Help Identifying Flintlock

otisrush · December 9, 2010, 10:46 PM

I'd be interested if anyone can enlighten me on this piece. I posted some of these pics n another forum and, while people were convinced it is a replica, they weren't sure what it was a replica *of*.

I got this from my Dad. I know he had it in about 1960. I don't know anything about how he got it or what he *thought* it was. It's a smooth bore. .75" bore diameter. Barrel length is 38". Overall length is 56".

Thanks a ton for any insight/info anyone could provide.

OR

Overall view:

Left side of stock:

Lock:

Bottom of stock:

Barrel stamps:

mapsjanhere · December 9, 2010, 11:46 PM

The crown over BP and crown over BP say Birmingham 1925 - 1954. So, you got a 12 gauge shotgun replica made in the first half of the 20th century.

otisrush · December 9, 2010, 11:56 PM

Thanks a lot.

When you say "Say Birmingham....." do you mean those specific marks help you place it in that timeframe? Or do you mean that '12' has some significance? I'm trying to learn / interpret markings like this.

Thanks again.

OR

**4V50 Gary** · December 10, 2010, 12:02 AM

A back action lock that has a separate flint mechanism? Barrel bands too? It looks like it was cobbled together from leftovers to sell for the African trade. Still, it appears to be well made.

mapsjanhere · December 10, 2010, 07:44 AM

Yes, made in England in that time frame. Before 1925 they used a cursive font for the stamp, and after 1954 they abandoned the BV stamp.

Jim Watson · December 10, 2010, 09:07 AM

Agree with Gary.
A back action lock with the frizzen on a separate plate looks to me like it was downconverted from percussion to flint to make a trade musket. I think it was probably reamed out to smoothbore from a surplus rifle musket, too. The broad barrel bands and spring retainers were military standard in those days.

The back action lock and finger groove trigger guard tang look like French design. Probably a British outfit bought up French surplus to modify and proof in Birmingham for the African trade market.

The checkering is suspiciously nice for a real trade gun, I am thinking of an inexpensive wall hanger. Stoeger sold stuff like this up into the 1970s and I bet Dad got it that way.

otisrush · December 10, 2010, 08:02 PM

Can someone explain the term "African trade market"? I'm not familiar with it.

Thx.

OR

Hawg · December 10, 2010, 08:59 PM

The stock and barrel hardware have an Austrian Lorenz look, especially the nose cap. However the lock plate outline doesn't. Weird but definitely military origins for the hardware.

Jim Watson · December 10, 2010, 09:27 PM

Quote:

explain the term "African trade market"?

In the colonial era it was usual for trading posts to sell obsolete weapons to native tribesmen. It let them hunt more efficiently without posing any military threat to the colonial government.
Flintlock muzzleloaders hung on in that market for a long long time.

December 9, 2010, 10:46 PM	#1
otisrush Member Join Date: December 9, 2010 Posts: 63	Help Identifying Flintlock I'd be interested if anyone can enlighten me on this piece. I posted some of these pics n another forum and, while people were convinced it is a replica, they weren't sure what it was a replica of. I got this from my Dad. I know he had it in about 1960. I don't know anything about how he got it or what he thought it was. It's a smooth bore. .75" bore diameter. Barrel length is 38". Overall length is 56". Thanks a ton for any insight/info anyone could provide. OR Overall view: Left side of stock: Lock: Bottom of stock: Barrel stamps:

December 9, 2010, 11:46 PM	#2
mapsjanhere Senior Member Join Date: August 6, 2009 Location: Albuquerque Posts: 2,832	The crown over BP and crown over BP say Birmingham 1925 - 1954. So, you got a 12 gauge shotgun replica made in the first half of the 20th century. __________________ I used to love being able to hit hard at 1000 yards. As I get older I find hitting a mini ram at 200 yards with the 22 oddly more satisfying.

December 10, 2010, 12:02 AM	#4
4V50 Gary Staff Join Date: November 2, 1998 Location: Colorado Posts: 21,832	A back action lock that has a separate flint mechanism? Barrel bands too? It looks like it was cobbled together from leftovers to sell for the African trade. Still, it appears to be well made. __________________ Vigilantibus et non dormientibus jura subveniunt. *Molon Labe!*

December 10, 2010, 07:44 AM	#5
mapsjanhere Senior Member Join Date: August 6, 2009 Location: Albuquerque Posts: 2,832	Yes, made in England in that time frame. Before 1925 they used a cursive font for the stamp, and after 1954 they abandoned the BV stamp. __________________ I used to love being able to hit hard at 1000 yards. As I get older I find hitting a mini ram at 200 yards with the 22 oddly more satisfying.

December 9, 2010, 11:56 PM	#3
otisrush Member Join Date: December 9, 2010 Posts: 63	Thanks a lot. When you say "Say Birmingham....." do you mean those specific marks help you place it in that timeframe? Or do you mean that '12' has some significance? I'm trying to learn / interpret markings like this. Thanks again. OR

December 10, 2010, 09:07 AM	#6
Jim Watson Senior Member Join Date: October 25, 2001 Location: Alabama Posts: 18,539	Agree with Gary. A back action lock with the frizzen on a separate plate looks to me like it was downconverted from percussion to flint to make a trade musket. I think it was probably reamed out to smoothbore from a surplus rifle musket, too. The broad barrel bands and spring retainers were military standard in those days. The back action lock and finger groove trigger guard tang look like French design. Probably a British outfit bought up French surplus to modify and proof in Birmingham for the African trade market. The checkering is suspiciously nice for a real trade gun, I am thinking of an inexpensive wall hanger. Stoeger sold stuff like this up into the 1970s and I bet Dad got it that way.

December 10, 2010, 08:02 PM	#7
otisrush Member Join Date: December 9, 2010 Posts: 63	Can someone explain the term "African trade market"? I'm not familiar with it. Thx. OR

December 10, 2010, 08:59 PM	#8
Hawg Senior Member Join Date: September 8, 2007 Location: Mississippi Posts: 16,188	The stock and barrel hardware have an Austrian Lorenz look, especially the nose cap. However the lock plate outline doesn't. Weird but definitely military origins for the hardware.