King of deer calibers?

[Noreaster]

On a side note I hunted the Northern part of NH and the 32 special and 35 Remington were really big up there as a combination bear and deer rifle. I can't remember seeing a box of 32 special for sale anywhere until I reached COOS county.

[Kachok]

Again nothing wrong with 35 Remingtons, 30-30s or even 44 magnums just so long as you can live with their range limitation, I don't know a single 35 rem fanatic that will claim it is a better past 200 yards then a 270. Larger calibers tend to make a more free bleeding wound and hence better trails when hunting in the brush, but that is the only advantage a 35 Rem has over a 6.5 Creedmoore and it is not a must have, never had any trouble finding my game after shooting with my 6.5x55. Unless you stack the contest criteria to a very limited range the 30-30 and such won't hold a candle to the ballisticly superior platforms, does not mean they don't work just that for all around usefulness and versatility they won't compete with the A+ grade cartridges.

[Kachok]

All this talk of effective range makes me want to make one important note though, I would MUCH rather hunt with someone who can stalk to within 75 yards then someone who can hit them at 500 yards. Of course many experienced hunters know that there are times the long shot is the only one you will get, anyone else lived in West Texas?

[Model12Win]

.300 Win Mag.

[reynolds357]

Kachok, I used to stalk deer. In this area, it is now almost impossible. Since the invasion of the Yote, the deer are very keen. They travel in much larger groups than I observed in the past. They are always looking, smelling, and listening. Sneaking up on one deer was not that bad. Sneaking up on 4 to 6 is quite the problem. The bucks even travel together. During peak of rut I see some lone bucks, but that is the only time. Just a few weeks ago, during peek rut, I observed 5 bucks traveling together. I have seen that in the past with immature bucks, but this group had one old mature buck and 4 two to three year olds. Never saw that stuff prior to the yote.

[Kachok]

Yeah experienced some keen mulies out in West Texas, pretty sharp critters good luck getting close to one during the daylight hours anyway. Nice to have a good long range rifle for them, white tail are a little less so, pretty easy to just walk up to 30-30 range with them for the most part even in open bean fields.

[gb_in_ga]

An awful lot of it has to do with where you are. The ability to make a 500 yard shot is meaningless when the terrain you hunt is such that you'll never have a shot over 200 yards, ever. Thus, lots of people will be perfectly happy with a round that is pretty much useless out past 200 yards or so. If you are hunting in places where the deer, even the big bucks, are pretty dinky then you don't need a whole lot of firepower to bring one down. Thus, there are places like Central and South Texas where you may have a mix of thick brush and long ranges but the deer are physically small compared to other locales. There, you might find that the "King" is something not on your list -- like the .257 Roberts for instance. In other places you only have thick woods, short ranges and heavy bodied deer and the "King" will be something completely different, like a .35 Rem or a .358 Win. Or maybe the old .45-70.

There is no one "King".

FWIW, if I were to have to pick just 1 to do everything, I'd go with a .308 Win. It may not be the best at anything, but it does everything reasonably well. Besides that, I'm a southpaw and I detest right handed bolt action rifles. And I prefer short actions. You can get left handed .308 bolt action rifles. You can get .308 lever action rifles. You can get .308 autoloaders. It is ubiquitous and it gets the job done.

[gb_in_ga]

Feel free to disagree if you like but that is the way I see it, the most damage I have ever done to a deer's vitals was not with a 450 Marlin or 300 Win Mag but a little 120gr pill from a 6.5x55 literally liquified the chest cavity from the liver forward.

Gotcha beat. My father, using a 7mm Rem Mag using 150 gr Nosler Partition handload hit a smallish Texas Hill Country deer in a front quartering shot at close-ish range, about 100 yards. It blew out the shoulder it hit, and the other shoulder too via the shock. It liquified the chest cavity and the guts. It blew out the other side ham on the way out. It left only 1 ham usable. It was kinda pitiful, and we were sad for the waste.

There's a time and a place for big magnums. That wasn't it.

But then using that criteria, my 7MM Remington would be the King over the 270. Flatter, faster, less wind drift, and more powerful at longer range.

But it also blows deer into goo. Seen that first hand.

[Kachok]

Remember I am talking about the all around "King" sure the 243 will penetrate enough for coastal deer, but if you are talking about very thick bodied deer you might want a couple sizes larger caliber to ensure through and through penetration, and granted if you hunt southern bean fields you might want 500 yards effective range where that is not a concern up the eastern sea board. But all things considered the 6.5 Creedmoore does it all with a little extra in a short action with a bare minimum of recoil. All in all I don't think you could find a better deer cartridge. Name me one situation inside 500 yards where it is inadequate, or a lower recoil cartridge that is adequate for every such situation. The remarkable efficiency is what makes it king, internal efficiency of the short action 65k psi case, external efficiency or a 6.5mm and terminal efficiency of a .280+SD that is sure to penetrate even on off angle raking shots.
The Creedmoore is going to be my next purchase, granted it won't do anything my 6.5x55 won't but it will do just as much in a true short action.

[gb_in_ga]

Remember I am talking about the all around "King"

There is no king. It all depends on where you are.

The Creedmoore is going to be my next purchase

And this is the ultimate point of the thread. You've got your jujus on for the Creedmoore and are trying to justify it. Enjoy.

---

You see, I could care less about 500 yard performance. I'm never going to take a shot at that range. Lots of people feel that way. 500 yard performance does not make the "king" of deer calibers. It is an outlier. I've never had the need or nor the desire to take a shot over 300 yards at a deer. Ever. And I spent most of my hunting life in Texas.

[Kachok]

No I am not set on the Creedmoore, I legitimately asked a question and thus far I have received no better answer then the 6.5, My issue with the Creedmoore is that few rifles chamber it in contrast to the 308 of 7mm-08 which are also good choices. If only Browning chambered it in the X-Bolt or Winchester in their 70, or Kimber in their Montana.....Ah I guess I will have to wait. In the mean time I have a 6.5x55 and 7mm-08 which have served me very well.

[Pathfinder45]

Cartridges like 270 Winchester, 6mm Remington and 300 H&H typically feed more smoothly from the magazine than those that are more like an Ackley or WSM in their profile.

[alancac98]

I like the .308 or 30-06 myself for king of cartridges.

[reynolds357]

Pathfinder, you can make almost anything feed well from a magazine if you have it designed correctly. About the only thing I have never been able to work out to my satisfaction is the WSSM's.

[Deja vu]

Are there rounds that will stop a deer on bad shot? Sure but they are not made for deer. The smallest of which is the 50 BMG.

For me I like the 357 magnum (from a carbine) and the 45-70. But I dont take many long shots.

[Kachok]

Yeah a sharp shoulder CAN feed very well, my 6.5x55 has a sharp 25 degree shoulder and is the smoothest feeding bolt action I have ever used, while my Savage 270 WSM is nowhere near as smooth as a Tikka action it cycles very well.

[Mike / Tx]

I fully admit to not reading through all 7 pages of this, but I did read through several and thought I would throw in on it.

In your initial post, based upon the table you presented I would choose the 25-06. The reasons are several. In my case I have a ton of once fired '06 cases in which to neck down. This makes things cheaper to keep on hand, and it is VERY easy to distinguish between the two should they all end up mixed in the bottom of my ammo box. Next it has a very mild recoil for a caliber which can use close to 60gr of powder. Even with top loads my daughter at 9yrs old, and my oldest grandson when he was that age had no issues putting it to task on thier bucks. For me it has reached out to over 400yds and put everything I took aim on, down with no issues. Accuracy has been phenonimal with the one we have. I have used a 115gr Partition as the general load for 20 something years. It leaves the barrel at around 3150fps and the drop at 400yds is around 18-19", and fits the Leupold duplex retical almost perfectly at that range. Simply put the top of the bottom post where you want the bullet to go and let her fly.

As to the efficiency, well I think that is somewhat of a broad comparrison. Not that by using 30grs of powder to get the same basic performance as using 50 isn't efficient, but just like some who prefer a 38 over the 357, it simply is to me a personal thing. I'm not, at least at this time in my life, overly concerned with the added powder to get where I want to be. In the recoil aspect, yes I CAN see where less is better with everything else being similar. There again though, to some recoil is an issue where to others it isn't.

Ok so I am a bit biased towards the 25, in fact I built the Ackley version for myself and passed the standard one over to my daughter. Still though I am running the 120gr bullets in it, and again my oldest grandson just recently used it to drop his first 10pt buck at just over 300yds. It is using a LOT of Ramshot Magnum along with a 28" barrel to make a VERY flat shooting rifle. Yes it WAS built to reach out and touch things a fer piece out, but I have also laid waste to a bunch of hogs up as close as 30' with it. (I thought they were pretty dumb to stick around under the fallen tree, but took full advantage of it.)

Before I built it I looked over a LOT of things, one of which was the 6.5x55 and the .26-08 before it was the .260. I thought of going with a short action, and something which would work with a 120-140gr bullet, and around 40grs of powder. The bullet selection is huge in this caliber, but after listing everything out I simply couldn't justify it due to already having a M96 in 6.5 and the .308. So, I looked at the .257's and decided that the Roy was simply too expensive for my taste anyway, and that I wanted just a touch more than the standard version 25-06. I had the breech cut longer to allow it to be set back should i toast the throat, or possibly want to rechamber to the standard version.

All this said though, I fully believe as mentioned that choosing a "best" among the long list of main, and sub calibers derived from them is about as easy as picking THE best vehicle that would suit everyones needs. While gas milage might be wonderful in a sub compact, pulling my tractor down the road with a Hyundai is a whole differnt thing. My 1 ton might not get the best milage, but it is the tool I need for the job. After all, choosing the proper tool for the intended job IS what we are talking about in the long run, right?

[TXAZ]

Kachok

So most of us experienced hunters know by now that there is no "magic" caliber that smites everything on the planet like the wrath of God, ballistic wounding is a mechanism that is very measurable.

Actually, a .50 BMG does exactly what your ""magic" caliber" smiting insinuates. The damage to any tissue (or 8" thick granite even more so) is impressive. Blood trail? More like an extended high volume pool with the prize very close by. High risk for what's behind the target, but an extremity hit is often as good as a head or vital organ or COM shot.
And 500 yards for many high power shooters is very doable. Ammo is relatively affordable (particularly compared to Lapua and other 'precision' rounds.

If "king" is the number of hunters using a particular round, you're back to a 30-30 or 30.06 as far as North America goes. If it's "smite everything" you left out the BMG. If you're trying to justify a Creedmore, just go buy it.

[Kachok]

Reasons NOT to buy a 50 BMG.
1. Nothing screams I anger management issues like using an anti armor round on a freaking deer.
2. 50lbs hunting rifle.
3. 4 foot long hunting rifle.
4. 200+gr of powder per shot.
5. Cannot fit the brass into my reloading press.
6. 750gr bullets won't even slow down on deer sized game, likely to hit someones house next state over.
7. Cannot take a shot over the hood in open pasture, darn muzzle blast off one of those spade bits will crack a windshield, don't ask me how I know.
Guess am not cool enough to hunt with a 50, or maybe the memory of having to tote around a M2 Browning on foot has left me scared for life, don't want a 50 cal and sure don't need one, I leave that to the hardcore preppers, anti government militias and mall ninjas.
Oh and BTW I have seen a deer run off after a solid hit by a 50 BMG, they are no magic pill either, made it about 200 yards before bedding down hardly the dramatic result you expect form 13,000 fpe.