I want to shoot 1000 yards

[loic]

There is no need for a magnum cartridge, sorry. Group need to be a lot smaller than human size target at 300 to even think hitting 1k. First be consistent with a tight group at 100, then move down.

[Bart B.]

Note the .223 Rem has fallen out of popularity at 1000 yard matches as the .308 Win produces higher scores. Which is why the US Army team got the NRA to allow AR10's in service rifle matches to shoot as good as M1 and M1A service rifles at long range.

When good 30 caliber match bullets were available in the 1960's, Win. 70 actions were fitted with good barrels, epoxy bedded in cheap wood stocks then shot decent ammo inside 6 to 7 inches at 1000 yards in accuracy tests. Nothing is any better today. But the ignorant and marketing hypesters will try to convince people otherwise. And nothing is better than a Weaver T24, even if it's got 1/4 MOA slop in its adjustments, for optics.

I'd get a .308 to start with. Very accurate, excellent factory ammo, easy to reload for and 3000 rounds of accurate barrel life. While 28, 26 and 24 calibers are a bit easier to shoot accurately, consider the .243 Win's 1500 round barrel life and the 6.5x.284's barrel lasting 900 rounds at most.

[jglsprings]

deleted...

[DaleA]

Everything you need to know about 1000
yard shooting.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wqgSS...eature=related

Tabing - thank you multiple times for this. I have been looking for this for a long long time and exhausted my google-fu trying to find it in the past. I WILL save the location away. Thanks again.

[TABING]

It's a classic and oh, so, appropo!

[raimius]

I'd go for a decent bolt-action rifle in a cartridge you can afford. For most trying for 1000, that's probably .308, .30-06', or something like that. Learn on cheap ammo, until you are maxing out the capability of the ammo/rifle combo, then go to match ammo to see how well you can do. If you are practicing at 100 or 200 yards, you don't need to be blasting away with $2/shot match ammo.

.223 can do it too, but the cartridge starts getting a little iffy past 800-900 yards, in many cases. (Certainly not impossible, as some people are taking it well past 1000yds accurately!)

[loic]

Originally Posted by raimius

I'd go for a decent bolt-action rifle in a cartridge you can afford. For most trying for 1000, that's probably .308, .30-06', or something like that. Learn on cheap ammo, until you are maxing out the capability of the ammo/rifle combo, then go to match ammo to see how well you can do. If you are practicing at 100 or 200 yards, you don't need to be blasting away with $2/shot match ammo.

.223 can do it too, but the cartridge starts getting a little iffy past 800-900 yards, in many cases. (Certainly not impossible, as some people are taking it well past 1000yds accurately!)

I tend to disagree for the cheap ammo part, in my opinion, using cheap ammo to learn is not a good idea. I have use cheap ammo before I started reloading and they were all over the place. I dont think you can learn and correct your mistakes this way. Shooting at 100 or 200 yards correctly (sub moa) and consistently is definetly not a waste of time or a waste of ammo.
On this picture,


5 shot group at 100, you can see the flier on top, almost 100% chance I screwed up, the bottom right I realy believe it is my ammo. While reloading the night before I notice that some case neck tension were "loose" I reloaded them anyway. Next time I found some with loose neck tension I will mark them and try on the side to see if I can confirm my thinking.

To go back to "cheap" ammo, last monday I went back to try at 1k yards with my 22-250, then I took my ar and try again with it. I was using federal 62 gr ( I actually need a much heavier bullet, my twist rate is 1-7) there was no wind at all, my hits were all over the place, some close to the target, few hit and some more that 8 feet away to the right, left, top etc... yeas I will miss my target at that distance because I am not that good and still have a lot to learn but at the same time I will not miss by 8 feet.

[overthere]

I would consider shooting a 62 grain bullet at 1000 yards an exercise in futility. I was not able to find a 62 grain federal bullet but with a 60 grain v-max, you would need a muzzle velocity of 4300 ft/s to stay supersonic to 1000 (at 80 F), and then it would just barely be supersonic. A 62 grain bullet would need slightly lower muzzle velocity but it is probably more than a 22-250 can muster.

A .224 69 grain SMK would require a muzzle velocity of 3700 ft / s to stay supersonic to 1000. A tall order in most cartridges.

It is difficult to get .224 bullets to the velocities required for 1000 yards with 223 and 22-250. If you can stabilize them, Bergers 90 gr VLDs in .224 require 'only' 2400 ft/s to stay supersonic to 1000 (and again, that is just barely supersonic).

[loic]

Tge 62 gr bullet was shot with my ar.
With the 22-250 im shooting 55 gr nosler with 34.8 of varget.
I use to shoot the vmax 55 gr (in the begining that rifle was for varmint but i am been caught up in something else now...lol) the vmax are ok but fir my rifle, tge most accurate load I could get with them using varget was/is 36 gr of powder with an average of 3940 fps which is faster that I want. I still load and shoot them but now im liading the nosler that I like better for this rifle.

[Bart B.]

I agree with loic about using cheap ammo to learn marksmanship; especially at longer ranges.

If you call a shot dead center and it's way out in left field, how do you know what put that shot there?

If you you use good stuff (rifle and ammo) and do that, every shot called dead center will be way out there at the same place in left field.

If you use bad stuff, you can call several shots all over the target and they'll all land in the center; sometimes. When that happens, you'll think your a world class marksman. For a while, anyway, until you call a bunch of shots all over the target and some of them don't even hit it.

[overthere]

Tge 62 gr bullet was shot with my ar.

Yeah, that is going to be rough at 1000 yards. Shooting at any distance, staying supersonic to the target is important because the bullet trajectory destabilizes a lot going from supersonic to subsonic.

This is why lower velocity accuracy loads that do great at 600 might do much less well at 1000, especially in cartridges such as 223 and 308.

A great site to use to predict whether your loads will work at all at 1000 yards (or any other distance) is http://www.jbmballistics.com/ballist...culators.shtml

Use the trajectory calculator, find the bullet you are using in the top dropdown, specify the muzzle velocity, enter the temperature and humidity (can make quite a difference) and any other relevant information.

Click Calculate and look in the 'mach' column for 1000 yards. If greater than 1, the load might do OK at 1000. If it is less than 1 it will most likely do very poorly. Ideally you will want to be mach 1.2 or higher at 1000 and you will see it is not necessarily easy with a 308 and very difficult with a 223.

The calculator will give a lot of other very good information too, such as how to dial your scope from one distance to another, both elevation and windage.

[jolly1]

What would be recommended scope, in price range up to 1500 usd, for shooting up to 600 yards?

Also, what kind of mounts to be fitted on piccatiny rail - meaning, for this range does the scope mount should be inclined 1 moa, or similar - or this is not necessary at all, having in mind suggested scope?

[loic]

I dont remember which rail I have on my rifle, but as far as scope, I use my hunting scope without problems at 600 and can see the 10 inch plate at a 1000 yards. My scope is a redfield revenge 6-18x44 . Now when I can afford it, I will get a vortex pst 6-24 x50 ffp

[loic]

Oh and on my ar I have a vortex viper 4-16 x50 ( o thonk its a 50...lol) and no problem also with that one

My point is that yes a high end scope is nice but you can do without it

[jehu]

Well you've had BUBBA tell you it can be done with everything from a BB gun to a 338 lapua, I still recommend the Lapua and I do it almost everyday.

[Tucker 1371]

Jehu, Lapua is EXPENSIVE, both rifle and ammunition. Heck I've seen a video of a Mosin 91/30 shooting 1000 yards, for a beginner I'd choose that over a .338 Lapua, practice is key and expensive ammo makes high volume practice out of most shooters' financial reach. I personally would opt for a decent .308 bolt action, factory loaded practice ammo can be had at 1/6th the price of .338

No one is arguing that, all else being equal, .338 is one of the best 1000 yard rounds. It's just not great on a budget.

[4runnerman]

Tucker,Jehu.. 338 Lapua- It is a great 1000 yard round for hunting. As for accuracy there are to many other,Much Cheaper to load and shoot rounds out there. I know of no one that shoots target comp with a 338. I had the pleasure of shooting the Savage 338 Lapua last year,Now while it was very fun to shoot and darn Accurate, If you are just punching paper it is not the caliber to get. To many other,better and more accurate calibers to choose from.

[Bart B.]

To those coveting the 33 caliber magnums for long range accuracy, consider the test the US military conducted a few years ago with top ranked long range competitors testing several cartridges for first shot and long string accuracy when fired off ones shoulder.

The .300 Win Mag performed the best through 1500 yards range.

The .338 Lap Mag was not so good.

Why? With rifles of equal weight, the .300 ones will move less in recoil while the bullet goes down the barrel. That means the muzzle axis will move less off where it was pointed when the primer started the powder burning. In calm conditions with equal quality marksmanship and rifle/ammo accuracy, a .308 Winchester will shoot smaller groups than any 30 caliber or larger magnum when hand held against the shooter's shoulder.

Even with near 3 times as long for bullets to leave the barrel, .22 rimfire match rifles produce smaller groups shot from prone with less accurate ammo than any centerfire rifle because they move the least while the bullet goes down the barrel. And the shooter has to hold still 3 times as long after the round fires for that to happen. It's all because us humans don't position the rifle exactly the same to our bodies for each shot; we're the least repeatable part of the system.

[psalm7]

.338 Lap would be neat to have but over my budget . From what I have studied the .300 Win Mag rules the 1000 yard ranges . Except in Palma wich I know very little about . I enjoy my .300 WM it shoots a easy 1/2 at 100 and is heavy enough that recoil is not bad .

[Bart B.]

Psalm7, 26 caliber cartridges (6.5x .284) have been the favorite for 1000 yard prone matches since the late 1990's. And both 26 and 24 caliber 1000 yard benchrest rifles bring home most of the marbles in that discipline.

Palma rifles around the world have to use the .308 Win cartridge with 150 to 155 gr. bullets as established by the International Palma Committee for international matches. The exception in the USA NRA rules is that sometimes the .223 Rem cartridge can be used in some matches not limited to only the .308 Win which typically allows any bullet weight.

[jehu]

Thankyou for that info Bart. I have a TRG 42 in 300WM and a TRG 42 in 338 Lapua. I am shooting both supressed which takes much of the recoil out and makes both a pleasure to shoot.Also always rested never off hand.

[603Country]

Let's not forget that the OP is new to all of this. He doesn't need a magnum anything. I'll again say that 223 is a good place to start. He isn't likely to win any big trophies with it, but he'll sure learn to shoot at distance with it and not develop a flinch. I wouldn't start a newbie with a 308. Maybe a 260 or one of the clones would be even better than the 223, but for that he'd really need to reload.

Then he can start reloading and use Varget, which you can't get enough of in the case to blow it up. Personally, I can't get enough of it in the case to be happy using it, since I shoot light bullets generally (hunting and paper punching).;

[loic]

I have only 1/2 lb left of varget... cant find it anywhere

[Unlicensed Dremel]

OK, those youtube vids are just wrong. Yet hilarious. Did you see all the other similar ones? Tee hee.

[raimius]

Ioic, my issue for a beginner is getting a good volume of practice. If you can shoot cheaper ammo for 1/4 the price, you can fire 4x the ammo on the same budget. Now, at a certain point, you need to move up to match-grade. However, until you get to the point of shooting better than an average service rifle/service ammo combination, non-match ammo/rifle doesn't hurt you that much.