Can't Hit The Broad Side of A Barn

Wingsy · January 6, 2013, 03:51 PM

It's not THAT bad, but...

I recently got a Savage 93R17 CAMO. Using Hornaday 17Gr ammo I took it out to my property in the country, set up some targets, and got busy setting up the scope (BSA 4-9x50, what came on the rifle). By the end of the day I was putting 5 rounds inside a 1.5in circle and drilling holes in quarters (@ 100yds).

It all went downhill from there.

Trying to get a feel for wind drift on a windy day was hopeless. They were all over the place. Then I had a calm day and they were STILL all over the place but somewhat better. Nothing like my first day. Junky scope I thought, so I got a BSA Sweet17 (6-18x40). Tried setting it up yesterday, and winds were dead calm. Best I could get was a 4in group of 5 at 100yds. AO set to 100yds, good focus, turret at 100 (after calibrating the turret, more or less), and windage at 0 (after calibrating that too, more or less). For example, I would get maybe 3 rounds in a fairly tight group 2in to the right, then click in 3 clicks to the left and get the next 3 rounds 2in to the left... go back to where I was before and still get 3 more rounds to the left. It was like that all day yesterday. I kept fiddling with it until I was all over the bulls eye but still not better than a 4in group. So I moved out to 200yds, dialed in 200yds on the turret and AO and do 5 rounds. Didn't hit the target AT ALL (I think the target is about 10in square.)

I have the rifle set up on sand bags so I'm pretty sure it's stable when I fire. But what could be causing me to have lost that Annie Oakley feeling? I was happy with myself on day one but now I'm shooting like I'm half blind with a nervous twitch. Suggestions welcome.

big al hunter · January 6, 2013, 04:11 PM

You have a 17 hmr, I assume.

I would equate shooting a 17 hmr at 200 yards to shooting a 308 win at 1000yards. Wind and trajectory make that a very long shot for a 17.

Practice at 75 yards, long shot at 150 yards. If you want to shoot at 200 work your way out with targets at 25 yard increments to see where it hits, and adjust the scope. (Maybe wait for a no wind day)

Ralph Allen · January 6, 2013, 06:45 PM

Try a different brand of scope.
Ralph

bacardisteve · January 6, 2013, 07:17 PM

I have the same gun and found that the stock sucked bad. It would shoot a little diffrent depending on where i held it or how far forward it rested on the sandbags. The action screw also use to come loose easily. I put a boyds stock on it and now it shoots amazing. Well worth the $125 for the stock and a new trigger guard.

Wingsy · January 6, 2013, 07:17 PM

I dunno Al. A 308 drops about 4in at 200yds and an HMR17 drops 8in. (100yd zero) I'd take a shot at 200yds with an HMR17 and feel more confident about it than a 308 at 300 (15in drop). Well... except for my present situation that is.

I'll take your advice and try again at 25yd increments and see if I can tell where things fall apart. Thanks. But I'm still concerned about why I'm such a lousy shot compared to my first few days with the 17.

bacardisteve · January 6, 2013, 08:59 PM

Forget to mention this but if your using the winchester ammo ive had bad results with it. Ive heard cci loadsfor the other manufacturers but for my 17 it really hates winchester ammo.

Mobuck · January 6, 2013, 09:03 PM

Was all the ammo from the same lot? My Ruger was shooting cloverleaf groups with a certain lot and 1.5" groups with another lot. I switched to a different brand and went back to 1/2" groups. Now I have to go back and check each lot until I segregate the "good" and "bad" lots. We shot 5 brands/bullet types through Son's Ruger and got groups from 1/2" to 2"-same rifle and distance.
BTW your reference to the drop of the 17HMR @200 yards compared to 308 is incorrect.
My info indicates all 17HMR ammo is made in the same plant(even Winchester).

Wingsy · January 6, 2013, 09:03 PM

Steve - you are so right! I tried a box of Winchester and after half a box through the barrel I threw the rest away. It seemed that every shot I took was a flyer. I've been using Hornaday ammo. Tried a box of CCI and it seemed Hornaday produced tighter groups. Was a close call though.

Buffalo444 · January 6, 2013, 09:05 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Wingsy

I dunno Al. A 308 drops about 4in at 200yds and an HMR17 drops 8in. (100yd zero) I'd take a shot at 200yds with an HMR17 and feel more confident about it than a 308 at 300 (15in drop). Well... except for my present situation that is.

I'll take your advice and try again at 25yd increments and see if I can tell where things fall apart. Thanks. But I'm still concerned about why I'm such a lousy shot compared to my first few days with the 17.

He's not refering to the drop so much as he is refering to the light bullet getting blown around.

sent from the rust monster

bacardisteve · January 6, 2013, 09:07 PM

Yeah 17hmr sucks big time in wind. Even a 2mph breeze will cause 3" of drift at 200.

Wingsy · January 6, 2013, 09:08 PM

Mobuck - I got the 308 data from here:
http://www.ultimatesniper.com/Docs/38.PDF

And the 17 data from here:
http://www.varmintal.com/17hmr.htm

big al hunter · January 7, 2013, 12:03 AM

Yep, wind and light bullets=

Metal god · January 7, 2013, 01:36 AM

My ballistic calculator says the Hornady 17gr 17hmr bullet will drop 8-1/2" @ 200yds

A 308 168gr will drop 4-1/2 " @ 200yds .

Bullet drop is not the issue it is a constant . you can compensate for it with a scope adjustment . It's the wind that separates the men from the boys because it always is changing and is never a constant .

I do not own a 17hmr but what I here is there really only good to about 150yds and best no more then 100yds . Thats has to do with the weight and BC .

This is the data/specs on the Hornady 17gr 17HMR http://www.hornady.com/store/17hmr-17gr-vmax/

Here is a link to a calculator http://www.hornady.com/ballistics-re...ics-calculator

January 6, 2013, 03:51 PM	#1
Wingsy Junior Member Join Date: January 5, 2013 Location: Mocksville, NC Posts: 4	Can't Hit The Broad Side of A Barn It's not THAT bad, but... I recently got a Savage 93R17 CAMO. Using Hornaday 17Gr ammo I took it out to my property in the country, set up some targets, and got busy setting up the scope (BSA 4-9x50, what came on the rifle). By the end of the day I was putting 5 rounds inside a 1.5in circle and drilling holes in quarters (@ 100yds). It all went downhill from there. Trying to get a feel for wind drift on a windy day was hopeless. They were all over the place. Then I had a calm day and they were STILL all over the place but somewhat better. Nothing like my first day. Junky scope I thought, so I got a BSA Sweet17 (6-18x40). Tried setting it up yesterday, and winds were dead calm. Best I could get was a 4in group of 5 at 100yds. AO set to 100yds, good focus, turret at 100 (after calibrating the turret, more or less), and windage at 0 (after calibrating that too, more or less). For example, I would get maybe 3 rounds in a fairly tight group 2in to the right, then click in 3 clicks to the left and get the next 3 rounds 2in to the left... go back to where I was before and still get 3 more rounds to the left. It was like that all day yesterday. I kept fiddling with it until I was all over the bulls eye but still not better than a 4in group. So I moved out to 200yds, dialed in 200yds on the turret and AO and do 5 rounds. Didn't hit the target AT ALL (I think the target is about 10in square.) I have the rifle set up on sand bags so I'm pretty sure it's stable when I fire. But what could be causing me to have lost that Annie Oakley feeling? I was happy with myself on day one but now I'm shooting like I'm half blind with a nervous twitch. Suggestions welcome.

January 6, 2013, 04:11 PM	#2
big al hunter Senior Member Join Date: March 12, 2011 Location: Washington state Posts: 1,558	You have a 17 hmr, I assume. I would equate shooting a 17 hmr at 200 yards to shooting a 308 win at 1000yards. Wind and trajectory make that a very long shot for a 17. Practice at 75 yards, long shot at 150 yards. If you want to shoot at 200 work your way out with targets at 25 yard increments to see where it hits, and adjust the scope. (Maybe wait for a no wind day) __________________ You can't fix stupid....however ignorance can be cured through education!

January 6, 2013, 07:17 PM	#4
bacardisteve Senior Member Join Date: September 5, 2006 Location: West virginia Posts: 653	I have the same gun and found that the stock sucked bad. It would shoot a little diffrent depending on where i held it or how far forward it rested on the sandbags. The action screw also use to come loose easily. I put a boyds stock on it and now it shoots amazing. Well worth the $125 for the stock and a new trigger guard. __________________ Kill em all and let God sort em out! USAF

January 6, 2013, 08:59 PM	#6
bacardisteve Senior Member Join Date: September 5, 2006 Location: West virginia Posts: 653	Forget to mention this but if your using the winchester ammo ive had bad results with it. Ive heard cci loadsfor the other manufacturers but for my 17 it really hates winchester ammo. __________________ Kill em all and let God sort em out! USAF

January 6, 2013, 09:07 PM	#10
bacardisteve Senior Member Join Date: September 5, 2006 Location: West virginia Posts: 653	Yeah 17hmr sucks big time in wind. Even a 2mph breeze will cause 3" of drift at 200. __________________ Kill em all and let God sort em out! USAF

January 6, 2013, 06:45 PM	#3
Ralph Allen Senior Member Join Date: January 21, 2007 Posts: 436	Try a different brand of scope. Ralph

January 6, 2013, 09:03 PM	#7
Mobuck Junior member Join Date: February 2, 2010 Posts: 6,846	Was all the ammo from the same lot? My Ruger was shooting cloverleaf groups with a certain lot and 1.5" groups with another lot. I switched to a different brand and went back to 1/2" groups. Now I have to go back and check each lot until I segregate the "good" and "bad" lots. We shot 5 brands/bullet types through Son's Ruger and got groups from 1/2" to 2"-same rifle and distance. BTW your reference to the drop of the 17HMR @200 yards compared to 308 is incorrect. My info indicates all 17HMR ammo is made in the same plant(even Winchester).

January 6, 2013, 09:08 PM	#11
Wingsy Junior Member Join Date: January 5, 2013 Location: Mocksville, NC Posts: 4	Mobuck - I got the 308 data from here: http://www.ultimatesniper.com/Docs/38.PDF And the 17 data from here: http://www.varmintal.com/17hmr.htm

January 7, 2013, 12:03 AM	#12
big al hunter Senior Member Join Date: March 12, 2011 Location: Washington state Posts: 1,558	Yep, wind and light bullets= __________________ You can't fix stupid....however ignorance can be cured through education!

January 7, 2013, 01:36 AM	#13
Metal god Senior Member Join Date: April 10, 2012 Location: San Diego CA Posts: 6,875	My ballistic calculator says the Hornady 17gr 17hmr bullet will drop 8-1/2" @ 200yds A 308 168gr will drop 4-1/2 " @ 200yds . Bullet drop is not the issue it is a constant . you can compensate for it with a scope adjustment . It's the wind that separates the men from the boys because it always is changing and is never a constant . I do not own a 17hmr but what I here is there really only good to about 150yds and best no more then 100yds . Thats has to do with the weight and BC . This is the data/specs on the Hornady 17gr 17HMR http://www.hornady.com/store/17hmr-17gr-vmax/ Here is a link to a calculator http://www.hornady.com/ballistics-re...ics-calculator __________________ If Jesus had a gun , he'd probably still be alive ! I almost always write my posts regardless of content in a jovial manor and intent . If that's not how you took it , please try again .