reloading 45 acp, can't chamber a round

Andrewh · April 1, 2009, 12:24 PM

I am using a lee single stage press. I have this old lee die that says it is a 3 in one. You have to put the primer punch into it and use the bullet seater to hold it down. Take out the seater then take out the punch and set the seater again.
It also comes with a resizer that screws into the bottom of the die.

I set the seater and the crimp just above where it starts crunching brass with a big bulge. I did not use the resizer yet. I set the bullets in but when I attempt to chamber some of these, they don't fit.

So I attempted to use the resizer. When I do that, the bullets pull out part way. 230grain plated copper.

So I went the other way. Resized a few first, then put the bullet in. This time it bulges and still won't chamber.

I have not reloaded in nearly 10 years, and then I only did 40.

I remember using a crimp die to fix the 40 brass that wouldn't chamber, am I wrong to think the resizer is the same thing?

Am I doing it in the wrong order? Setting something wrong?

HiBC · April 1, 2009, 02:18 PM

I am unfamiliar with your die setup,and can't help much.

45ACP headspaces on the case mouth.If you are scraping bullet metal with the case mouth in seating,the bullet metal can interfere with chambering.

I suspect you are having trouble with the crimp.Your observation about crunching is a clue.

The heavy roll crimp that works for a revolver does not work out for a semi auto that headspaces on the case mouth.

I don't know if your press is 7/8 -14 threads,but if it is,get a lee factory crimp die,or,better yet,get a lee carbide 4 die set with a factory crimp die.It is not that much money.

Crimp as a seperate operation after seating,and shoot for .470 at the case mouth.( some calipers are good reload tools)

One other thing to check.

45 ACP bullets are 451-452,45 Colt bullets are .454 or so..45 Colt bullets would not be good in an ACP

**Unclenick** · April 1, 2009, 02:56 PM

That's a Lee Speed Die you are describing. Now discontinued, but I own a few I got for compactness for doing load workups at the range using the Lee Handtool. I don't recall having any trouble with it, but I haven't used mine for awhile and I'll have to pull one out and look to see if I can figure out what you are doing?

OK. Had a look. The loading sequence with them is a little different.

First, put the shell holder in the press ram and run it all the way up. Put the sizing ring in the die body with nothing else. Turn the die body and ring all the way down until it touches down on the shell holder.

Withdraw the press ram and put a fired case in the shell holder. Run the ram all the way up. Look for a crack of light between the shell holder and the sizing ring. If there is one, withdraw the ram and adjust the die body in about 1/8 of a turn, and run the ram all the way up and look again. Repeat until the crack of light disappears. Then, with the ram up and the case in the die, tighten the die locking ring/nut down with your fingers.

Size all your cases in that setup and set them aside.

Next, put the decapper/expander into the die body and screw the seater down on it until it is tight. Now try decapping a case. The press will not go all the way up. Instead, the case will stop when the decapping pin bottoms out. At the same time a slight straight expansion of the mouth case will occur. Just enough to let you start a bullet in.

Get all your sized cases and decap them all in this setup, running the ram up, and set them aside.

Next, remove the deacpper expander. Loosen the die body lock ring and back the die body out a little. Place one resized and decapped case in the shell holder and run the press ram all the way up. Turn the die body back in until you feel it touch down on the mouth of the case. That is the start of the crimp, but not yet crimping. Back it out half a turn. Once again use your fingers to tighten the die body locking ring/nut.

Put a bullet in your case and run the press ram all the way up. Hold the die to be sure it can't turn, and screw the bullet seater in until you feel it touch down on the tip of the bullet. Withdraw the case and bullet.

At this point you will want to prime all your cases and charge them with powder.

Still ensuring the die body doesn't turn, screw the seater in about half as far as you want the bullet to seat into the case. Put a primed and charged case in the shell holder and run the ram up. Withdraw it an examine how far in the bullet is? Keep adjusting the the seater and running the cartridge until the bullet is seated about a sixteenth of an inch taller than you actually want it.

Now loosen the locking ring/nut and turn the die in one full turn and tighten the ring again. This will turn the die half a turn past where crimping begins. Run the cartridge into the die one more time. It should finish seating the bullet and crimp it as well. If you don't feel you have enough crimp, turn the whole die body in further. If you feel you have too much, back it out again. In either case, you will have to readjust the seater to compensate. You will have to go back and forth between the die body and the seater adjustment until you get the combination of seating depth and crimp you want.

One of the flaws of this reloading die system is it does not flare the mouth of a case quite enough for some lead bullets, so you have to watch out for rings of shaved lead at the mouths of the finished rounds and scrape them off with a toothpick should you get them. (Alternately, you can get a separate expanding die. The Lyman Multi-expander die is a good one that covers several calibers. The Lee universal expander also works, but I prefer the Lyman flare profile. That is your choice, of course. The Lyman costs three times as much.)

Once you have the seating and crimping set up, you can do all the other operations (sizing and decapping) with the die in that position. It just makes sizing harder because it happens before the ram is all the way up where mechanical advantage of the press is best. Lubing the cases (even though you have a carbide sizing ring) will make that easier, too. Otherwise, you just have to use the die body in two different positions.

Though the tool is called a "speed" die, I don't find it faster than swapping out separate dies whose locking rings are pre-set. It is just lighter and more portable than lugging three or four full-size die bodies around.

Andrewh · April 1, 2009, 07:06 PM

Thanks for the instructions. I totally messed that up.
I now have to go back and deprime all my newly primed cases. If I continue to use this fast die.

I tried to run them through without resizing, but the don't chamber. After resizing, the bullets move out of the case. I then crimped them, but they still move.
The bonus is the crimp isn't uniform. It seems to only hit one side of the case.

Looks like I am going to pick up a set of regular dies instead of killing myself with this thing. I borrowed it to be sure I wanted to get back into this and found it was more trouble then it was worth. Just should have spent the 20 bucks on a new set from lee.

**Unclenick** · April 3, 2009, 02:54 PM

No need to de-prime. Run them back through the sizer again. Pick up a Lee Universal expander or the Lyman Multi-expander (my preference but more costly) and just flare your case mouths back out for accepting powder and bullet. I don't know why the crimp would be uneven? Is the die not coaxial with the press ram? You can always get a Lee Factory Crimp die if it's an issue.

At that point you should be fine, but one other thought occurs to me: Are you using R-P (Remington-Peters) brass? In .45 ACP in particular, that brand seems to have extra thin case mouths, or at least it did in the past. It also seems to be harder than some. The result is a springy case mouth that doesn't always keep its resized shape well enough to hang onto a bullet. I gave up on it years ago and use only Federal, Winchester, Starline, Top Brass, or military cases now.

ZeSpectre · April 3, 2009, 03:00 PM

Did you also check your COAL (overall length)? I have one .45 where the lands/grooves start slightly closer to the chamber, just enough that it interferes with some of my fatter bullets if I'm pushing the COAL length limit.

I have to seat those bullets just a hair deeper and everything runs fine.

impalacustom · April 3, 2009, 03:53 PM

as HiBC said you can't use a roll crimp on a cartridge that headspaces off the cartridge mouth. You need to get a taper crimp, sometimes you can get away without it but not often.

Resize your cartridge and see if it goes in your barrel. It should just drop in and fall out no problems.

Here are the steps I go through when I load my 45acp:
1. Size and deprime
2. Flare case mouth
3. Seat bullet (my COAL is 1.25)
4. Taper crimp (.469)

You may have to adjust your COAL to get them to feed just right once you get it going though.

RickV · April 3, 2009, 08:32 PM

I have had problems similar to yours but with Amerc brass only. I only throw this out there as a possiblity. My 1911 is fairly new but my brother-in-law can shoot the ones that won't chamber in my gun. His Colt 1911 is circa Korean War and has seen many 1000's of rounds. I have since gone thru all my 45 brass and pulled the Amerc ones.

FM12 · April 4, 2009, 10:30 AM

If you plan on reloading a lot, you need a three die set. Period.

**Unclenick** · April 4, 2009, 02:16 PM

Actually, you can roll crimp the .45 ACP. All the old timers shooting H&G 68's did and claimed it gave best accuracy. They'd just seat the bullet at least 0.020" past the crimp so the cartridge headspaced on the bullet instead of the case mouth (see my illustration in post number 4 of this thread; third item from left).

But do get the regular die set if the other is giving you trouble?

Andrewh · April 4, 2009, 09:11 PM

I just placed my order for the 4 die set from lee.
I can't resize with the 3 in one because the resize is part of the deprimer. Unlike a regular die set, the pin doesn't come out.

Thanks for all the help.

BTW just to answer a few questions.
It is all winchester brass with a few nickle plated ones from some sd ammo.
It is a new gun, so I expected the chamber to be a bit tight, but several of these jammed the gun. After going through the resizer, they all chambered fine.

Now just to wait for the regular die set so I can finish reloading.

wncchester · April 4, 2009, 10:13 PM

The Speed die is a good tool but you have to use it the right way. I loaded a couple hundred .38 spec. in mine yesterday.

Doesn't matter who's dies you use, got to size them cases before seating anything.

April 1, 2009, 12:24 PM	#1
Andrewh Senior Member Join Date: July 7, 1999 Posts: 966	reloading 45 acp, can't chamber a round I am using a lee single stage press. I have this old lee die that says it is a 3 in one. You have to put the primer punch into it and use the bullet seater to hold it down. Take out the seater then take out the punch and set the seater again. It also comes with a resizer that screws into the bottom of the die. I set the seater and the crimp just above where it starts crunching brass with a big bulge. I did not use the resizer yet. I set the bullets in but when I attempt to chamber some of these, they don't fit. So I attempted to use the resizer. When I do that, the bullets pull out part way. 230grain plated copper. So I went the other way. Resized a few first, then put the bullet in. This time it bulges and still won't chamber. I have not reloaded in nearly 10 years, and then I only did 40. I remember using a crimp die to fix the 40 brass that wouldn't chamber, am I wrong to think the resizer is the same thing? Am I doing it in the wrong order? Setting something wrong?

April 1, 2009, 02:56 PM	#3
Unclenick Staff Join Date: March 4, 2005 Location: Ohio Posts: 21,061	That's a Lee Speed Die you are describing. Now discontinued, but I own a few I got for compactness for doing load workups at the range using the Lee Handtool. I don't recall having any trouble with it, but I haven't used mine for awhile and I'll have to pull one out and look to see if I can figure out what you are doing? OK. Had a look. The loading sequence with them is a little different. First, put the shell holder in the press ram and run it all the way up. Put the sizing ring in the die body with nothing else. Turn the die body and ring all the way down until it touches down on the shell holder. Withdraw the press ram and put a fired case in the shell holder. Run the ram all the way up. Look for a crack of light between the shell holder and the sizing ring. If there is one, withdraw the ram and adjust the die body in about 1/8 of a turn, and run the ram all the way up and look again. Repeat until the crack of light disappears. Then, with the ram up and the case in the die, tighten the die locking ring/nut down with your fingers. Size all your cases in that setup and set them aside. Next, put the decapper/expander into the die body and screw the seater down on it until it is tight. Now try decapping a case. The press will not go all the way up. Instead, the case will stop when the decapping pin bottoms out. At the same time a slight straight expansion of the mouth case will occur. Just enough to let you start a bullet in. Get all your sized cases and decap them all in this setup, running the ram up, and set them aside. Next, remove the deacpper expander. Loosen the die body lock ring and back the die body out a little. Place one resized and decapped case in the shell holder and run the press ram all the way up. Turn the die body back in until you feel it touch down on the mouth of the case. That is the start of the crimp, but not yet crimping. Back it out half a turn. Once again use your fingers to tighten the die body locking ring/nut. Put a bullet in your case and run the press ram all the way up. Hold the die to be sure it can't turn, and screw the bullet seater in until you feel it touch down on the tip of the bullet. Withdraw the case and bullet. At this point you will want to prime all your cases and charge them with powder. Still ensuring the die body doesn't turn, screw the seater in about half as far as you want the bullet to seat into the case. Put a primed and charged case in the shell holder and run the ram up. Withdraw it an examine how far in the bullet is? Keep adjusting the the seater and running the cartridge until the bullet is seated about a sixteenth of an inch taller than you actually want it. Now loosen the locking ring/nut and turn the die in one full turn and tighten the ring again. This will turn the die half a turn past where crimping begins. Run the cartridge into the die one more time. It should finish seating the bullet and crimp it as well. If you don't feel you have enough crimp, turn the whole die body in further. If you feel you have too much, back it out again. In either case, you will have to readjust the seater to compensate. You will have to go back and forth between the die body and the seater adjustment until you get the combination of seating depth and crimp you want. One of the flaws of this reloading die system is it does not flare the mouth of a case quite enough for some lead bullets, so you have to watch out for rings of shaved lead at the mouths of the finished rounds and scrape them off with a toothpick should you get them. (Alternately, you can get a separate expanding die. The Lyman Multi-expander die is a good one that covers several calibers. The Lee universal expander also works, but I prefer the Lyman flare profile. That is your choice, of course. The Lyman costs three times as much.) Once you have the seating and crimping set up, you can do all the other operations (sizing and decapping) with the die in that position. It just makes sizing harder because it happens before the ram is all the way up where mechanical advantage of the press is best. Lubing the cases (even though you have a carbide sizing ring) will make that easier, too. Otherwise, you just have to use the die body in two different positions. Though the tool is called a "speed" die, I don't find it faster than swapping out separate dies whose locking rings are pre-set. It is just lighter and more portable than lugging three or four full-size die bodies around. __________________ Gunsite Orange Hat Family Member CMP Certified GSM Master Instructor NRA Certified Rifle Instructor NRA Benefactor Member and Golden Eagle

April 3, 2009, 02:54 PM	#5
Unclenick Staff Join Date: March 4, 2005 Location: Ohio Posts: 21,061	No need to de-prime. Run them back through the sizer again. Pick up a Lee Universal expander or the Lyman Multi-expander (my preference but more costly) and just flare your case mouths back out for accepting powder and bullet. I don't know why the crimp would be uneven? Is the die not coaxial with the press ram? You can always get a Lee Factory Crimp die if it's an issue. At that point you should be fine, but one other thought occurs to me: Are you using R-P (Remington-Peters) brass? In .45 ACP in particular, that brand seems to have extra thin case mouths, or at least it did in the past. It also seems to be harder than some. The result is a springy case mouth that doesn't always keep its resized shape well enough to hang onto a bullet. I gave up on it years ago and use only Federal, Winchester, Starline, Top Brass, or military cases now. __________________ Gunsite Orange Hat Family Member CMP Certified GSM Master Instructor NRA Certified Rifle Instructor NRA Benefactor Member and Golden Eagle

April 4, 2009, 02:16 PM	#10
Unclenick Staff Join Date: March 4, 2005 Location: Ohio Posts: 21,061	Actually, you can roll crimp the .45 ACP. All the old timers shooting H&G 68's did and claimed it gave best accuracy. They'd just seat the bullet at least 0.020" past the crimp so the cartridge headspaced on the bullet instead of the case mouth (see my illustration in post number 4 of this thread; third item from left). But do get the regular die set if the other is giving you trouble? __________________ Gunsite Orange Hat Family Member CMP Certified GSM Master Instructor NRA Certified Rifle Instructor NRA Benefactor Member and Golden Eagle

April 1, 2009, 02:18 PM	#2
HiBC Senior Member Join Date: November 13, 2006 Posts: 8,283	I am unfamiliar with your die setup,and can't help much. 45ACP headspaces on the case mouth.If you are scraping bullet metal with the case mouth in seating,the bullet metal can interfere with chambering. I suspect you are having trouble with the crimp.Your observation about crunching is a clue. The heavy roll crimp that works for a revolver does not work out for a semi auto that headspaces on the case mouth. I don't know if your press is 7/8 -14 threads,but if it is,get a lee factory crimp die,or,better yet,get a lee carbide 4 die set with a factory crimp die.It is not that much money. Crimp as a seperate operation after seating,and shoot for .470 at the case mouth.( some calipers are good reload tools) One other thing to check. 45 ACP bullets are 451-452,45 Colt bullets are .454 or so..45 Colt bullets would not be good in an ACP

April 1, 2009, 07:06 PM	#4
Andrewh Senior Member Join Date: July 7, 1999 Posts: 966	Thanks for the instructions. I totally messed that up. I now have to go back and deprime all my newly primed cases. If I continue to use this fast die. I tried to run them through without resizing, but the don't chamber. After resizing, the bullets move out of the case. I then crimped them, but they still move. The bonus is the crimp isn't uniform. It seems to only hit one side of the case. Looks like I am going to pick up a set of regular dies instead of killing myself with this thing. I borrowed it to be sure I wanted to get back into this and found it was more trouble then it was worth. Just should have spent the 20 bucks on a new set from lee.

April 3, 2009, 03:00 PM	#6
ZeSpectre Senior Member Join Date: June 4, 2007 Location: Shenandoah Valley Posts: 3,276	Did you also check your COAL (overall length)? I have one .45 where the lands/grooves start slightly closer to the chamber, just enough that it interferes with some of my fatter bullets if I'm pushing the COAL length limit. I have to seat those bullets just a hair deeper and everything runs fine.

April 3, 2009, 03:53 PM	#7
impalacustom Senior Member Join Date: January 26, 2009 Posts: 492	as HiBC said you can't use a roll crimp on a cartridge that headspaces off the cartridge mouth. You need to get a taper crimp, sometimes you can get away without it but not often. Resize your cartridge and see if it goes in your barrel. It should just drop in and fall out no problems. Here are the steps I go through when I load my 45acp: 1. Size and deprime 2. Flare case mouth 3. Seat bullet (my COAL is 1.25) 4. Taper crimp (.469) You may have to adjust your COAL to get them to feed just right once you get it going though.

April 3, 2009, 08:32 PM	#8
RickV Senior Member Join Date: November 7, 2008 Location: North Florida Posts: 172	I have had problems similar to yours but with Amerc brass only. I only throw this out there as a possiblity. My 1911 is fairly new but my brother-in-law can shoot the ones that won't chamber in my gun. His Colt 1911 is circa Korean War and has seen many 1000's of rounds. I have since gone thru all my 45 brass and pulled the Amerc ones.

April 4, 2009, 10:30 AM	#9
FM12 Senior Member Join Date: February 5, 2007 Location: Monroeville, Alabama Posts: 1,683	If you plan on reloading a lot, you need a three die set. Period.

April 4, 2009, 09:11 PM	#11
Andrewh Senior Member Join Date: July 7, 1999 Posts: 966	I just placed my order for the 4 die set from lee. I can't resize with the 3 in one because the resize is part of the deprimer. Unlike a regular die set, the pin doesn't come out. Thanks for all the help. BTW just to answer a few questions. It is all winchester brass with a few nickle plated ones from some sd ammo. It is a new gun, so I expected the chamber to be a bit tight, but several of these jammed the gun. After going through the resizer, they all chambered fine. Now just to wait for the regular die set so I can finish reloading.

April 4, 2009, 10:13 PM	#12
wncchester Senior Member Join Date: December 1, 2002 Posts: 2,832	The Speed die is a good tool but you have to use it the right way. I loaded a couple hundred .38 spec. in mine yesterday. Doesn't matter who's dies you use, got to size them cases before seating anything.