Trigger job gone bad! 1991 won't fire.

VaughnT · November 29, 2002, 03:41 PM

Well, it would figure that after bragging on my "smithing" skills, a trip to the range would show my handiwork to be full naught.

All I did was replace a junky trigger with a nice Infinity two-piece trigger. An hour of fine filing and the trigger slid smoothly in the track. The sear seemed to move enough to disengage from the hammer.

Load some live ammo, good stuff known to work, aim, pull the trigger. No boom. The hammer falls all the way forward like it always did, but now it doesn't do anything.

I started thinking of what I might have done and backed the setscrew off a few turns. Tried to fire her again with no luck. The hammer is falling, but either it's catching on the "half-cock" notch and not touching the FP or the FP isn't moving.

If the FP isn't moving, this would lead one to believe that the S80 FP safety isn't disengaging. This is possible because the trigger bow has a small ball-bearing pressed into the rear so there is minimum contact between the bow and the disconnector. If the difference in heights, literally a millimeter, great enough, it is entirely possible, to my poor understanding, that the sear is letting the hammer go, but the FP safety lever isn't yet flipped free. Thus, the hammer falls and hits a blocked FP. No boom.

Are there any other possibilities? I tried a new Main spring, but nothing worked until I replaced the new trigger with the old. Then she ran like a champ.

I'm standing by for your assistance.

Jim Watson · November 29, 2002, 06:22 PM

Tke the firing pin block out of the slide and try it.
The S80 system pretty much depends on overtravel to disengage.

James K · November 29, 2002, 11:00 PM

Jim W. is right. The Series 80 guns operate the firing pin safety off the trigger bow, through a double lever system. Either you failed to put the parts back in correctly, or your trigger bow is not pressing the bottom lever far enough.

Alas, some things are not as simple as they seem.

Jim

VaughnT · November 30, 2002, 08:35 PM

Gentlemen, you couldn't be more correct. Advise from the 1911forum concurs with yours and I get to be mightily embarrassed.

I would like to ask if you've ever heard of a National Match lever that is designed to maximize lift through a different design. Mr. Bettendorf, from the 1911forum, made mention of them, but didn't say who makes them or where they can be had from. I've certainly never noted one in any of the catalogs and would like to get one to go with the new hammer/sear/disconnector I'm looking to put in.

Sure do wish it was simpler.

Old Fuff · November 30, 2002, 09:54 PM

>> Sure do wish it was simpler. <<

It would be if you'd bought a Colt Series 70 or earlier. These guns were made the way John Browning designed it. The Series 80 firing pin block was designed for lawyers. If the levers were made oversized and individually fitted the system would probably work better, but Colt wanted something that wouldn't require fitting. "Drop-in" doesn't always work.

clem · November 30, 2002, 10:19 PM

Take a look at "Brownell's". I seem to recall they had a match replacement firing pin lock out, set-up for the 80s guns.

Good luck.

VaughnT · December 1, 2002, 12:04 PM

Old Fluff, you're right. If the job didn't insist on the S80, I would have had the much simpler S70 on my hip. No doubt.

As it is, I'm stuck trying to get a crisp break on an S80 trigger that demands overtravel.

Clem, I'll check brownell's again, but I didn't see anything on their website or the last catalog. Maybe I'm just not looking in the right place.

clem · December 1, 2002, 12:33 PM

VaughnT,

Take a look in catalog #55, page #92 Item "C&S 1911 Auto Series 80 TRIGGER PULL REDUCTION KIT" #206-080-000.

Maybe this can help you out with the problem.

Good luck...

clem · December 5, 2002, 09:33 PM

Hey VaughnT!

Was that what you needed?

The item in catalog #55?

VaughnT · December 6, 2002, 07:01 PM

That's what I'm talking about. The picture really doesn't do it justice. A quick note off to Cylinder and Slide got this response:

Sir,

You will need to buy one of our S80 trigger pull kits. Part # CS003. Cost $46.00. This should eliminate your problem. This will give you a plunger lever that will lift the S80 firing pin block quicker.

Thanks

Pat

I dropped the weapon off at AmmoPlus in Anderson SC and will see what he does with the trigger. Skip said that he would put in a glass-rod break in my trigger, but how he's going to do it is a mystery. I'll report back when I have the weapon in hand. Should be here by the end of next week.

November 29, 2002, 03:41 PM	#1
VaughnT Senior Member Join Date: May 30, 2000 Location: Western SC Posts: 663	Trigger job gone bad! 1991 won't fire. Well, it would figure that after bragging on my "smithing" skills, a trip to the range would show my handiwork to be full naught. All I did was replace a junky trigger with a nice Infinity two-piece trigger. An hour of fine filing and the trigger slid smoothly in the track. The sear seemed to move enough to disengage from the hammer. Load some live ammo, good stuff known to work, aim, pull the trigger. No boom. The hammer falls all the way forward like it always did, but now it doesn't do anything. I started thinking of what I might have done and backed the setscrew off a few turns. Tried to fire her again with no luck. The hammer is falling, but either it's catching on the "half-cock" notch and not touching the FP or the FP isn't moving. If the FP isn't moving, this would lead one to believe that the S80 FP safety isn't disengaging. This is possible because the trigger bow has a small ball-bearing pressed into the rear so there is minimum contact between the bow and the disconnector. If the difference in heights, literally a millimeter, great enough, it is entirely possible, to my poor understanding, that the sear is letting the hammer go, but the FP safety lever isn't yet flipped free. Thus, the hammer falls and hits a blocked FP. No boom. Are there any other possibilities? I tried a new Main spring, but nothing worked until I replaced the new trigger with the old. Then she ran like a champ. I'm standing by for your assistance. __________________ When Reason Fails.....

November 30, 2002, 08:35 PM	#4
VaughnT Senior Member Join Date: May 30, 2000 Location: Western SC Posts: 663	Gentlemen, you couldn't be more correct. Advise from the 1911forum concurs with yours and I get to be mightily embarrassed. I would like to ask if you've ever heard of a National Match lever that is designed to maximize lift through a different design. Mr. Bettendorf, from the 1911forum, made mention of them, but didn't say who makes them or where they can be had from. I've certainly never noted one in any of the catalogs and would like to get one to go with the new hammer/sear/disconnector I'm looking to put in. Sure do wish it was simpler. __________________ When Reason Fails.....

December 1, 2002, 12:04 PM	#7
VaughnT Senior Member Join Date: May 30, 2000 Location: Western SC Posts: 663	Old Fluff, you're right. If the job didn't insist on the S80, I would have had the much simpler S70 on my hip. No doubt. As it is, I'm stuck trying to get a crisp break on an S80 trigger that demands overtravel. Clem, I'll check brownell's again, but I didn't see anything on their website or the last catalog. Maybe I'm just not looking in the right place. __________________ When Reason Fails.....

December 6, 2002, 07:01 PM	#10
VaughnT Senior Member Join Date: May 30, 2000 Location: Western SC Posts: 663	Hey, Clem! That's what I'm talking about. The picture really doesn't do it justice. A quick note off to Cylinder and Slide got this response: Sir, You will need to buy one of our S80 trigger pull kits. Part # CS003. Cost $46.00. This should eliminate your problem. This will give you a plunger lever that will lift the S80 firing pin block quicker. Thanks Pat I dropped the weapon off at AmmoPlus in Anderson SC and will see what he does with the trigger. Skip said that he would put in a glass-rod break in my trigger, but how he's going to do it is a mystery. I'll report back when I have the weapon in hand. Should be here by the end of next week. __________________ When Reason Fails.....

November 29, 2002, 06:22 PM	#2
Jim Watson Senior Member Join Date: October 25, 2001 Location: Alabama Posts: 18,542	Tke the firing pin block out of the slide and try it. The S80 system pretty much depends on overtravel to disengage.

November 29, 2002, 11:00 PM	#3
James K Member In Memoriam Join Date: March 17, 1999 Posts: 24,383	Jim W. is right. The Series 80 guns operate the firing pin safety off the trigger bow, through a double lever system. Either you failed to put the parts back in correctly, or your trigger bow is not pressing the bottom lever far enough. Alas, some things are not as simple as they seem. Jim

November 30, 2002, 09:54 PM	#5
Old Fuff Senior Member Join Date: October 17, 2002 Location: Arizona Posts: 237	>> Sure do wish it was simpler. << It would be if you'd bought a Colt Series 70 or earlier. These guns were made the way John Browning designed it. The Series 80 firing pin block was designed for lawyers. If the levers were made oversized and individually fitted the system would probably work better, but Colt wanted something that wouldn't require fitting. "Drop-in" doesn't always work.

November 30, 2002, 10:19 PM	#6
clem Junior member Join Date: April 17, 2001 Location: Arizona Territory Posts: 847	Take a look at "Brownell's". I seem to recall they had a match replacement firing pin lock out, set-up for the 80s guns. Good luck.

December 1, 2002, 12:33 PM	#8
clem Junior member Join Date: April 17, 2001 Location: Arizona Territory Posts: 847	VaughnT, Take a look in catalog #55, page #92 Item "C&S 1911 Auto Series 80 TRIGGER PULL REDUCTION KIT" #206-080-000. Maybe this can help you out with the problem. Good luck...

December 5, 2002, 09:33 PM	#9
clem Junior member Join Date: April 17, 2001 Location: Arizona Territory Posts: 847	Hey VaughnT! Was that what you needed? The item in catalog #55?