what would you do? gunbroker question.

Jacobie · May 15, 2013, 10:42 PM

Long story short I sold some ammo on gunbroker. Recieved an email from buyer after auction telling me to ignore bad rating (had two negatives for I belive non paying) I explained as long as he paid me I would ship it. He said he didn't pay them due to some emergencies, but again, this really has no bearing on me at the time.
I recieved a cashiers check a week or so later, boxed up the ammo and shipped it to his address on file with gunbroker, which by the way at this time his account has been deactivated due to negative feedback. Or so he told me in the email he sent me asking me to contact them on his behalf and let them know that he did pay me and to please reinstate hos account.

So, ammo ships, honestly I forgot to send him the tracking number that day, and got busy and forgot, but let him know it was on its way and should be there a certain day in an email, would have included the tracking number but did not have the receipt with me at that time. Forgot to send it later as well. A few days pass and he emails me to see if I have shipped it, I gave him the tracking number that showed it was delivered the previous week. He exclaimed that he did not get it, but he would see if someone at the front desk did.
The following day he stated it was not delivered, so I made sure I had the correct address (the one listed on gunbroker, which I am assuming was the correct one) he said he had not lived there in 6 months.

So now I'm torn, do I ship the guy more ammo, or chaulk it up to his mistake. Normally I try and be a stand up guy, but the way his account was deactivated by gunbroker makes me a little hesitent of eating this.

What would you guys do?

Do you guys ask if there is a better address to ship to? Honestly I thought the one listed on gunbroker was the best since it is verified, I never thought to ask otherwise. Of course he didn't tell me to ship it to another address either. Obviously an insight on both our parts looking back, but the whole scenerio makes me wonder if he is trying to run some scam to get more ammo.

jeffreyulatan · May 15, 2013, 10:49 PM

Oh boy that sounds like a scam, or some guys just trying to get freebies.

This is a common scam on ebay leaving sellers negative feedback in the hopes of getting a refund so they can get a freebie.

That's his mistake for not updating his address on gunbroker. If he didnt live there for 6 months why did he say he will check the front desk?

If I were you I would cease communications with him

Gary L. Griffiths · May 15, 2013, 10:55 PM

No refunds. You sent the ammo to the address he had listed, and can prove it was delivered.

MLeake · May 15, 2013, 10:56 PM

You might consult a lawyer.

I am not a lawyer. My layman's take on this is the buyer should not have bid, if his information in the system was not verified correct. Since he did bid, and win, and since there was a gunbroker listed address for his account, then he should have told you in email or written correspondence that he wanted the ammo shipped to a different address.

In other words, he created any problem that followed, and I don't think you have a moral obligation to do anything. In your position, I would probably contact gunbroker, and apprise them of what happened. This should prevent any negative reviews, scams, etc.

But again, you might consult a lawyer.

Jacobie · May 15, 2013, 11:08 PM

Thanks guys, I'm more looking at this from a moral aspect. I just don't want to screw the guy if he isn't scamming me you know.

To put it in perspective, the few other times I have sold ammo on there, I have even threw on s few extra boxes if I had it once they paid me. I felt kind of bad about how much some of them where paying for it.

I'm the guy that has quite a bit of ammo and still will let my friends get it for the price marked on the box from when I bought it years ago if they need it.

Something about this just doesn't feel legit though.

MLeake · May 15, 2013, 11:19 PM

From a moral standpoint, why should you eat the cost of his failure to provide a valid address?

Based on his other issues, why would you take him at his word as to whether there really was an error?

Jacobie · May 15, 2013, 11:21 PM

Good point !

huntinaz · May 15, 2013, 11:31 PM

His mistake, his loss. Maybe he should start learning from his mistakes.

But I bet he's scamming.

Nittespanker · May 15, 2013, 11:42 PM

I would provide proof the package was delivered to the address given.

Did you ship adult signature required? If so who signed for it?

kraigwy · May 15, 2013, 11:43 PM

You have a delivery confirmation right?

I'm betting he's trying to scam you. Probably the reason gunbroker bared him.

As to moral issues. You offered an item for sale, he paid, you shipped, he got it according to your delivery confirmation.

Where is the moral problem?

Theohazard · May 16, 2013, 12:37 AM

I agree with everyone else: there's no moral problem here.

Let's pretend he didn't have account issues with Gunbroker and let's also pretend he's not scamming you: You had one item to ship and you shipped it to the address he provided. But because he couldn't update his address even though he moved six months ago, you have to send him another package? You shouldn't eat the cost of a second ammo shipment just because it took him six months to update his address.

Packages with the wrong recipient usually make their way back to the sender, so the if original package makes its way back to you, your only moral obligation is to try to re-send it to his new address (after he pays you a new shipping charge).

I'm heartened by your desire to do the right and moral thing, but I'm also glad you're wary of a possible scam; this whole thing screams "scam" to me.

medalguy · May 16, 2013, 12:49 AM

This definitely sounds like a scam. I would also caution you not to accept cashier's checks in the future. Another scam is to send a cashier's check, you deposit it or cash it, ship the goods, then in a few days your bank calls and says the check was a forgery. You're now out the money and the merchandise. Cashier's checks are probably the most forged financial instrument these days. Always insist on a postal money order or something else you can absolutely verify before shipping merchandise.

For those who don't know, you can cash a postal money order at any Post Office with the funds available, or cash it at your bank. They can call and verify that the money order is valid, or there's an 800 number you can call yourself and verify it. Good protection for you.

TwentyToo · May 16, 2013, 02:46 AM

If I were the buyer I wouldn't expect to be sent more ammo. I'd expect it was now my problem to hunt down the ammo that was sent to the erroneous address I provided.

The buyer has moral obligations here too.

Kreyzhorse · May 16, 2013, 06:27 AM

That is a scam. I'd cease communications with him. Keep your receipt that show the goods were delivered. If he hasn't lived there in 6 months, he should have updated his information. That is not a small detail to over look.

geetarman · May 16, 2013, 06:48 AM

I think you now know why he has negative feedback. You shipped the goods and have proof of delivery and you have the money in the bank.

He is trying to pull a fast one.

45_auto · May 16, 2013, 07:03 AM

I'll pile on with the rest here, I buy and sell a pretty good bit of stuff on Gunbroker.

You have proof that you delivered the merchandise to the address he provided. Your part of this transaction is complete.

If he's too stupid to provide the correct address, he needs to be provided with the opportunity to learn the consequences of his actions.

The consequences of his action should be that he either track down the ammo that went to the wrong address, or he does without ammo.

Now if the ammo is returned to you, you should notify him if possible and send it to his new address.

22-rimfire · May 16, 2013, 07:10 AM

I feel pretty much like 45_auto if what you said is true. In addition, he can't leave negative feedback on you since he no longer has an account. Case closed...

"He's trying to pull a fast one."... possibly. I have total disdain for all the dishonesty in our society today. It affects my business every day one way or the other. Either I don't trust the client meeting his obligations or the client doesn't trust me. I have been burnt for thousands of dollars in the last couple of years. Thank God for the BBB.

**Mike Irwin** · May 16, 2013, 07:21 AM

"so I made sure I had the correct address (the one listed on gunbroker, which I am assuming was the correct one) he said he had not lived there in 6 months."

"The moral aspect."

Well, it's good that you're feeling torn about this, but...

It is his responsibility to make sure that the address that you have for shipping is the correct one.

It is his responsibility to make sure that the address he put into the gunbroker is the correct and up to date one.

I agree that this sounds like a scam.

The delivery confirmation notice from a common carrier is, I believe, legal confirmation of delivery of an item.

It sounds as if you (mostly) upheld your end of the agreement. It's up to him to contact the common carrier and the place where he used to live.

It's not up to you to replace the product.

gruesome · May 16, 2013, 07:25 AM

If you move from an address you go to the post office and do a change of address. If you name comes up in the comp. sorting it will normally forward your mail to the address where you now reside. His problem not yours.

**Mike Irwin** · May 16, 2013, 07:26 AM

"Another scam is to send a cashier's check, you deposit it or cash it, ship the goods, then in a few days your bank calls and says the check was a forgery. You're now out the money and the merchandise."

Yep. My Mother never got taken by a forged CC, fortunately, but she would regularly get people wanting to pay with a CC of price plus X dollars, and she would send the remainder to a third party as "payment."

She finally put something like "For non credit card payments, all merchandise will be HELD until the check or draft is verified legitimate and payment confirmed."

She had a couple of people who won auctions on her sites squawk. It was pretty easy to tell that they weren't legitimate purchasers.

Dashunde · May 16, 2013, 07:31 AM

He's either scamming your or he is just dumb and failed to keep his GB account current and in good standing.
His story about moving combined with his account being closed is entirely too coincidental, he may have done this to other sellers too and GB caught on to it and nixed him.

Regardless, all are his problems, not yours, don't eat a dime of it.

Patriot86 · May 16, 2013, 09:59 AM

I agree with what others have said, it sounds like a scamster trying to get in one last dig...

lcpiper · May 16, 2013, 10:40 AM

From Gunbroker's Terms of Service agreement.

Quote:

6. Accuracy. You represent and warrant that all information given to us (including your name, address and other information associated with your account (“User Information”)), and all information communicated to other users of the Site, whether in a Listing or a Posting, is true, accurate, up-to-date and not misleading.

This is pretty clear.

MLeake · May 16, 2013, 10:57 AM

I have had one item shipped to an old address in the last few years. When I was paying, online, PayPal overrode my input (I had not wished to pay via PayPal, as I mostly stopped using them a few years back). The site I was using apparently preferred PayPal; PayPal detected my email and credit card association, and somehow the system put in my old address even though I had typed my current address.

I didn't notice this had happened in the order confirmation email. I noticed it later, when the item had not arrived, and I contacted the seller for tracking info.

It had been delivered to my old address. Aaaargh!

Now, the seller felt bad about this. She offered to send me a new item, while she attempted to track down the one that was received at my former address. (S&W J frame grips; seller was Theresa, aka GripSeller on gunbroker; she is fantastic.)

I told her that I appreciated that, but the error was not her fault - I should have noticed the PayPal override on my address info. So, I paid her for another set of grips, and told her she could reimburse me for the first pair IF they came back to her.

She did eventually get them back. Next time I ordered from her, I ordered two pairs of Ahrends K frame grips, and she only charged me for one.

I think that problem was dealt with in a moral and ethical manner on both sides.

Hope that example helps.

357 Python · May 16, 2013, 05:59 PM

If you want to find out if the address is correct you could do something a little sneaky. Send him a letter (Certified Mail - Return Recept) from your work address or some where else. The letter could be anything even an advertisement. The idea is if he signs for it it is his current address. If the letter comes back (return to sender) you will know it may not be his current address. I beats paying a PI for their service.

May 15, 2013, 10:42 PM	#1
Jacobie Senior Member Join Date: April 5, 2005 Location: Ky Posts: 325	what would you do? gunbroker question. Long story short I sold some ammo on gunbroker. Recieved an email from buyer after auction telling me to ignore bad rating (had two negatives for I belive non paying) I explained as long as he paid me I would ship it. He said he didn't pay them due to some emergencies, but again, this really has no bearing on me at the time. I recieved a cashiers check a week or so later, boxed up the ammo and shipped it to his address on file with gunbroker, which by the way at this time his account has been deactivated due to negative feedback. Or so he told me in the email he sent me asking me to contact them on his behalf and let them know that he did pay me and to please reinstate hos account. So, ammo ships, honestly I forgot to send him the tracking number that day, and got busy and forgot, but let him know it was on its way and should be there a certain day in an email, would have included the tracking number but did not have the receipt with me at that time. Forgot to send it later as well. A few days pass and he emails me to see if I have shipped it, I gave him the tracking number that showed it was delivered the previous week. He exclaimed that he did not get it, but he would see if someone at the front desk did. The following day he stated it was not delivered, so I made sure I had the correct address (the one listed on gunbroker, which I am assuming was the correct one) he said he had not lived there in 6 months. So now I'm torn, do I ship the guy more ammo, or chaulk it up to his mistake. Normally I try and be a stand up guy, but the way his account was deactivated by gunbroker makes me a little hesitent of eating this. What would you guys do? Do you guys ask if there is a better address to ship to? Honestly I thought the one listed on gunbroker was the best since it is verified, I never thought to ask otherwise. Of course he didn't tell me to ship it to another address either. Obviously an insight on both our parts looking back, but the whole scenerio makes me wonder if he is trying to run some scam to get more ammo.

May 15, 2013, 10:49 PM	#2
jeffreyulatan Member Join Date: October 22, 2012 Location: Guam Posts: 47	Oh boy that sounds like a scam, or some guys just trying to get freebies. This is a common scam on ebay leaving sellers negative feedback in the hopes of getting a refund so they can get a freebie. That's his mistake for not updating his address on gunbroker. If he didnt live there for 6 months why did he say he will check the front desk? If I were you I would cease communications with him __________________ Delta Firearms Mfg Co. 07/08 FFL SOT 2, Hobby Shop Owner

May 15, 2013, 10:55 PM	#3
Gary L. Griffiths Senior Member Join Date: April 7, 2000 Location: AZ, WA Posts: 1,466	No refunds. You sent the ammo to the address he had listed, and can prove it was delivered. __________________ Violence is an ugly thing, but not the ugliest of things. The decayed and degraded state of moral and valorous feeling which believes that nothing is worth violence is much worse. Those who have nothing for which they are willing to fight; nothing they care about more than their own craven apathy; are miserable creatures who have no chance of being free, unless made and kept so by the valor of those better than themselves. Gary L. Griffiths (Paraphrasing John Stuart Mill)

May 15, 2013, 11:31 PM	#8
huntinaz Senior Member Join Date: September 21, 2010 Location: az Posts: 1,332	His mistake, his loss. Maybe he should start learning from his mistakes. But I bet he's scamming. __________________ "When there’s lead in the air, there’s hope in the heart”- Hunter’s Proverb "Feed me, or feed me to something. I just want to be part of the food chain." -Al Bundy

May 15, 2013, 11:43 PM	#10
kraigwy Senior Member Join Date: June 16, 2008 Location: Wyoming Posts: 11,061	You have a delivery confirmation right? I'm betting he's trying to scam you. Probably the reason gunbroker bared him. As to moral issues. You offered an item for sale, he paid, you shipped, he got it according to your delivery confirmation. Where is the moral problem? __________________ Kraig Stuart CPT USAR Ret USAMU Sniper School Distinguished Rifle Badge 1071

May 15, 2013, 10:56 PM	#4
MLeake Senior Member Join Date: November 15, 2007 Location: Outside KC, MO Posts: 10,128	You might consult a lawyer. I am not a lawyer. My layman's take on this is the buyer should not have bid, if his information in the system was not verified correct. Since he did bid, and win, and since there was a gunbroker listed address for his account, then he should have told you in email or written correspondence that he wanted the ammo shipped to a different address. In other words, he created any problem that followed, and I don't think you have a moral obligation to do anything. In your position, I would probably contact gunbroker, and apprise them of what happened. This should prevent any negative reviews, scams, etc. But again, you might consult a lawyer.

May 15, 2013, 11:08 PM	#5
Jacobie Senior Member Join Date: April 5, 2005 Location: Ky Posts: 325	Thanks guys, I'm more looking at this from a moral aspect. I just don't want to screw the guy if he isn't scamming me you know. To put it in perspective, the few other times I have sold ammo on there, I have even threw on s few extra boxes if I had it once they paid me. I felt kind of bad about how much some of them where paying for it. I'm the guy that has quite a bit of ammo and still will let my friends get it for the price marked on the box from when I bought it years ago if they need it. Something about this just doesn't feel legit though.

May 15, 2013, 11:19 PM	#6
MLeake Senior Member Join Date: November 15, 2007 Location: Outside KC, MO Posts: 10,128	From a moral standpoint, why should you eat the cost of his failure to provide a valid address? Based on his other issues, why would you take him at his word as to whether there really was an error?

May 15, 2013, 11:21 PM	#7
Jacobie Senior Member Join Date: April 5, 2005 Location: Ky Posts: 325	Good point !

May 15, 2013, 11:42 PM	#9
Nittespanker Junior member Join Date: May 9, 2013 Posts: 70	I would provide proof the package was delivered to the address given. Did you ship adult signature required? If so who signed for it?

May 16, 2013, 12:37 AM	#11
Theohazard Senior Member Join Date: April 19, 2012 Location: Western PA Posts: 3,829	I agree with everyone else: there's no moral problem here. Let's pretend he didn't have account issues with Gunbroker and let's also pretend he's not scamming you: You had one item to ship and you shipped it to the address he provided. But because he couldn't update his address even though he moved six months ago, you have to send him another package? You shouldn't eat the cost of a second ammo shipment just because it took him six months to update his address. Packages with the wrong recipient usually make their way back to the sender, so the if original package makes its way back to you, your only moral obligation is to try to re-send it to his new address (after he pays you a new shipping charge). I'm heartened by your desire to do the right and moral thing, but I'm also glad you're wary of a possible scam; this whole thing screams "scam" to me. __________________ 0331: "Accuracy by volume."

May 16, 2013, 12:49 AM	#12
medalguy Senior Member Join Date: August 31, 2009 Location: New Mexico Posts: 1,033	This definitely sounds like a scam. I would also caution you not to accept cashier's checks in the future. Another scam is to send a cashier's check, you deposit it or cash it, ship the goods, then in a few days your bank calls and says the check was a forgery. You're now out the money and the merchandise. Cashier's checks are probably the most forged financial instrument these days. Always insist on a postal money order or something else you can absolutely verify before shipping merchandise. For those who don't know, you can cash a postal money order at any Post Office with the funds available, or cash it at your bank. They can call and verify that the money order is valid, or there's an 800 number you can call yourself and verify it. Good protection for you.

May 16, 2013, 02:46 AM	#13
TwentyToo Member Join Date: November 15, 2012 Posts: 41	what would you do? gunbroker question. If I were the buyer I wouldn't expect to be sent more ammo. I'd expect it was now my problem to hunt down the ammo that was sent to the erroneous address I provided. The buyer has moral obligations here too.

May 16, 2013, 06:27 AM	#14
Kreyzhorse Senior Member Join Date: April 12, 2006 Location: NKY Posts: 12,463	That is a scam. I'd cease communications with him. Keep your receipt that show the goods were delivered. If he hasn't lived there in 6 months, he should have updated his information. That is not a small detail to over look. __________________ "He who laughs last, laughs dead." Homer Simpson

May 16, 2013, 06:48 AM	#15
geetarman Senior Member Join Date: November 18, 2009 Location: Arizona Posts: 3,157	I think you now know why he has negative feedback. You shipped the goods and have proof of delivery and you have the money in the bank. He is trying to pull a fast one. __________________ Geetarman Carpe Cerveza

May 16, 2013, 07:03 AM	#16
45_auto Senior Member Join Date: November 21, 2011 Location: Southern Louisiana Posts: 1,399	I'll pile on with the rest here, I buy and sell a pretty good bit of stuff on Gunbroker. You have proof that you delivered the merchandise to the address he provided. Your part of this transaction is complete. If he's too stupid to provide the correct address, he needs to be provided with the opportunity to learn the consequences of his actions. The consequences of his action should be that he either track down the ammo that went to the wrong address, or he does without ammo. Now if the ammo is returned to you, you should notify him if possible and send it to his new address.

May 16, 2013, 07:10 AM	#17
22-rimfire Senior Member Join Date: February 19, 2005 Location: Tennessee Posts: 5,323	I feel pretty much like 45_auto if what you said is true. In addition, he can't leave negative feedback on you since he no longer has an account. Case closed... "He's trying to pull a fast one."... possibly. I have total disdain for all the dishonesty in our society today. It affects my business every day one way or the other. Either I don't trust the client meeting his obligations or the client doesn't trust me. I have been burnt for thousands of dollars in the last couple of years. Thank God for the BBB. Last edited by 22-rimfire; May 16, 2013 at 07:22 AM.

May 16, 2013, 07:21 AM	#18
Mike Irwin Staff Join Date: April 13, 2000 Location: Northern Virginia Posts: 41,390	"so I made sure I had the correct address (the one listed on gunbroker, which I am assuming was the correct one) he said he had not lived there in 6 months." "The moral aspect." Well, it's good that you're feeling torn about this, but... It is his responsibility to make sure that the address that you have for shipping is the correct one. It is his responsibility to make sure that the address he put into the gunbroker is the correct and up to date one. I agree that this sounds like a scam. The delivery confirmation notice from a common carrier is, I believe, legal confirmation of delivery of an item. It sounds as if you (mostly) upheld your end of the agreement. It's up to him to contact the common carrier and the place where he used to live. It's not up to you to replace the product. __________________ "The gift which I am sending you is called a dog, and is in fact the most precious and valuable possession of mankind" -Theodorus Gaza Baby Jesus cries when the fat redneck doesn't have military-grade firepower.

May 16, 2013, 07:25 AM	#19
gruesome Junior Member Join Date: February 8, 2013 Posts: 14	If you move from an address you go to the post office and do a change of address. If you name comes up in the comp. sorting it will normally forward your mail to the address where you now reside. His problem not yours.

May 16, 2013, 07:26 AM	#20
Mike Irwin Staff Join Date: April 13, 2000 Location: Northern Virginia Posts: 41,390	"Another scam is to send a cashier's check, you deposit it or cash it, ship the goods, then in a few days your bank calls and says the check was a forgery. You're now out the money and the merchandise." Yep. My Mother never got taken by a forged CC, fortunately, but she would regularly get people wanting to pay with a CC of price plus X dollars, and she would send the remainder to a third party as "payment." She finally put something like "For non credit card payments, all merchandise will be HELD until the check or draft is verified legitimate and payment confirmed." She had a couple of people who won auctions on her sites squawk. It was pretty easy to tell that they weren't legitimate purchasers. __________________ "The gift which I am sending you is called a dog, and is in fact the most precious and valuable possession of mankind" -Theodorus Gaza Baby Jesus cries when the fat redneck doesn't have military-grade firepower.

May 16, 2013, 07:31 AM	#21
Dashunde Senior Member Join Date: December 22, 2004 Posts: 2,018	He's either scamming your or he is just dumb and failed to keep his GB account current and in good standing. His story about moving combined with his account being closed is entirely too coincidental, he may have done this to other sellers too and GB caught on to it and nixed him. Regardless, all are his problems, not yours, don't eat a dime of it.

May 16, 2013, 09:59 AM	#22
Patriot86 Senior Member Join Date: December 23, 2010 Location: Chicagoland Posts: 1,293	I agree with what others have said, it sounds like a scamster trying to get in one last dig... __________________ "....The swords of others will set you your limits".

May 16, 2013, 10:57 AM	#24
MLeake Senior Member Join Date: November 15, 2007 Location: Outside KC, MO Posts: 10,128	I have had one item shipped to an old address in the last few years. When I was paying, online, PayPal overrode my input (I had not wished to pay via PayPal, as I mostly stopped using them a few years back). The site I was using apparently preferred PayPal; PayPal detected my email and credit card association, and somehow the system put in my old address even though I had typed my current address. I didn't notice this had happened in the order confirmation email. I noticed it later, when the item had not arrived, and I contacted the seller for tracking info. It had been delivered to my old address. Aaaargh! Now, the seller felt bad about this. She offered to send me a new item, while she attempted to track down the one that was received at my former address. (S&W J frame grips; seller was Theresa, aka GripSeller on gunbroker; she is fantastic.) I told her that I appreciated that, but the error was not her fault - I should have noticed the PayPal override on my address info. So, I paid her for another set of grips, and told her she could reimburse me for the first pair IF they came back to her. She did eventually get them back. Next time I ordered from her, I ordered two pairs of Ahrends K frame grips, and she only charged me for one. I think that problem was dealt with in a moral and ethical manner on both sides. Hope that example helps.

May 16, 2013, 05:59 PM	#25
357 Python Senior Member Join Date: June 7, 2007 Location: Charlottesville, VA Posts: 941	If you want to find out if the address is correct you could do something a little sneaky. Send him a letter (Certified Mail - Return Recept) from your work address or some where else. The letter could be anything even an advertisement. The idea is if he signs for it it is his current address. If the letter comes back (return to sender) you will know it may not be his current address. I beats paying a PI for their service.