Different sort of problem while hunting

Daryl · September 25, 2010, 11:14 AM

Ok, to start off, I hunt bears in southern Arizona. While that may sound strange to some, there are some pretty decent bear populations in most moutain ranges in my area.

I hunt by glassing and calling, mostly. When calling, I like to have a fairly powerful handgun as a back-up, since calling usually involves agressive bears at close range.

My problem is, the same mountain ranges that hold bears are also prefered travel corridors for illegal drug/human smuggling cartels that have taken up residence in northern Sonora, Mexico. The area where I usually hunt is about 20 miles northwest of the Krentz ranch, where Rob Krentz was murdered while checking fences and water holes last March by two suspects that fled back into Mexico and were never caught.

My hunting rifle this year will be a lever action .45 Colt that's loaded to push a 300 gr bullet to around 1650 fps, which puts it about equal to a .454 Casull from a handgun. It holds 10 shots.

My normal side-arm is chanbered the same, and pushes the same bullet to around 1250-1300 fps. I'm considering leaving this handgun home this year, and instead taking a Glock 23 with a couple of spare 13 round magazines.

If I had any sense, I'd probably just stay home. I didn't bother applying for a deer tag this year, but I really enjoy bear hunting.

My two hunting partners are border patrol officers, BTW.

What would you do?

Daryl

andy416mag · September 25, 2010, 11:29 AM

I would carry my Glock with the spare Mags, loaded with some good 180 grain rounds, better safe than sorry. Also I would check with your friends that are border Patrol Officers and see what they think also they will have a better understanding on what your situation down there is.

cornbush · September 25, 2010, 12:28 PM

I feel for ya, sounds like you have a pretty good plan already.

BIG P · September 25, 2010, 12:28 PM

Man I really hate that, I never though about the men trying to hunt out there
thing is you know those A holes have AK'S & AR'S and they dont care about you or your family.I dont think I would stop My bear hunting,Just make one more thing to watch out for. I dont know but I heard they taste just like Buffalo.Go with the Glock dont let them dictate or keep you from doin what you want to do be careful & good luck

Old Grump · September 25, 2010, 12:39 PM

And one dissenting vote, it's a nice gun but I don't think I would trade a 44 mag for a 40 cal if its primary function is for bear. You still have the carbine and two hunting partners. If you are good with the 44 mag I would prefer the power to shake things up if bothered by human trash. If I were to downgrade from the 44 mag I would want at least a 10 MM for the power and the range. You still get the extra rounds and the quick change ability of a magazine fed gun. Just dos centavos from an old dinosaur who thinks bigger is almost always better and quality beats quantity. That being said I won't be walking those mountains with you and you have to go with what is comfortable for you.

Daryl · September 25, 2010, 02:31 PM

Quote:

thing is you know those A holes have AK'S & AR'S and they dont care about you or your family.I dont think I would stop My bear hunting,Just make one more thing to watch out for.

Yep, and that's the way I feel about it right now. I just want to be as prepared as I can for whatever threat I may come across.

Daryl

Daryl · September 25, 2010, 03:09 PM

Quote:

And one dissenting vote, it's a nice gun but I don't think I would trade a 44 mag for a 40 cal if its primary function is for bear. You still have the carbine and two hunting partners.

The handgun's primary purpose is as a close range self defense tool, whether for man or beast . The carbine is what I'll actually use as a primary hunting gun.

I'm torn, but as much as I'd love to carry the revolver, it's likely gonna have to stay in the truck as an alternate. I could carry them both, I supppose, but that's a lot of hardware to pack around a rough mountain range.

Maybe in my pack?

Daryl

snipecatcher · September 25, 2010, 03:16 PM

Quote:

I dont know but I heard they taste just like Buffalo.

Bears or Mexican drug traffickers?

Huntergirl · September 25, 2010, 03:24 PM

I wouldn't hunt there. It sounds harsh, but your life is worth much more than a few days hunting. If there are Mexicano bad guys out there, they won't give you a chance to defend yourself. You will be ambushed and buried in a hole before you could realize it. You will be focussed on glassing bear, they will be on you like flies on crap. DON'T TAKE CHANCES.

Deerhunter · September 25, 2010, 03:30 PM

I was out at Ft. Huachuca for several months. We went hiking in the mountains a few times and came across water jugs that someone left out for the border crossers. We would just dump it out and move on. No water when they get there. Too bad.

Be careful cause like you said they don't care about your life. They likely wont waste the time digging a hole for you though.

Big Bill · September 25, 2010, 11:22 PM

If I were you, I'd look for an alternative long rifle. I'd want a 308 or 30-06 with a good scope just in case I needed to reach out a bit more. And, I'd definately carry a hi cap handgun too and plenty of ammo. What other alternative choices do you currently have?

Personally, out of my inventory, I'd carry my 300 WSM and my XDm 45 and my SP101 in a pocket. Or, maybe I'd carry my Ruger M77 Mark II 25-06 and my S&W 28-2?

But, your current choice is also very good - soooo... I wish you good luck.

psychobily · September 26, 2010, 12:12 AM

Dude, go hunt'n... better yet, help your buddy out, nome sain......

NWPilgrim · September 26, 2010, 12:39 AM

Don't bring a pistol to a rifle fight. If the drug cartels are carrying M16s, AR15s, and AK47 then your Glock is no match.

I would trade the lever action for a scoped .308 semi-auto like an M1A. A .308 is plenty for bear with a quality bullet. And it would be much better against armed cartel thugs in vehicles.

I just read a news article not long ago in which a police officer I believe killed a rogue, though smallish, grizzly with several shots from his .40S&W pistol. That may be pushing you luck on grizzly may be do for close quarters encounter with a black bear. I carry a .40 while hiking in bear country and load it with high velocity 200 gr. ammo from DoubleTap (or similar). Otherwise upgrade to a Glock 20 in 10mm for a little more oomph.

therealdeal · September 26, 2010, 12:56 AM

bring both handguns just in case so you're not kicking yourself for not taking your own advice

Art Eatman · September 26, 2010, 09:12 AM

My experience in hunting critters is that I've always seen other hunters long before they ever see me--if they do, at all. Seems to me that if you're sitting and glassing, you'll see any people as well as any game.

I think I'd worry more if I were camping out. I sure wouldn't be sleeping anywhere near where I'd had any sort of campfire or lights...

kraigwy · September 26, 2010, 09:40 AM

Quote:

If I had any sense, I'd probably just stay home. I didn't bother applying for a deer tag this year,

Quote:

I wouldn't hunt there. It sounds harsh, but your life is worth much more than a few days hunting.

Life isn't Life if you have to hide to enjoy it.

I'll not let some illegal alian drug dude keep me from enjoying MY COUNTRY.

Bear taste more like pork, buffalo taste like lean beef.

Daryl · September 26, 2010, 09:51 AM

Quote:

I wouldn't hunt there. It sounds harsh, but your life is worth much more than a few days hunting. If there are Mexicano bad guys out there, they won't give you a chance to defend yourself. You will be ambushed and buried in a hole before you could realize it. You will be focussed on glassing bear, they will be on you like flies on crap. DON'T TAKE CHANCES.

Like the bears, the cartels mostly want to avoid being noticed. It's when they're noticed that trouble might start.

But you have to realize that I live here, and there's certain risks involved with many things I do. The San Pedro River is a main smuggling area; good cover, low ground, and it's easy to follow to a destination.

It also runs less than 1/4 mile from my mom's house at that point.

My wife works in close proximity to the border in an area that is also used for smuggling.

You learn to watch for things to avoid trouble.

Hunting here is little different than hiking, and I hike the same mountains that one of the above posters mentions (Huachuca Mtns).

You can't just stop enjoying life because of a threat. You learn to deal with it, and choose when and where the best options lie.

Daryl

Uncle Buck · September 26, 2010, 09:57 AM

I agree with Old Grump. I am more comfortable with a revolver anyway.

I most definately disagree with HunterGirl. It will be a cold day in hades before I let a criminal disrupt an activity I enjoy. Also, you will have two others with you, to assist in watching for criminals AND bears.

Water-Man · September 26, 2010, 09:59 AM

Continue hunting the same way and forget the Glock.

Daryl · September 26, 2010, 10:00 AM

Quote:

If I were you, I'd look for an alternative long rifle. I'd want a 308 or 30-06 with a good scope just in case I needed to reach out a bit more. And, I'd definately carry a hi cap handgun too and plenty of ammo. What other alternative choices do you currently have?

Personally, out of my inventory, I'd carry my 300 WSM and my XDm 45 and my SP101 in a pocket. Or, maybe I'd carry my Ruger M77 Mark II 25-06 and my S&W 28-2?

But, your current choice is also very good - soooo... I wish you good luck.

I have options, no doubt.

The canyon I intend to hunt has really tight cover, and it's difficult to use a 'scope. Oak brush mixed with manzanita makes for some pretty close quarters. For that type of hunting, I like a short barrel and open sights.

I'm not going to fight a war; I'm just going hunting. With all things considered, it makes sense to me to be prepared for whatever may happen, but I don't forsee any long range battles. If I happen across the wrong people, it'd be at close distances.

Daryl

Daryl · September 26, 2010, 10:03 AM

Quote:

I dont know but I heard they taste just like Buffalo.

I'll assume by "they" you mean bears?

I've eaten both, and they're not the same. Bear meat is stringy, with more fat. Buffalo is tighter grained, has almost no fat, and would be my choice between the two.

Bear's not bad, but I really like buffalo meat.

Daryl

BIG P · September 26, 2010, 02:02 PM

Nope I didnt mean the bears

:barf:

Daryl · September 27, 2010, 10:27 AM

Quote:

I think I'd worry more if I were camping out. I sure wouldn't be sleeping anywhere near where I'd had any sort of campfire or lights...

I agree, Art. It takes an hour or so to get over there from where I live, and another hour back, but I think it's time well spent. I love to camp, but not under the present conditions.

Thanks,
Daryl

Daryl · September 27, 2010, 10:38 AM

Quote:

Nope I didnt mean the bears

Well, then I wouldn't know. You might ask the bears...?

Some of the illegals don't make it. Bodies are found regularly of those that die of health issues and/or exposure, and many are badly decomposed. It's very likely that not all are found. Those that die in bear country...

Just sayin'...

Bear season in the area I want to hunt starts next Friday (Oct 1st), so I've been thinking on this some. Leaving the .40 behind isn't an option this time. I'd feel sort of naked out there without it, the current conditions being what they are.

I do take a "call bag" with me on calling stands though, and the .45 Colt fits nicely into the bag, even though it adds a bit of weight. Calling stands are generally made within a short distance of the vehicle (within 1/2 mile or so). Wouldn't be all that hard to carry the extra weight on short treks, and the only time I might need the handgun would be on a calling stand.

I'll give it a try, anyway.

Daryl

ZeroJunk · September 27, 2010, 11:22 AM

I guess in a way it's little like hunting in grizzly country. I spent the last ten days in the Bob Marshall wilderness up above the Flathead on Cox Creek. Sow grizzly bear with cub tracks all over the place. Twenty miles by horse to the closest phone if you get hurt.

After a friend of mine had a hunter with him mauled pretty good I have them on my mind and keep an eye out for a good tree. Hunting partner had a grizzzly boar about 60 yards away, but he was not noticed or at least the bear didn't indicate that he did.

I have to say I wish they were not in there as thick as they are with no hunting pressure to intimidate them for several years, and the sow bears not teaching their young to fear men.

But, I hunt in there anyway. Just keep on your toes.

September 25, 2010, 11:14 AM	#1
Daryl Senior Member Join Date: July 11, 2008 Posts: 2,350	Different sort of problem while hunting Ok, to start off, I hunt bears in southern Arizona. While that may sound strange to some, there are some pretty decent bear populations in most moutain ranges in my area. I hunt by glassing and calling, mostly. When calling, I like to have a fairly powerful handgun as a back-up, since calling usually involves agressive bears at close range. My problem is, the same mountain ranges that hold bears are also prefered travel corridors for illegal drug/human smuggling cartels that have taken up residence in northern Sonora, Mexico. The area where I usually hunt is about 20 miles northwest of the Krentz ranch, where Rob Krentz was murdered while checking fences and water holes last March by two suspects that fled back into Mexico and were never caught. My hunting rifle this year will be a lever action .45 Colt that's loaded to push a 300 gr bullet to around 1650 fps, which puts it about equal to a .454 Casull from a handgun. It holds 10 shots. My normal side-arm is chanbered the same, and pushes the same bullet to around 1250-1300 fps. I'm considering leaving this handgun home this year, and instead taking a Glock 23 with a couple of spare 13 round magazines. If I had any sense, I'd probably just stay home. I didn't bother applying for a deer tag this year, but I really enjoy bear hunting. My two hunting partners are border patrol officers, BTW. What would you do? Daryl

September 25, 2010, 12:28 PM	#3
cornbush Senior Member Join Date: September 29, 2008 Location: The retarded place below Idaho Posts: 1,408	I feel for ya, sounds like you have a pretty good plan already. __________________ The best shot I ever made was an accident

September 25, 2010, 12:39 PM	#5
Old Grump Member in memoriam Join Date: April 9, 2009 Location: Blue River Wisconsin, in Posts: 3,144	And one dissenting vote, it's a nice gun but I don't think I would trade a 44 mag for a 40 cal if its primary function is for bear. You still have the carbine and two hunting partners. If you are good with the 44 mag I would prefer the power to shake things up if bothered by human trash. If I were to downgrade from the 44 mag I would want at least a 10 MM for the power and the range. You still get the extra rounds and the quick change ability of a magazine fed gun. Just dos centavos from an old dinosaur who thinks bigger is almost always better and quality beats quantity. That being said I won't be walking those mountains with you and you have to go with what is comfortable for you. __________________ Good intentions will always be pleaded for any assumption of power. The Constitution was made to guard the people against the dangers of good intentions. There are men in all ages who mean to govern will, but they mean to govern. They promise to be good masters, but they mean to be masters. --Daniel Webster--

September 25, 2010, 03:30 PM	#10
Deerhunter Senior Member Join Date: April 15, 2009 Location: Northern VA Posts: 607	I was out at Ft. Huachuca for several months. We went hiking in the mountains a few times and came across water jugs that someone left out for the border crossers. We would just dump it out and move on. No water when they get there. Too bad. Be careful cause like you said they don't care about your life. They likely wont waste the time digging a hole for you though. __________________ My idea of fast food is a mallard. -Ted Nugent

September 25, 2010, 11:22 PM	#11
Big Bill Senior Member Join Date: December 29, 2008 Location: Idaho Posts: 1,053	If I were you, I'd look for an alternative long rifle. I'd want a 308 or 30-06 with a good scope just in case I needed to reach out a bit more. And, I'd definately carry a hi cap handgun too and plenty of ammo. What other alternative choices do you currently have? Personally, out of my inventory, I'd carry my 300 WSM and my XDm 45 and my SP101 in a pocket. Or, maybe I'd carry my Ruger M77 Mark II 25-06 and my S&W 28-2? But, your current choice is also very good - soooo... I wish you good luck. Last edited by Big Bill; September 25, 2010 at 11:35 PM.

September 25, 2010, 11:29 AM	#2
andy416mag Member Join Date: March 14, 2005 Location: Michigan Posts: 25	I would carry my Glock with the spare Mags, loaded with some good 180 grain rounds, better safe than sorry. Also I would check with your friends that are border Patrol Officers and see what they think also they will have a better understanding on what your situation down there is.

September 25, 2010, 12:28 PM	#4
BIG P Senior Member Join Date: July 8, 2010 Location: North Georgia Posts: 1,679	Man I really hate that, I never though about the men trying to hunt out there thing is you know those A holes have AK'S & AR'S and they dont care about you or your family.I dont think I would stop My bear hunting,Just make one more thing to watch out for. I dont know but I heard they taste just like Buffalo.Go with the Glock dont let them dictate or keep you from doin what you want to do be careful & good luck

September 25, 2010, 03:24 PM	#9
Huntergirl Senior Member Join Date: January 8, 2005 Location: Wyoming Posts: 907	I wouldn't hunt there. It sounds harsh, but your life is worth much more than a few days hunting. If there are Mexicano bad guys out there, they won't give you a chance to defend yourself. You will be ambushed and buried in a hole before you could realize it. You will be focussed on glassing bear, they will be on you like flies on crap. DON'T TAKE CHANCES.

September 26, 2010, 12:12 AM	#12
psychobily Member Join Date: September 25, 2010 Location: East Texas Posts: 82	Dude, go hunt'n... better yet, help your buddy out, nome sain......

September 26, 2010, 12:39 AM	#13
NWPilgrim Senior Member Join Date: September 29, 2008 Location: Oregon Posts: 2,346	Don't bring a pistol to a rifle fight. If the drug cartels are carrying M16s, AR15s, and AK47 then your Glock is no match. I would trade the lever action for a scoped .308 semi-auto like an M1A. A .308 is plenty for bear with a quality bullet. And it would be much better against armed cartel thugs in vehicles. I just read a news article not long ago in which a police officer I believe killed a rogue, though smallish, grizzly with several shots from his .40S&W pistol. That may be pushing you luck on grizzly may be do for close quarters encounter with a black bear. I carry a .40 while hiking in bear country and load it with high velocity 200 gr. ammo from DoubleTap (or similar). Otherwise upgrade to a Glock 20 in 10mm for a little more oomph. __________________ "The ultimate authority ... resides in the people alone. ... The advantage of being armed, which the Americans possess over the people of almost every other nation ... forms a barrier against the enterprises of ambition." - James Madison

September 26, 2010, 12:56 AM	#14
therealdeal Senior Member Join Date: September 15, 2010 Posts: 627	bring both handguns just in case so you're not kicking yourself for not taking your own advice __________________ NRA Distinguished Life Member "Abraham Lincoln freed all men, but Sam Colt made them all equal." (post Civil War slogan)

September 26, 2010, 09:12 AM	#15
Art Eatman Staff in Memoriam Join Date: November 13, 1998 Location: Terlingua, TX; Thomasville, GA Posts: 24,798	My experience in hunting critters is that I've always seen other hunters long before they ever see me--if they do, at all. Seems to me that if you're sitting and glassing, you'll see any people as well as any game. I think I'd worry more if I were camping out. I sure wouldn't be sleeping anywhere near where I'd had any sort of campfire or lights...

September 26, 2010, 09:57 AM	#18
Uncle Buck Senior Member Join Date: June 21, 2009 Location: West Central Missouri Posts: 2,592	I agree with Old Grump. I am more comfortable with a revolver anyway. I most definately disagree with HunterGirl. It will be a cold day in hades before I let a criminal disrupt an activity I enjoy. Also, you will have two others with you, to assist in watching for criminals AND bears. __________________ Inside Every Bright Idea Is The 50% Probability Of A Disaster Waiting To Happen.

September 26, 2010, 09:59 AM	#19
Water-Man Senior Member Join Date: March 23, 2008 Location: Jacksonville, FL Posts: 2,126	Continue hunting the same way and forget the Glock.

September 26, 2010, 02:02 PM	#22
BIG P Senior Member Join Date: July 8, 2010 Location: North Georgia Posts: 1,679	Nope I didnt mean the bears:barf:

September 27, 2010, 11:22 AM	#25
ZeroJunk Senior Member Join Date: August 14, 2006 Location: Browns Summit NC Posts: 2,589	I guess in a way it's little like hunting in grizzly country. I spent the last ten days in the Bob Marshall wilderness up above the Flathead on Cox Creek. Sow grizzly bear with cub tracks all over the place. Twenty miles by horse to the closest phone if you get hurt. After a friend of mine had a hunter with him mauled pretty good I have them on my mind and keep an eye out for a good tree. Hunting partner had a grizzzly boar about 60 yards away, but he was not noticed or at least the bear didn't indicate that he did. I have to say I wish they were not in there as thick as they are with no hunting pressure to intimidate them for several years, and the sow bears not teaching their young to fear men. But, I hunt in there anyway. Just keep on your toes.