Let's talk .40 Smith

hogheaven · July 7, 2013, 04:21 PM

I have some speer 165 gr GDHP's and I have some Unique I want to use...I was thinking 5.5gr unique? anyone have any input on this?

Marco Califo · July 7, 2013, 04:36 PM

Buy a Reloading Manual or look up your loads online:
http://www.alliantpowder.com/ Preferably do both.

Do NOT rely on what anyone says here without sanity checking it against either of the above.

Idaho Spud · July 7, 2013, 04:48 PM

MC is right, but I have some input. 5.5 gr. of Unique with that bullet is well under a START load (as per Alliant) and your gun may or may not function with it. But only your gun knows for sure.

Gster · July 7, 2013, 05:20 PM

You had better visit the link that Marco provided. 5.5 is way too low of a charge.

57K · July 7, 2013, 09:36 PM

IMO, the Gold Dot is such an excellent defense bullet that loading it over Unique would be kinda wasting a good bullet. If you have a SPEER manual, look at the data for Silhouette (or 3N37 which is a bit pricey). Silhouette will give you better performance with much lower flash which it's treated for. Having all the load manuals you can afford is a good thing!

serf 'rett · July 8, 2013, 04:06 PM

57K - My Speer Manual doesn't show a load with either Silhouette or 3N37. Do you have a Speer Manual which shows loads with the two powders you recommended?

The online Vihtavuori manual shows a 3N37 starting load of 7.3 grains and maximum load of 7.5 grains. In my opinion, this tight of range is not for beginners.

Hogheaven - Where did you get your 5.5 grain load? What resource? Reloading is not an activity where one guesses.

My Speer manual does show a load with the 165 grain GDHP and Unique. Starting load is 6.2 grains, max load 7.2 grains. CCI 500 primers, 1.120" COAL, Speer case, S&W 4" test barrel.

Always start low and work up.

57K · July 8, 2013, 11:08 PM

No I said SPEER when I should have said SIERRA. I was thinking about the Gold Dot being made by SPEER. SIERRA lists data for Silhouette and 3N37.

There is also data for Silhouette here: http://www.ramshot.com/load-data/

serf 'rett · July 9, 2013, 09:23 AM

57K - Thanks!

I've considered trying 3N37 in my 40S&W. N320 produced decent groups, but got really good groups with N340. I’ve wondered if 3N37 would do even better.

Silhouette is another powder on the list of “powders to be tried” since I’ve seen it a few times locally.

chiefr · July 9, 2013, 09:28 AM

IMHO, Unique is very good with the 40 SW.

serf 'rett · July 9, 2013, 10:18 AM

On June 19, I loaded three test series with Berry's 165 Hollow Back Flat Point Thick Plated bullets. The powders to be tested are W-231, Unique and Power Pistol.

It was a tad to warm after our IDPA match last Saturday, so I didn't stay and test the series. Perhap this coming weekend we'll see what Unique will do with that particular Berry's bullet.

**Unclenick** · July 9, 2013, 10:42 AM

CAUTION: The following post includes loading data beyond or not covered by currently published maximums for this cartridge. USE AT YOUR OWN RISK. Neither the writer, The Firing Line, nor the staff of TFL assume any liability for any damage or injury resulting from use of this information.

Unique is very close to N340 in QuickLOAD. The data there is almost interchangeable in this cartridge with your bullet. I would knock 15% off a top N340 load and use that with Unique as a starting point for load workup.

Ruger45LC · July 9, 2013, 02:26 PM

As for Unique, and specifically 5.5gr of it for a 165gr Gold Dot, that seems pretty light as even 5.5gr with a 180gr (something I've loaded) is fairly light.

Alliant shows 6.8gr as max for a 180gr, and I know that 6.5gr of Unique will send a 180gr JHP @ 1.120" over 1050 fps from a 4" G23, and right at 1200 fps from a 6" bbl.

So Alliant shows 7.2gr as max for the 165gr Gold Dot, 5.5gr is nearly 2.0gr below that. I'd start around 6.5gr and work up from there.

57K · July 9, 2013, 09:17 PM

serf 'rett, 3N37 is excellent but pricey. Silhouette covers the same performance level unless you're looking at older V-V data. I don't know why the current data at Lapua is so narrow for 3N37 with the 165 TC FMJ, but the 7.5 gr. Max listed is a bit on the light side in comparison to SIERRA's data. I'm thinking V-V was after target grade accuracy. Lyman's data that is held at or below 24,000 CUP shows their max. charge of 3N37 with a SPEER 165 gr. TMJ at 7.3 grs., the same as the V-V Start Charge with pressure only at 22,000 CUP.

And speaking of Target grade accuracy, there is another powder you might want to add to your list for consideration and that's True Blue. It's given me the best accuracy to date and I pursued it after reading several good reloading articles on .40 S&W accuracy where it graded out best overall with Silhoutte and WSF being about an equal second. True Blue, according to QuickLoad, gives the lowest burn temps as well. I don't use Unique or any other flake pistol propellant. Flash can be greatly reduced with denser sphericals where Silhouette is chemically treated for it. I use it in high velocity 9mm loads as well as some .45 ACP loads where it excels.

QuickLoad, unfortunately, predicts an over-pressure condition for 2 of Hodgdon's Max. Loads with 180 gr. JHPs. Universal and it's even worse for LongShot. HS-6 did fine. I don't have the program, but because I recommend sphericals just slower than Unique on Hodgdon's burn rate chart that starts with N330 and goes down to AA#7, especially to newer reloaders, a reloading moderator on another forum ran the numbers and sent me the data. Longshot is shown to be a tad slower burning than AA#7 but he included it anyway. Missing from QuickLoads analysis was WSF, AutoComp and SR4756 that is flake, but it's also single based and usually has good pressure stability in the .40 or the 9mm.

July 7, 2013, 04:21 PM	#1
hogheaven Member Join Date: July 2, 2013 Posts: 27	Let's talk .40 Smith I have some speer 165 gr GDHP's and I have some Unique I want to use...I was thinking 5.5gr unique? anyone have any input on this?

July 7, 2013, 04:36 PM	#2
Marco Califo Senior Member Join Date: April 4, 2011 Location: LA (Greater Los Angeles Area) Posts: 2,598	Buy a Reloading Manual Buy a Reloading Manual or look up your loads online: http://www.alliantpowder.com/ Preferably do both. Do NOT rely on what anyone says here without sanity checking it against either of the above. __________________ ............

July 7, 2013, 04:48 PM	#3
Idaho Spud Senior Member Join Date: April 7, 2010 Posts: 330	MC is right, but I have some input. 5.5 gr. of Unique with that bullet is well under a START load (as per Alliant) and your gun may or may not function with it. But only your gun knows for sure. __________________ "I should have picked alcohol, drugs, or beating my wife..." Pete Rose

July 7, 2013, 05:20 PM	#4
Gster Senior Member Join Date: September 2, 2012 Location: N.central Pa. Posts: 302	You had better visit the link that Marco provided. 5.5 is way too low of a charge. __________________ Gun control means: Being able to hit what you are shooting at.

July 8, 2013, 04:06 PM	#6
serf 'rett Senior Member Join Date: June 25, 2009 Location: Stuttgart, AR Posts: 1,569	57K - My Speer Manual doesn't show a load with either Silhouette or 3N37. Do you have a Speer Manual which shows loads with the two powders you recommended? The online Vihtavuori manual shows a 3N37 starting load of 7.3 grains and maximum load of 7.5 grains. In my opinion, this tight of range is not for beginners. Hogheaven - Where did you get your 5.5 grain load? What resource? Reloading is not an activity where one guesses. My Speer manual does show a load with the 165 grain GDHP and Unique. Starting load is 6.2 grains, max load 7.2 grains. CCI 500 primers, 1.120" COAL, Speer case, S&W 4" test barrel. Always start low and work up. __________________ A lack of planning on your part does not necessarily constitute an emergency on my part.

July 7, 2013, 09:36 PM	#5
57K Junior member Join Date: March 2, 2013 Location: Heart of Texas Posts: 788	IMO, the Gold Dot is such an excellent defense bullet that loading it over Unique would be kinda wasting a good bullet. If you have a SPEER manual, look at the data for Silhouette (or 3N37 which is a bit pricey). Silhouette will give you better performance with much lower flash which it's treated for. Having all the load manuals you can afford is a good thing!

July 8, 2013, 11:08 PM	#7
57K Junior member Join Date: March 2, 2013 Location: Heart of Texas Posts: 788	No I said SPEER when I should have said SIERRA. I was thinking about the Gold Dot being made by SPEER. SIERRA lists data for Silhouette and 3N37. There is also data for Silhouette here: http://www.ramshot.com/load-data/

July 9, 2013, 09:23 AM	#8
serf 'rett Senior Member Join Date: June 25, 2009 Location: Stuttgart, AR Posts: 1,569	57K - Thanks! I've considered trying 3N37 in my 40S&W. N320 produced decent groups, but got really good groups with N340. I’ve wondered if 3N37 would do even better. Silhouette is another powder on the list of “powders to be tried” since I’ve seen it a few times locally. __________________ A lack of planning on your part does not necessarily constitute an emergency on my part.

July 9, 2013, 09:28 AM	#9
chiefr Senior Member Join Date: January 27, 2010 Location: AR Posts: 1,401	IMHO, Unique is very good with the 40 SW.

July 9, 2013, 10:18 AM	#10
serf 'rett Senior Member Join Date: June 25, 2009 Location: Stuttgart, AR Posts: 1,569	On June 19, I loaded three test series with Berry's 165 Hollow Back Flat Point Thick Plated bullets. The powders to be tested are W-231, Unique and Power Pistol. It was a tad to warm after our IDPA match last Saturday, so I didn't stay and test the series. Perhap this coming weekend we'll see what Unique will do with that particular Berry's bullet. __________________ A lack of planning on your part does not necessarily constitute an emergency on my part.

July 9, 2013, 10:42 AM	#11
Unclenick Staff Join Date: March 4, 2005 Location: Ohio Posts: 21,061	CAUTION: The following post includes loading data beyond or not covered by currently published maximums for this cartridge. USE AT YOUR OWN RISK. Neither the writer, The Firing Line, nor the staff of TFL assume any liability for any damage or injury resulting from use of this information. Unique is very close to N340 in QuickLOAD. The data there is almost interchangeable in this cartridge with your bullet. I would knock 15% off a top N340 load and use that with Unique as a starting point for load workup. __________________ Gunsite Orange Hat Family Member CMP Certified GSM Master Instructor NRA Certified Rifle Instructor NRA Benefactor Member and Golden Eagle

July 9, 2013, 02:26 PM	#12
Ruger45LC Senior Member Join Date: July 24, 2005 Location: Kentucky Posts: 768	As for Unique, and specifically 5.5gr of it for a 165gr Gold Dot, that seems pretty light as even 5.5gr with a 180gr (something I've loaded) is fairly light. Alliant shows 6.8gr as max for a 180gr, and I know that 6.5gr of Unique will send a 180gr JHP @ 1.120" over 1050 fps from a 4" G23, and right at 1200 fps from a 6" bbl. So Alliant shows 7.2gr as max for the 165gr Gold Dot, 5.5gr is nearly 2.0gr below that. I'd start around 6.5gr and work up from there.

July 9, 2013, 09:17 PM	#13
57K Junior member Join Date: March 2, 2013 Location: Heart of Texas Posts: 788	serf 'rett, 3N37 is excellent but pricey. Silhouette covers the same performance level unless you're looking at older V-V data. I don't know why the current data at Lapua is so narrow for 3N37 with the 165 TC FMJ, but the 7.5 gr. Max listed is a bit on the light side in comparison to SIERRA's data. I'm thinking V-V was after target grade accuracy. Lyman's data that is held at or below 24,000 CUP shows their max. charge of 3N37 with a SPEER 165 gr. TMJ at 7.3 grs., the same as the V-V Start Charge with pressure only at 22,000 CUP. And speaking of Target grade accuracy, there is another powder you might want to add to your list for consideration and that's True Blue. It's given me the best accuracy to date and I pursued it after reading several good reloading articles on .40 S&W accuracy where it graded out best overall with Silhoutte and WSF being about an equal second. True Blue, according to QuickLoad, gives the lowest burn temps as well. I don't use Unique or any other flake pistol propellant. Flash can be greatly reduced with denser sphericals where Silhouette is chemically treated for it. I use it in high velocity 9mm loads as well as some .45 ACP loads where it excels. QuickLoad, unfortunately, predicts an over-pressure condition for 2 of Hodgdon's Max. Loads with 180 gr. JHPs. Universal and it's even worse for LongShot. HS-6 did fine. I don't have the program, but because I recommend sphericals just slower than Unique on Hodgdon's burn rate chart that starts with N330 and goes down to AA#7, especially to newer reloaders, a reloading moderator on another forum ran the numbers and sent me the data. Longshot is shown to be a tad slower burning than AA#7 but he included it anyway. Missing from QuickLoads analysis was WSF, AutoComp and SR4756 that is flake, but it's also single based and usually has good pressure stability in the .40 or the 9mm.