9mm Carbine vs .45acp Carbine?

GunXpatriot · February 6, 2012, 05:47 PM

I was looking around youtube and found out about hi-points extremely affordable carbines. I haven't found one complaint on them and I've looked for a LOT of feedback. People say they dont look too good, but I kinda like the way they look.

Anyway, I plan on getting one. I've always wanted a rifle in 9mm or .45acp. I think I'll pass on the .40s&w as of right now.

Would a .45acp be more useful over a 9mm in a carbine? I mean, yeah, it has more stopping power, but both will have somewhat increased velocity, so I think the 9mm would be pretty sufficient?

Ammo Prices... I'm honestly not familiar with any of the 3 cartridges. Don't own any pistols. All are available where I live, 9mm and .45acp seem more popular, but as a result, it would seem .40S&W is generally more plentiful. How do prices compare between cheap plinking ammo and premium defense ammo?

Final question. Is .40S&W an intermediate cartridge between 9 and 40? Some say yes, some say no. Anyone have any more information on such a thing?

Sorry to be a total bother, but I figured it's way easier to get info on an extremely active forum than searching google for hours!

Thanks for any help you can give me.

loose_holster_dan · February 6, 2012, 06:04 PM

pass and pass.

i just don't get the draw of a handgun round coming out of a carbine sized weapon unless it's full auto. 45 is no cheaper to shoot than 223. some 9mm handguns have 19 round mags and are extremely easy to handle recoil-wise for quick accurate follow up shots.

SIGSHR · February 6, 2012, 07:19 PM

I have the Marlin Camp Carbines in 9MM and 45ACP. The former takes the magazines for my S&W M659, the latter magazines for the M1911, hence, you can have a long arm and sidearm taking the same cartridge and magazine. The 9MM has the advantage in velocity and penetration, especially with FMJ bullets, the 45ACP is pretty much the better manstopper. Recoil with both in a longarm is very mild. In a longarm both are 50 yard cartridges, 75 yards tops, maybe 100 yards in a pinch.

Jim243 · February 6, 2012, 07:39 PM

I have to admit that I do not understand the alure of the pistol caliber in a carbine. Mine is a 223 AR. But, my best friend just ordered a Hi-Point (they were on sale) with all the bells and whistles. He ordered a 40 S&W which I consider closer to a 45 ACP than a 9mm. Since he has a CZ in 40 as well as a PT-101 in 40 it would make sense for him. If it was me, I would have bought the 9mm since it will hold more rounds and be faster out the barrel and maybe a little more range.

Me I like 25 grains of gunpowder behind a 60 grain bullet than 5 grains of gunpowder behind a 180 grain bullet. But, that's me.

The nice thing is you can shoot it in an indoor range as well as outside. And close in, I don't think it would be any less effective than an AR. This is his first black gun (finally) even though he has a Mini-14 (Ranch Rifle).

Just my 2 cents.
Jim

Willie Lowman · February 6, 2012, 07:51 PM

I have been very impressed by the accuracy of the Hi=Point carbines.

I have never been impressed by the reliability or quality of manufacture of any Hi-Point firearm.

I can't say that if you gave me one for free I wouldn't take it. I have in fact won a Hi-Point 995 carbine in a drawing last spring. I sold that jam-o-mattic at the first gunshow I could find.

arch308 · February 6, 2012, 08:03 PM

I have a Hi-Point 45 carbine. It has never jammed on me. Function has never been a problem.
Accuracy is another matter. I don't consider 6" groups @ 50 yds good. Maybe it is just me but I am generally a better shot than that. This is with a scope.
Could be the cheap scope or mount, I don't know. I got so disgusted with it I put it up and didn't mess with it thru hunting season. Plan to give it one more try and if the groups don't tighten up it will be sold.

jonnyc · February 6, 2012, 08:19 PM

My 9mm HP carbine is super reliable and dead-nuts accurate at 50 yds. Really likes 147 grain bullets. Get a 995 and put it in an ATI stock...looks great, just like a Beretta CX4. Only drawback, and I mean only, is the small mag size. They have a super customer service rep, so anyone with a "jam-o-matic" is just plain too lazy to send it in.

GunXpatriot · February 7, 2012, 01:19 AM

Yeah, I always wondered why people complain when they will fix it for you. I dont really care, it's cheap and it's reliable. If not, I'll send it in.

As for the calibe, still not entirely sure... hmm...

bigghoss · February 7, 2012, 01:46 AM

Certainly the .45acp would be more effective. Since both have the same capacity, which is to say not much, .45 is the way to go.

Keep in mind, as has already been pointed out, it's not going to be much better than a handgun anyway except maybe in terms of shoot-ability. A good AR15 is a better choice but they do cost 5X as much. But it has a HUGE advantage in every other category except weight where it's probably a draw or dang near.

GunXpatriot · February 7, 2012, 03:44 AM

Well to tell you the truth, I'm not really buying it because I can't afford something of better quality, but because I am interested in this specific firearm. Not to say I'm rich, because that's light years away from where I am.

Actually, I was hoping to buy an AR from Rock River Arms sometime in the next year or so. Hopefully I do get it. Either that or I might go for an Arsenal AK. Not quite sure yet.

chris in va · February 7, 2012, 04:15 AM

My 9mm broke three times. Pretty fun while it lasted though.

tahunua001 · February 7, 2012, 07:27 AM

Quote:

I was looking around youtube and found out about hi-points extremely affordable carbines. I haven't found one complaint on them and I've looked for a LOT of feedback. People say they dont look too good, but I kinda like the way they look.

congratulations! you have overcome the largest gripe aout hi points, they are ugly, if you like it then good on you.

Quote:

Would a .45acp be more useful over a 9mm in a carbine? I mean, yeah, it has more stopping power, but both will have somewhat increased velocity, so I think the 9mm would be pretty sufficient?

what is the rifle intended for? if it's going to just be used for killing soup cans and pop bottles then it's not going to matter either way. if you are looking at home defense then I would recommend a pistol over carbine regardless of caliber however both have more than enough stopping power for humans. if you actually want to hunt with it then I would say that the 9mm would be good for varmints and coyotes if you can get then within 150 yards. the 45 I would say should be able to take a deer if you're picky with your shots and keep it inside 150 yards.

Quote:

Ammo Prices... I'm honestly not familiar with any of the 3 cartridges. Don't own any pistols. All are available where I live, 9mm and .45acp seem more popular, but as a result, it would seem .40S&W is generally more plentiful. How do prices compare between cheap plinking ammo and premium defense ammo?

9mm blows 45 and 40 out of the water on ammo prices. if you buy bulk you can get about 1000 rounds of 9mm for $200 while .40 and .45 are both right around $300 per 1000 for the cheapest of the cheap.

Quote:

Final question. Is .40S&W an intermediate cartridge between 9 and 40? Some say yes, some say no. Anyone have any more information on such a thing?

you would be correct. a lot of guys think that the 40 is superior to both but in reality most factory loads are inferior to both .45 and 9 in at least 1 of the 4 major ballistics categories(velocity, energy, bullet drop and bullet drift) while having snappier recoil than both. you can generally hold more ammo in 40 than 45 but less than 9mm. I'm a 1 or the other type guy, if I want ammo capacity I go with 9mm, if I want stopping power and gaping wound, I go with 45.

Quote:

Sorry to be a total bother, but I figured it's way easier to get info on an extremely active forum than searching google for hours!

that's what these forums are here for

aarondhgraham · February 7, 2012, 01:05 PM

It's like a Timex or the Energizer bunny,,,
It just keeps on shooting and shooting.

I'm about 2/3 through a 600 round bulk buy of PMC Bronze from Cabela's,,,
My ugly little carbine hasn't jammed or failed one time so far.

Aarond

chewie146 · February 7, 2012, 01:16 PM

The carbine slaps my cheek some, but that little 9mm will run and run with anything from 115 grain brown bear to cor-bon hollowpoints. Try some 147 subsonics out of it. They don't really sound like any gun report I can compare it to, but they're sure quiet.

Rodger_p · February 7, 2012, 03:01 PM

I do Like my 9mm Hi Point carbine.

Works every time, any type of ammo.

GunXpatriot · February 8, 2012, 01:17 AM

Thanks to all of you guys for your feedback, it is much appreciated. Tahunua001, I need to give you a virtual bro hug. That was so much good information in one reply that my brain cannot process it. Thanks dude!

Well actually, I've got a 12 Gauge pump for home defense. It's real intended use was of course as a fun gun on the property/range, but also if SHTF or any sort of civil unrest came along. Kind of a preppers gun for me if need be. *dont tell the mods I said such things.

Again, thank you guys for great info. If anyone can still post their feedback, that would be great!

arentol · February 8, 2012, 01:51 AM

Both 9mm and .45acp pretty much stop gaining power once your barrel gets over 12" and they both start losing power after 16". So you want a barrel in the 12-16" range, and for it to not be a SBR that means 16" only.

Personally I went with a Keltec Sub2000 in 9mm. The Sub-2k is a great gun, accurate enough to 100 yards, utterly reliable, and as simple as can be in form and function. I bought the Glock 17 version, so it takes 33 round magazines as well, which are a ton of fun. I also got myself a Glock 17 so I have matching guns for my Bug-Out-Bag. The best part though is that it folds in half so it fits in a backpack, or even on a sling under a long jacket where it deploys in under 5 seconds, including loading.

February 6, 2012, 05:47 PM	#1
GunXpatriot Senior Member Join Date: November 28, 2011 Location: New York Posts: 393	9mm Carbine vs .45acp Carbine? I was looking around youtube and found out about hi-points extremely affordable carbines. I haven't found one complaint on them and I've looked for a LOT of feedback. People say they dont look too good, but I kinda like the way they look. Anyway, I plan on getting one. I've always wanted a rifle in 9mm or .45acp. I think I'll pass on the .40s&w as of right now. Would a .45acp be more useful over a 9mm in a carbine? I mean, yeah, it has more stopping power, but both will have somewhat increased velocity, so I think the 9mm would be pretty sufficient? Ammo Prices... I'm honestly not familiar with any of the 3 cartridges. Don't own any pistols. All are available where I live, 9mm and .45acp seem more popular, but as a result, it would seem .40S&W is generally more plentiful. How do prices compare between cheap plinking ammo and premium defense ammo? Final question. Is .40S&W an intermediate cartridge between 9 and 40? Some say yes, some say no. Anyone have any more information on such a thing? Sorry to be a total bother, but I figured it's way easier to get info on an extremely active forum than searching google for hours! Thanks for any help you can give me.

February 6, 2012, 06:04 PM	#2
loose_holster_dan Senior Member Join Date: April 5, 2011 Location: NE Ohio Posts: 2,461	pass and pass. i just don't get the draw of a handgun round coming out of a carbine sized weapon unless it's full auto. 45 is no cheaper to shoot than 223. some 9mm handguns have 19 round mags and are extremely easy to handle recoil-wise for quick accurate follow up shots. __________________ Favorite range gun for the money - CZ 75B or STI Spartan V 9mm Go-to carry setup - Walther PPS or PPQ in FIST kydex holster 1AK Favorite semi-auto design - HK P7 "A Sig is like a lightsaber - not as clumsy or random as a Glock."

February 6, 2012, 07:39 PM	#4
Jim243 Senior Member Join Date: January 5, 2009 Location: Just off Route 66 Posts: 5,067	I have to admit that I do not understand the alure of the pistol caliber in a carbine. Mine is a 223 AR. But, my best friend just ordered a Hi-Point (they were on sale) with all the bells and whistles. He ordered a 40 S&W which I consider closer to a 45 ACP than a 9mm. Since he has a CZ in 40 as well as a PT-101 in 40 it would make sense for him. If it was me, I would have bought the 9mm since it will hold more rounds and be faster out the barrel and maybe a little more range. Me I like 25 grains of gunpowder behind a 60 grain bullet than 5 grains of gunpowder behind a 180 grain bullet. But, that's me. The nice thing is you can shoot it in an indoor range as well as outside. And close in, I don't think it would be any less effective than an AR. This is his first black gun (finally) even though he has a Mini-14 (Ranch Rifle). Just my 2 cents. Jim __________________ Si vis pacem, para bellum

February 6, 2012, 07:51 PM	#5
Willie Lowman Senior Member Join Date: March 5, 2009 Location: Uh-Hi-O Posts: 3,006	I have been very impressed by the accuracy of the Hi=Point carbines. I have never been impressed by the reliability or quality of manufacture of any Hi-Point firearm. I can't say that if you gave me one for free I wouldn't take it. I have in fact won a Hi-Point 995 carbine in a drawing last spring. I sold that jam-o-mattic at the first gunshow I could find. __________________ "9mm has a very long history of being a pointy little bullet moving quickly" --Sevens

February 7, 2012, 01:46 AM	#9
bigghoss Senior Member Join Date: September 15, 2006 Location: Pueblo, Colorado Posts: 2,664	Certainly the .45acp would be more effective. Since both have the same capacity, which is to say not much, .45 is the way to go. Keep in mind, as has already been pointed out, it's not going to be much better than a handgun anyway except maybe in terms of shoot-ability. A good AR15 is a better choice but they do cost 5X as much. But it has a HUGE advantage in every other category except weight where it's probably a draw or dang near. __________________ I don't collect guns, I accumulate them.

February 6, 2012, 07:19 PM	#3
SIGSHR Senior Member Join Date: September 13, 2005 Posts: 4,700	I have the Marlin Camp Carbines in 9MM and 45ACP. The former takes the magazines for my S&W M659, the latter magazines for the M1911, hence, you can have a long arm and sidearm taking the same cartridge and magazine. The 9MM has the advantage in velocity and penetration, especially with FMJ bullets, the 45ACP is pretty much the better manstopper. Recoil with both in a longarm is very mild. In a longarm both are 50 yard cartridges, 75 yards tops, maybe 100 yards in a pinch.

February 6, 2012, 08:03 PM	#6
arch308 Senior Member Join Date: November 6, 2011 Location: DFW, Texas Posts: 876	I have a Hi-Point 45 carbine. It has never jammed on me. Function has never been a problem. Accuracy is another matter. I don't consider 6" groups @ 50 yds good. Maybe it is just me but I am generally a better shot than that. This is with a scope. Could be the cheap scope or mount, I don't know. I got so disgusted with it I put it up and didn't mess with it thru hunting season. Plan to give it one more try and if the groups don't tighten up it will be sold.

February 6, 2012, 08:19 PM	#7
jonnyc Senior Member Join Date: July 20, 2009 Location: PA Posts: 1,731	My 9mm HP carbine is super reliable and dead-nuts accurate at 50 yds. Really likes 147 grain bullets. Get a 995 and put it in an ATI stock...looks great, just like a Beretta CX4. Only drawback, and I mean only, is the small mag size. They have a super customer service rep, so anyone with a "jam-o-matic" is just plain too lazy to send it in.

February 7, 2012, 01:19 AM	#8
GunXpatriot Senior Member Join Date: November 28, 2011 Location: New York Posts: 393	Yeah, I always wondered why people complain when they will fix it for you. I dont really care, it's cheap and it's reliable. If not, I'll send it in. As for the calibe, still not entirely sure... hmm...

February 7, 2012, 03:44 AM	#10
GunXpatriot Senior Member Join Date: November 28, 2011 Location: New York Posts: 393	Well to tell you the truth, I'm not really buying it because I can't afford something of better quality, but because I am interested in this specific firearm. Not to say I'm rich, because that's light years away from where I am. Actually, I was hoping to buy an AR from Rock River Arms sometime in the next year or so. Hopefully I do get it. Either that or I might go for an Arsenal AK. Not quite sure yet.

February 7, 2012, 04:15 AM	#11
chris in va Senior Member Join Date: December 26, 2004 Location: Louisville KY Posts: 13,806	My 9mm broke three times. Pretty fun while it lasted though.

February 7, 2012, 01:05 PM	#13
aarondhgraham Senior Member Join Date: December 1, 2009 Location: Stillwater, OKlahoma Posts: 8,638	I likes me 9mm Hi-Point,,, It's like a Timex or the Energizer bunny,,, It just keeps on shooting and shooting. I'm about 2/3 through a 600 round bulk buy of PMC Bronze from Cabela's,,, My ugly little carbine hasn't jammed or failed one time so far. Aarond __________________ Never ever give an enemy the advantage of a verbal threat. Caje: The coward dies a thousand times, the brave only once. Kirby: That's about all it takes, ain't it? Aarond is good,,, Aarond is wise,,, Always trust Aarond! (most of the time)

February 7, 2012, 01:16 PM	#14
chewie146 Senior Member Join Date: October 25, 2010 Location: New Mexico Posts: 853	The carbine slaps my cheek some, but that little 9mm will run and run with anything from 115 grain brown bear to cor-bon hollowpoints. Try some 147 subsonics out of it. They don't really sound like any gun report I can compare it to, but they're sure quiet.

February 7, 2012, 03:01 PM	#15
Rodger_p Senior Member Join Date: December 15, 2004 Location: East TN. Posts: 207	I do Like my 9mm Hi Point carbine. Works every time, any type of ammo.

February 8, 2012, 01:17 AM	#16
GunXpatriot Senior Member Join Date: November 28, 2011 Location: New York Posts: 393	Thanks to all of you guys for your feedback, it is much appreciated. Tahunua001, I need to give you a virtual bro hug. That was so much good information in one reply that my brain cannot process it. Thanks dude! Well actually, I've got a 12 Gauge pump for home defense. It's real intended use was of course as a fun gun on the property/range, but also if SHTF or any sort of civil unrest came along. Kind of a preppers gun for me if need be. *dont tell the mods I said such things. Again, thank you guys for great info. If anyone can still post their feedback, that would be great!

February 8, 2012, 01:51 AM	#17
arentol Senior Member Join Date: December 11, 2011 Posts: 230	Both 9mm and .45acp pretty much stop gaining power once your barrel gets over 12" and they both start losing power after 16". So you want a barrel in the 12-16" range, and for it to not be a SBR that means 16" only. Personally I went with a Keltec Sub2000 in 9mm. The Sub-2k is a great gun, accurate enough to 100 yards, utterly reliable, and as simple as can be in form and function. I bought the Glock 17 version, so it takes 33 round magazines as well, which are a ton of fun. I also got myself a Glock 17 so I have matching guns for my Bug-Out-Bag. The best part though is that it folds in half so it fits in a backpack, or even on a sling under a long jacket where it deploys in under 5 seconds, including loading.

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