Need equipment advice...

[alphaco]

New to reloading and am killing myself on researching equipment. I have ready the ABCs of reloading cover to cover but still have several questions... I will be reloading mostly clip fed 5.56 & 7.62/308

1. Who makes a good Digital Caliper? Was looking at the RCBS calipers
2. Im going with a Forster CO-Ax. Does this press reload primers or do I need to get a primer too? Recommendation on a good hand primer?
3. I thought that I read if you get Redding dies you did not need to lube the brass?
4. Exactly what is the difference between
a. Seating Die Sets
b. Bench Rest Seater Die
c. Bushing Bump Neck Sizing Die Sets

Thanks for your help!

[Redbullitt]

The frankford arsenal caliper works well. Most of them will be just fine.

I am not sure about that press, but I like to do all my priming with the rcbs hand priming unit. That way I can do it wherever and not be tied to my main loading station.

If you neck size or use carbide dies for pistol etc you do not NEED to lube, but I still like to do it to minimize working the brass. If you get a busing style redding die for neck sizing, they have titanium nitride (i think that is the name) bushings that do not require lube. Again, I suggest some sort of lube even if it is not required. Redding and forster dies are top notch.

the die sets usually include a full length sizing die and a seater. Some sets come with a neck sizer, body sizer, and full length sizer. Combinations may vary.

Bench rest seaters are usually set up to minimize runout and often use micrometer adjustments.

Bushing dies size the neck to the same size that you set up and are very consistent. This is usually the way to go for accuracy in a bolt gun with minimal working of the brass.

Here is what I run on my .260 Forster Benchrest seater and full length die, redding competition bushing die (.289 bushing)

[Doodlebugger45]

Don't buy it tonight for sure.

Nothing wrong with the equipment you are thinking about. But maybe not the optimum choice for your needs. Tomorrow there will be tons of people who shoot "clip fed" rifles to advise you on their opinions. I don't shoot the auto loaders so I'm kind of on shaky ground there.

It seems to me that nearly all the digital calipers are actually made by the same Chinese company regardless of whose name is slapped on them. I think the $20 Frankford Arsenal calipers are the same as the $50 model sold by someone else. But they all seem to work really well.

From what I know, the Forster CoAx is a superb and expensive press that is popular with bench rest shooters. They measure their 0.3" groups down to the thousandth and they load their rounds meticulously and slowly. Probably not what semi-auto shooters do with .223 and .308 loads in the "clip" fed rifles. Those type rifles can get great accuracy, but will get just as goo accuracy from a Lee Cassic single stage for $90 as they will with a $230 Forster. Better yet, go for a Lee Classic Turret for $95 and with the proper accessories crank out twice the ammo in an hour and it is just as good. Eventually, I see most of the semi-auto rifle shooters go to a full progressive press like a Dillon 550 or a Hornady LnL Progressive. They are awesome machines for making a whole lot of good ammo. Maybe a bit more expensive than the Forster CoAx, but not a whole lot more but they can crank out the ammo in nothing flat.

For the die sets you mention, I won't say much. They are very specialized and expensive options compared to the standard dies most of us use. I guess they serve a purpose for some people, but most of us can't tell the difference in the final product.

[Ideal Tool]

Hello, alphaco. I too have the Forster press, bought mine in 1990 & LOVE it! Yes, you can prime on this press..don't need shell-holders for this either, as there are adjustable "fingers" that hold case. While I usually prime with a hand-held priming tool, the Forster is set up so that there is no "feel" needed for proper primer seating. when the priming punch is bottomed out against case, a built-in stop in priming punch automaticly seats primers .002" below case head. You might check out Sinclair Internationl..they do have web site but I don't have information with me, they just put out Christmass flier & there are dig. calipers on sale. If you really get deep into hand loading, you probably will want to get a good 0-1" micrometer. These are far more accurate than calipers, I would spring for the Starrett & get the .0001" option. There pricy, but you will only buy these once...Still use mine everyday after 35 years of Toolmaking. Again, Sinclair will have all major dies, including my favorite Redding. You might need a small-base die if your shooting semi-auto..this reduces body smaller than regular dies for improved feeding. Best of luck in this facinating hobby!

[Volucris]

You mean "mag fed"?


My suggestion:
get Bill Chevalier's book The ABCs of Reloading

read that

Best idea: get a progressive press and a single stage and put money into a good scale like the rcbs chargemaster dispenser combo on natchezss

[Incognito]

Originally Posted by Doodlebugger45

I think the $20 Frankford Arsenal calipers are the same as the $50 model sold by someone else.

... and I think the $20 Frankfords are the same as the $10 Harbor Freights either of which work just fine.

[Doodlebugger45]

Volucris,

He says he's read that book. He understands the principles of reloading it would appear. He just wants advice on equipment based on experience I think. He certainly isn't skimping when it comes to $$$. I just think he needs some guidance as to what equipment would fit best with his particular shooting preferences and needs. The idea of having a pretty good single stage and a decent progressive has some merits for a lot of folks who are both learning and yet wanting to shoot a lot. Of course, you can turn out a bunch of ammo on a single stage if you are motivated enough. And you can turn out quality ammo on a progressive while you learn the details if you are patient enough to start.

I do think he is kind of starting on the far end of the spectrum to start with.

[Incognito]

Hey there alphaco, welcome to the forum. I'm by no means an expert, but I've been reloading now for three years, strictly for .223 Rem. (AR-15) and .308 Win. (700 Remington SPS).

I started on a basic Lee Anniversary Kit ($100) with a single stage Challenger Press using solely Lee components, and I'm still using the same set up today. Not because I can't afford something better, but because it works and suits my purposes (although I'm eyeing the Classic Turret). It's putting out awesome ammunition; more accurate than I am.

All I'm saying is you're going to want to keep it simple, particularly since you're just starting out. I'm not saying to go with Lee, but there's definately a lot cheaper options out there including complete kits for you to get your feet wet on which will include almost all the essentials to start rolling your own. Staying with same manufacturer for your components will simplify things too. As you progress, you can get as complicated as you want to go, but for starters I'd suggest keeping it simple (and cheap).

[Shoney]

alphaco

WELCOME TO TFL!!!

The Co-Ax is one of the finest single stages on the market. The priming system on the press is hard to beat for precision positive priming.

The suggestion to get a progressive along with your single stage is premature. Why? Because not only do we not know what you are reloading, we do not know what numbers of rounds you are shooting per week/month/year. Whatever you are shooting, your shooting will increase once you start reloading. That is the only absolute you can say about reloading.

You only need a progressive if you are shooting in the 1000 round or more per month.

Please let us know what cartridges you will be reloading and what numbers you now shoot.

alphaco wrote
1. Who makes a good Digital Caliper? Was looking at the RCBS calipers
2. Im going with a Forster CO-Ax. Does this press reload primers or do I need to get a primer too? Recommendation on a good hand primer?
3. I thought that I read if you get Redding dies you did not need to lube the brass?
4. Exactly what is the difference between
a. Seating Die Sets
b. Bench Rest Seater Die
c. Bushing Bump Neck Sizing Die Sets

1. don’t like digital calipers, batteries always go out when you most need them.

2. The Co-Ax is one of the finest single stages on the market. The priming system on the press is hard to beat for precision positive priming. Just make sure you have the large and small priming mechanisms; and use them with the appropriate size primers.

3. The only dies that require no lube are the carbide straight wall pistol cases.

4a. Seating dies seat the bullets into the cases that have been run through the sizing die.

4b. Bench rest seating die is great if you want to wring that little bt moree of accuracy for target shooting. They are not needed for hunting purposes, but useful.

4c. I’m not sure of your terms, but any sizing die can be used to bump the shoulder. There are neck sizing dies that only size the neck. An explanation on how touse them would take more time than I have right now.

GOOD SHOOTING, and again, WELCOME TO TFL!!!

[oneounceload]

IIRC, shooting a semi requires using small base FL die sets - does it not? (I got rid of my semi's a lonnnnnng time ago

[zippy13]

Greetings alphaco and welcome aboard.

For the reloading newbie, especially since you're loading for semi-autos, I concur with my friend, oneounceload, go with full-length dies. You will GREATLY reduce the number of potential problems.

[wncchester]

"there will be tons of people who shoot "clip fed" rifles "

Few people these days know the difference between a "clip" and a removable magazine, meaning they don't have a clue what a clip is.


"shooting a semi requires using small base FL die sets - does it not?"

FL, yes. S.B.; rarely.


The costly RCBS measuring tools are made in the same Chinese shop the other brands of calipers are. MidwayUSA's is MUCH less expensive.

Conventional seaters do a good job. There isn't a lot of difference in the accuracy potenitial of ammo from "competition" seaters and conventional seaters - and bushing sizers. No noob will see any difference for a looong time.

The Co-Ax is a good press.

[zippy13]

A clip may charge a magazine (fixed or removable), but a magazine can't charge a clip. When I think of clips, it's M1's or stripper clips. You're right, wncchester, detachable mags are often referred to as clips.

[dlb435]

1. There are lots of digital calipers out there. I picked up mine in Cabelas. Unless you get a high quality machinist caliper, they're all about the same. I think most of them are made by the same company in China.
2. Good press, you can seat the primers on the press. Just stick with the basic set up for know.
3. All calibers you want to reload will need case lube on the sizing die. Only straight walled case sized with carbide dies don't need lube.
4a & b. They both seat the bullet. The bench rest set has a fine adjustment for precision shoot. Just get the regular seating die for now.
4c. An other luxury item you don't need to get started.

Try to just get the basics you need to get started. After you have been reloading for a while, you will know what else you might want.

[bbqncigars]

alphaco:
You will not be sorry buying the Co-Ax. I'm still happily using mine over forty years after buying it. I'd recommend a good hand primer to speed things up. I use a Lee Autoprime, but Hornady and RCBS are good too. I would advise you to get some Forster die rings for any non-Forster dies you plan on using in the Co-Ax. You can always email/call tech support of a non-Forster die company(or Forster) to check on their rings' compatibility with the Co-Ax. You don't want too much slop between the die ring and the slot in the press.


Wayne

[alphaco]

First I want to thank all for your sharing of knowledge and experience.

wncchester you got me...Although I keep my ammo on stripper clips most of my
rifles are magazine charged. I think my Garand is the only one I might have
ground to stand on by saying it is clip fed...

I have to tell you that I was really drawn to a progressive auto loader
setup especially for my ARs...Despite my desire to turn out ammo as fast as
LC :-) I took the advice that I should learn on a single stage press.
Besides my wife would freak out if she saw a progressive with auto bullet
feeder in action...She thinks I have too much ammo as it is...

Hope I don't offend anyone but I found Bill Chevalier's book The ABCs of
Reloading somewhat vague in several respects. I believe this is due to the
broad spectrum of topics he is covering but I would love another read that
focuses just on rifle reloading. Any suggestions?


Doodlebugger45 you are on the mark:-) I shoot more in the warmer months
(maybe 500 rds a month) and very little in the winter except when hunting
and usually that is only a couple of shots and only if I'm lucky during the
season. No joy this Nov...

I think I'm hearing an RCBS universal hand primer is a good idea. Am
thinking I will go with the Starrett, Sinclair or Mitutoyo calipers. Thank
you Ideal Tool for the advice on micrometer. The more I ready the more this
makes sense. I'm thinking an Ammo Concentricity Gauge might be a good idea as well?

With all of your help I think the die sets are starting to make more sense
to me. I think a full length size die is right way to go since I'm not
concerned about fitting my brass to a particular chamber. Also think I
don't need the benchrest set. I have uncovered one more potential issue...I
shoot 223 and 5.56 and have 2K mixed brass. I also shoot 7.62x51 and 308.
Have lots of military 7.62 brass. Do I need specific dies for 223 & 5.56 &
7.62 & 308? I'm thinking yes?

[DAVID NANCARROW]

It really depends upon the chamber of your rifles, whether they are cut for 223 as opposed to 5.56 or 308 vs 7.62x51. There are slight differences between the 2, best to see what chambers theyre actually cut for

[alphaco]

They are cut for both i.e. I can fire 5.56 and 223 out of the same rifle - likes 5.56 more and can fire both 7.62 and 308 out of another rifle. Worried about trying to load 308 with military 7.62 brass...

[oneounceload]

"shooting a semi requires using small base FL die sets - does it not?"

FL, yes. S.B.; rarely.

Thanks for the clarification!......I gave up on reloading .223 15 years ago, so I figured I might be off a bit

[Incognito]

Here's an article on this subject: http://www.guncentral.net/Articles/SAAMIvsNATO.html

You can also do a search for 5.56 vs. .223, and 7.62 vs. .308 as there are numerous articles on this topic. Bottom line is that it is safe to fire .223 Remington in a 5.56 X 45 chamber, but not vice versa. Also, it is safe to fire 7.62 X 51 in a .308 Winchester chamber, but not vice versa.

It is my understanding that the external dimensions between commercial cartridges and its NATO counterparts are negligible, so no specialized dies are required when manufacturing these loads.

[semi_problomatic]

Military brass has military primer crimp, which means you gotta get a crimp remover to use on the primer pocket to reprime the rounds. Semi-auto rounds NEED to be FL sized or you'll have feeding/chambering/extracting issues, the neck sizing works the brass less (longer case life)and makes the round slightly more accurate because it helps ensure the round is closer to being in the exact same place in the chamber with every shot; but eventually you'll still have to FL resize or the brass will become hard to chamber/extract/eject due to too much expansion. I got the rcbs rock chucker supreme because it seemed like the best compromise between cost and performance. I love it. It came with a lot of the basics that people with other set-ups were buying seperate. Don't forget a primer hole uniforming tool and primer pocket cleaner.