reloading 45 acp

[Brian Pfleuger]

Originally Posted by rebs

I have never heard of a pass through die until I read this in this thread. I have had zero problems reloading target loads for a Colt Gold Cup. 4.2 of bullseye with a 200 grn lswc.

Is this more critical for reloading jacketed bullets or does it apply to the case when reloading any 45 acp bullets ?

It's not critical at all. Very few folks do it in any caliber, .40SW with its infamous "Glock Smilie" being the exception. Even in 40 it's rarely necessary, typically only older guns with their generous chambers might need it. I don't recall ever hearing of any one doing it as a matter of course across all cartridges.

[polyphemus]

Is this more critical for reloading jacketed bullets or does it apply to the case when reloading any 45 acp bullets ?

No,to both questions.
This step is purely elective,if you are experiencing failure to chamber issues
because of deformed cases then chances are this is a sign of overpressure,
you need to re examine your powder charges and adjust accordingly.
Otherwise if it ain't broke.Peace of mind on my book comes from paying attention to what I'm doing and measuring afterwards.

[Nick_C_S]

The only justification I can give (re push-though dies) . . . my cases will feed without any issues and always goes to battery and they do.

I do it to eliminate any possibility of case bulging being a feeding issue. I figure: if you can make the case straight throughout its length, then you should make the case straight throughout its length.

But I completely agree; it is an elective process. It's also a process that wouldn't incorporate well with a progressive press (this being one of many reasons why I'm reluctant to go progressive).

[polyphemus]

I figure: if you can make the case straight throughout its length, then you should make the case straight throughout its length

.45 Auto SAAMI calls for .476" at the web and .473 at the mouth.
What dimensions are you going by when you run your cases thru the die?

[OzeanJaeger]

Technically, many "straight walled", auto pistol cases (including Luger) are actually slightly tapered from the factory. You need your caliper to tell, but it's there.

I run my .45 ACP on a Dillon 550B, using Dillon carbide dies and have never had a feed or chambering issue in the Colts, Springfields, or RIAs I run them in. None of my Government M style pistols seem to be finicky though. That said, I'm probably more anal that most about tossing brass before it's on it's last leg.

[Brian Pfleuger]

Originally Posted by OzeanJaeger

Technically, many "straight walled", auto pistol cases (including Luger) are actually slightly tapered from the factory. You need your caliper to tell, but it's there.



I run my .45 ACP on a Dillon 550B, using Dillon carbide dies and have never had a feed or chambering issue in the Colts, Springfields, or RIAs I run them in. None of my Government M style pistols seem to be finicky though. That said, I'm probably more anal that most about tossing brass before it's on it's last leg.

The "straight wall" cartridges are not perfectly straight but they're no where near as tapered as "tapered cartridges".

The .45acp tapers 0.003" over 0.650". The 9mm tapers 0.0099 over 0.5". 333% as much in 3/4 the distance.

[Nick_C_S]

.45 Auto SAAMI calls for .476" at the web and .473 at the mouth.

Learn something every day.

What dimensions are you going by when you run your cases thru the die?

I don't know. That's a question for Lee - the manufacturer of the die. I figure they're a lot smarter than me and created a die with the proper dimensions.

[polyphemus]

That's a question for Lee - the manufacturer of the die. I figure they're a lot smarter than me and created a die with the proper dimensions

I don't know about smarter,they make the tools you use.
It sounds like a pair of mics and possibly a vernier caliper would be a good addition to your set.Take this as friendly advice nothing else,if you don't measure what you do then you have no control over your work and any mistakes
will go undetected.Be safe man

[lee n. field]

The part I hate is having to run them through one die to resize, another die to bell the mouth and a final to seat the bullet. Wish there was an easier way.

Uhhhh. That's kind of the way it works. The only easier way is to buy it.

And, actually, I crimp separately as a 4th step.

[lee n. field]

Time to get a turret press from Lee. A Classic turret press is less than $100 and it will speed thing up.

It will cost a bunch more than that to set it up right.

[DaleA]

Rebs-Sheesh! Your#1 pretty much disses the whole reloading process!

Are you using a single stage press?

That's how I got started (and stayed with it for many years and many thousands of rounds) but now when people ask me I tell them if they are reasonably careful...an 'attention to detail' type of guy (or gal) then feel free to go to a progressive as your first reloading press. It isn't rocket science. When I finally got one I was totally flabbergasted about how much ammo I could turn out during a reloading session.

I never got a turret press and never even looked into what they were until recently but after watching some videos of them in action I am really impressed. Looks like you get a good production rate and you honestly have practically the same amount of control over each reloading step as with a single stage. I don't suppose I should be allowed to say I'm a real fan of turret presses since I never used one but they sure look like they would do the job.

Incidentally-your recipe of 200 grain lead swc and 4.2 grains of Bullseye-that's just plain old .45 ACP goodness. (I used a tad less powder but that's a classic recipe for target shooters.)

Good luck.

[lee n. field]

How accurate and reliable is the Lee powder dump to go with a Lee classic turret ?

Some powders are said (Interwebz gunboard hearsay, YMMV) have problems metering well in the Autodisk. Something like Bullseye, is fine.

Is there any safe guard against a double charge ?

The ultimate safeguard is looking. But, really, the only way to double charge is to stop on the down stroke before the rotor cycles to the next station, and lift the ram again. If you're doing it right, it ain't going to happen.

Will my rcbs dies and shell holders work in the classic press ?

Yes to the shell holder. Yes to the dies, with the proviso that the Autodisk powder measure integrates with Lee's powder through expander die. You will want one of those. They are available separately.

[rebs]

Thank you guys for all the replies, I appreciate it.

[Ole 5 hole group]

rebs - If you have the money to spend, just get a 5-station progressive such as the Hornady LnL or a Dillon 650 - that will cure your problem. As for the accuracy of the powder drop, I can only speak for the Hornady and it's normally spot-on but with some rifle powders it can be off +/- 0.05.

You can always purchase the Redding dual ring carbide sizing die if you want to get your 45 ACP back to it's factory spec's - same can be said for the 45 Colt cartridge using the Redding dual carbide ring die. That die runs $100 but if you're looking for peace of mind relative to case spec's - that die would serve you better than a pass-through but at a higher cost.

I've known several NRA "high master class" bullseye shooters that have reloaded 45 ACP for decades using just the run of the mill resizing die, so I doubt these new resizing methods will do much, except to lighten you wallet a little. (In a weak moment, I purchased the Redding die when they first came out - never had a problem before, still don't - scores haven't improved and my wallet is lighter.)

[snuffy]

I never got a turret press and never even looked into what they were until recently but after watching some videos of them in action I am really impressed. Looks like you get a good production rate and you honestly have practically the same amount of control over each reloading step as with a single stage. I don't suppose I should be allowed to say I'm a real fan of turret presses since I never used one but they sure look like they would do the job.

That's not true for ALL ""turret"" presses. The older designs by Lyman, Redding, RCBS, AND OTHERS just hold all dies in sequence, they do AUTO ADVANCE like the lee classic turret does.

Here is a video by a late friend you will find enjoyable.http://youtu.be/YcT6Tyv4Unw

While that was entertaining, he never got around to actually telling a newbee ANYTHING about basic reloading. That AND suggesting that's okay to swill booze while loading, and dissing lee equipment,(which will cut the cost by a large amount for a new reloader), he has a lot of dollars of very advanced reloading equipment there.

It is possible to avoid most steps including case preparation,simply buy primed brass it is readily available.Not getting around powder charging and bullet seating though.

Primed brass still has to be at least partially inserted into a FL die to get the mouth round It also has to be flared and expanded.

In addition to the excellent Lee Classic turret that puts all your dies in sequence, there is another way.... if you're shooting jacketed or plated bullets. Skip the flare, you don't need it and then you can skip the crimp too.

I seldom disagree with petza killer AKA Brian, but unless a semi-auto pistol case is either flared or heavily inside chamfered, it will scrape copper off the side of plated or jacketed bullets.

Yes, reloading is sometimes a bit of work, but good things are never handed to you. Every time I look at a freshly loaded round, I see dollar signs. Well a whole box of 45's that is ¼ the price of a factory loaded box*! ((*My own cast boolits makes that possible)).

[Brian Pfleuger]

Originally Posted by snuffy

unless a semi-auto pistol case is either flared or heavily inside chamfered, it will scrape copper off the side of plated or jacketed bullets.

It might but I haven't found it to hurt anything if it does. I haven't seen it happen, personally, but I only load a few cartridges so I can't say none will. I load 10mm, .357sig and .357mag without any flare. I use Hornady, Speer and Montana Gold bullets. Softer plated bullets are probably more susceptible to being scraped. I haven't flared a case in a couple of years.

I guess each person should try it and see what happens. It helps a lot with preventing bullet set-back.

[Sevens]

To add to the discussion of attempting to load without *ANY* case mouth flaring at all, I'm going to have to say that there is never going to be a catch-all answer for this and as a guy that has literally used dozens of difference sources for both jacketed and plated handgun bullets over the years, what works with ONE particular group of slugs may very well NOT even come close to working with another.

A few ten-thousandths seems almost microscopic but when you're trying to slip-fit something inside something else, you'll realize a TREMENDOUS difference in small variances.

Personally, my best advice would be to experiment FAR MORE with your case mouth flare die than most folks do. Less is more, really, right up until less is not enough.

[reloader28]

If you get too bored, pick up one of the Lee wack-a-mole type loaders.
It would probly make you go back to your single stage press more happy.

I've never used one, but a friend has one for 30-06 that I've thought about borrowing just to play with.

[serf 'rett]

Ahha...Peetza Killer you had me wondering about that no-flair-needed stuff. Now I see you are loading "real" bullets, not the plated and lead projectiles I stuff in cases. I do agree with the minimalist approach on case mouth expansion (the less I expand and crimp the longer the brass life approach). I do find I sometimes get lead scraping even with expanding the case mouth.

And what an educational thread – we now know how Clark comes up with his “proof test” loads.
I also will drag the portable bench into the den for Saturday college football, sizing, expanding, sorting; no powder allowed.

Rebs – Be thankful you don’t de-prime before you wet tumble with sst pins (a whole additional process) and seat and crimp in separate steps.

I’ve never had a problem with de-Glocking the range pick up 40S&W brass with my RCBS die; runs in my gun so I never saw a need for the pass through die.

[Brian Pfleuger]

Originally Posted by serf 'rett

I do find I sometimes get lead scraping even with expanding the case mouth.

Yes, it won't likely work with lead. It does work with Speer Gold Dots, which are actually a thick plating rather than a jacket.

Ordinary plated bullets, I don't know. I'd try it anyway. Unless it scrapes off enough to really damage the bullet it's still going to be better than a flare and crimp for bullet setback.

I'd rather chamfer a knife edge onto the brass than flare it.

Each reloader should try the various methods and see what they like best.

[OverPressure]

I will pass on adjustment and just say that Rebs 200 gr. LSWC is a load
that i have quite a bit of experience with.

I load SNS 200 gr semi wad cutters as many as 5000 in a run, using 4.2
gr. of Clays Standard.

The method i settled into was depriming and resizing the cases. I just sit there
for half an hour or so and deprime 500 or more, then tumble them.

I usually get a couple thousand of them ready to prime and use the classic
loader to prime these cases. I found it much more efficient than going step
by step. I don't even order bullets untill i have 3 or 4 thousand cases primed.

Now being ready to load a i check bullet length on the first ten or so and
then crank out a hundred. With LSWC it is easy to see if your bullet lengh
is changing, probably not so with jacketed bullets!

After a 100 rds i reload the hopper and recheck the OAL. Usually there are
no adjustments to be maid and i get back to it!

I don't think a double charge should ever be a worry. NEVER WALK AWAY
FROM YOUR LOADER WITH A CASE IN THE CASE HOLDER!!

I am sure it isn't necessary to stress the point that these processes don't
lend to outside distractions!!!

[HiBC]

If you are not ready to buy a progressive,for $30 to $ 60 you can get another light duty single stage press.

Mount them side by side,even a little twisted,so from one stool you can easily operate both handles.I mount a powder measure stand between,with room for a 50 rd load block on each side.

I assume you pick your brass up off the ground.Its gritty.The grit will embed in the brass andcut your dies,even carbide.

So,I suggest you run all your brass through a Lee universal de-cap die,then tumble it clean.
There,you have clean,deprimed brass.Quit while its still fun,if you just did 500.

Another time,put your sizer die in your stronger press.The left,if you are right handed.Put your deap/expnder/bell die in the right hand press.

You do not need the decap pin,as you already deprimed.

Now,you put the brass in the left,sizer press,stroke,transfer to the right,bell press.

Go have dinner.Relax.


If you have a good auto feed hand priming tool,like an RCBS,you can watch a movie or whatever,and prime.Check each one for flush,but,its like eating pistachios.


So now you have primed,belled brass!!


Right press,seater die,set to just remove the bell,and seat.Left press, press,taper crimp die.Powder measure,full and set.

Pick up a piece of brass,dump powder in it.Look!Set it in the right press,grab the handle.Left hand corks a bullet on it.Seat.

Move it to the left press,crimp.Do a QC visual,then in the "done" bucket.


IMO,if its broken up to just doing an operation or two,you will be sharper,more focused.It won't be such drudgery.

Keep it fun!!

If you mosly want to feed a handgun,a Dillon SquareDeal is quite a press!.It won't load rifle,though.

[jj320]

i heard of pass through dies when i started loading glock brass. You get a bulge at the bottom of the brass from un supported chambers.

[stubbicatt]

delete

[HiBC]

On loading without belling:Whatever works for you,but if you are scraping a little bullet metal forward on the case mouth;its a problem.

Don't forget how a rimless handgun round headspaces.A little scraped bullet metal can be enough to keep a slide from fully locking up.

Its not unusual for a disconnect to allow the pistol to fire with the lugs only 50% engaged.Not good for barrels and slides.

The operation of inspecting and scraping off any pushed bullet jacket material is not fun,either.

I give credit to the Lyman "M" die.Maybe Hornady does this too,the "bell" operation is more of a short "neck up"to make an easy entrance for the bullet.It does not work the brass so much,and provides a short pilot diameter.

I wonder,if you do not bell,do you have more bullets seat tilted?

I recall a batch of 500 9x18 s a friend loaded...the cases were a little odd because the bullets were not seated straight.Troublesome!!Did not chamber well.