Saiga 12 gauge.... what do you think?

mellow_c · September 14, 2008, 09:04 PM

I'm thinking about a Saiga 12 gauge for my next firearm. Would obviously be great for home defence, should also be fun for hand thrown clays, maybe even trap shooting if I get good with it, and tactical target practice. And with each shot being much cheaper than a .223, yet incredibly effective at close range, and alot of fun!, I'm pretty sure it will be worth my money. Not to mention the supposed AK reliability, and available 10-20 round detatchable magazines.

Does anyone happen to own one of these guns? or maybe have any experience with them.... I'd like to hear more about them before I buy one

P.S. they even take 3" shells. Yup, I'm just about sold~!

Webleymkv · September 14, 2008, 10:24 PM

The only issue I've heard of is that it's not a good idea to leave one loaded for a long period of time. The reason is that the magazine spring pushing the top shell against the bottom of the bolt is likely to, over time, deform the shell enough to cause a jam (this isn't a problem with their rifles as brass doesn't deform like plastic). Of course leaving the mag out of the gun or leaving the bolt open (if yours has a BHO) would most likely alleviate this problem.

B. Lahey · September 14, 2008, 11:42 PM

Fun shotguns.

I've left 10-round AGP mags loaded for up to 6 months without any problems. The mag springs are really not that strong, loading is a breeze.

It may not be a great idea to shoot 3" 1.25oz slugs or 3" 15-pellet 00 loads from the AGP mags. I've broken 3 like that. They were super fast and friendly about sending me new mag bodies, but nobody likes broken magazines. The new ones say "Generation 2" on them, so it may not even be a problem anymore, but the mags are very long and 3" loads can recoil like crazy. That's a lot of force on that little plastic tab on the front. I shoot heavy 3" loads in 5-round mags now.

Get the basic one with no rooski-installed chokes if you want to use 10-round mags without swapping out other parts. The basic model only has 13 "parts" (only some count), so you can use a big US mag (3 parts) and you have the 10 or fewer foreign parts for 922r compliance. The other models have more parts, so you have to replace components to stay legal.

It's worth the weird legal adventure, though. I think it probably has the greatest fun to dollar ratio of anything I have ever bought.

mellow_c · September 15, 2008, 01:15 PM

Sounds great guys

I'm looking at getting a 16 inch version. The only way I know to get one is to buy over the net and have it shipped to my FFL. Would the Choke be in the discription, or should I make sure to ask before I buy?

So are the 5 round mags metal? Where all the 10-20 rounders are plastic? Also does it require mods for the 20 round mags to fit? I'm guessing I'll load them with Bird shot for the majority of all my shooting. And if I'm going to load it with slugs or buck shot, I'd probably stick to 2 3/4 shells. It's just nice to know it will handel 3" shells if I really want though.

By the sound of it, your saying It will come to me US compliant. And Since the mags have 3 parts, they will count as 3 US parts out of the 13 total parts of the gun? So it seams the only way I would make it illegal would be to ADD new parts to it that are NOT made in the US? Just checking

I could always get the folding pistol grip stock for it... but I think I'd like the traditional rifle stock. Besides that folding pistol grip stock costs over $150

Thanx again for the tips

!

mellow_c · September 15, 2008, 01:55 PM

Ok after doing some research... I see that I dont want the folding stock, because it looks like it makes the gun alot longer. Also, I dont know what I was thinking about the 16" barrel, I think they are only available in 19" or 22". And as far as 20 round mags go, I only see 20 round drums available. But I swear I saw someone showing off a 20 round Mag on Youtube once.

I think I have alot to learn about this shotgun before I actually go buy one. Then I'll have the problem of trying to find one for under $600

They are a neat idea, but it's sounding like alot of work. I'm also hearing that some of the 10 round mags can have feeding issues.

Oh well, I still want one.... Maybe if I find a good deal on one, I'll jump on it, and then figure things out from there

I'd still love to hear from anyone with experience with one

Thanx!

EAJ702 · September 15, 2008, 03:14 PM

Have you visited the saiga-12.com website?

john1911 · September 15, 2008, 05:42 PM

Quote:

And as far as 20 round mags go, I only see 20 round drums available. But I swear I saw someone showing off a 20 round Mag on Youtube once.

That would be one long magazine. There are rumors of a 8-12 round double stack mags coming out.

Quote:

I'm also hearing that some of the 10 round mags can have feeding issues.

The 2nd generation AGP mags have supposedly taken care of the problems.

Quote:

Then I'll have the problem of trying to find one for under $600

That's what they're selling for now. I don't think we'll see $350 Saigas any time in the future.

I really like my Saiga. It's been reliable with every thing I've fed it. I tried the AGP 10 round mags and didn't really care for them, heavy and long. I like the factory 5 round mags and these: http://www.keepshooting.com/firearma...saiga12mag.htm. Good mags at a good price.

These aren't finely made show pieces, rather somewhat roughly machined workhorses. If you want pretty, you would do better to look elsewhere.

Quote:

Have you visited the saiga-12.com website?

Check this site out, lots of info.

mellow_c · September 16, 2008, 03:55 PM

Yeah, I found the Saiga 12.com web site, thats why I came back with all those other questions

Thanx for the answers

I'll remember to stick with Gen 2 mags or just the 5 rounders. I'm starting to get very excited about this, now all I need to do is figgure out my money sittuation.

(Do I buy a nice $5,000 truck that will last a long time? Or pick up a good deal on a $750 truck that will get me through the winter and leave money left over to buy more guns and ammo

?)

FSJeeper · September 16, 2008, 04:40 PM

I bought 2 of these when they were still reasonable. They are the most fun guns I own. Extremely reliable, unbelieveable firepower with the 10 round mags, and pretty much bullet proof. I love the factory stock and the shotgun gets on target fast. I do not know why someone would take such a fine handling shotgun stock and go tactical with it. Get to know that stock well before you try and changed it. I do not think you can improve it. I have never had one single issue with either shotgun or the 10, 10 round mags I bought for them.

Rustynuts · September 16, 2008, 07:57 PM

Folding stocks don't make them longer unless you don't do the conversion and move the trigger group forward. Here's mine with an Ace internal block which the folder bolts to. No extra length except for the folding mechanism. To solve that, just get the shorter Ace stock. Mine is their midlength, so it could be an inch shorter even if you like.

If you REALLY want to talk short, check this out. Oops, wrong end!

danweasel · September 17, 2008, 12:29 AM

Hey put a video of that thing on the net. That is the ultimate HD weapon right there!

Rustynuts · September 18, 2008, 05:13 PM

Sadly, not my shorty! I ripped that photo from a Tromix post on Saiga-12!

But ask and you shall receive! Looks like it had an FTF though. This is 8" version, I think the photo is 6".

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zlHyO8BM3MU

Another 8"
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Y5EYD_6af5k

cosmolinelover · September 18, 2008, 05:40 PM

I bought one a while back when they were going for around $450. They disappeared for some time but recently became available again for around $600. In retrospect, when CDNN was trying to get rid of them for $239 I probably should've jumped on it--but at the time high cap mags were just not available (unless you wanted to pay hundreds for a 8 rounder shipped in from europe/russia).

Even though its a steep price, I went ahead and ordered another recently from gilbertsguns.com for $600. They still have them in stock as of today---I'd jump on it if I were you.

Even if you're not sure what kind of 'tacticool' look you wish to do with it, you'll be better off just getting the gun now and then you can worry about adding 100 lbs of light weight crap onto it later

But man, are they fun guns!

Rusty, did you do that conversion yourself? It looks great! I still am working up the courage to take a drill press to mine... now that I have an extra on the way it might be a little easier to stomach.

Logs · September 18, 2008, 06:56 PM

Actually I found one for $529 yesterday at Mike's Guns in Frankfort, KY about 5 miles from Gilberts. Gilberts guns had a great selection, but you can usually beat his prices at Mikes or at Buds Gun Shop in Paris.

PT-92 · September 18, 2008, 08:08 PM

I have one and love it. I would stack it up against my 1187 Police model any day.

-Cheers

EAJ702 · September 19, 2008, 01:36 PM

You might give whittakerguns.com a try. They have two on sale:

Saiga 12ga 24in barrel w/1 mag While they last: $534.99

Saiga 12ga 19in barrel w/1 mag While they last: $499.99

mellow_c · September 22, 2008, 12:31 AM

Well, I'm convinced. I'll have to get one. I'd like to get that one mentioned on the post above, if I can save enough money in time that is. (The 19 inch) I just spent another $550 on 1,000 rounds of 7.62x51 NATO. I think I'm stocked up pretty well on all that ammo now. So It's time to save for another firearm! YAY

And like all of you said. I'll just get it first, and then think about whether or not I want to DO something to it. Although it's sounding like the best thing I can do for it, is nothing. Just buy it, and Get a bunch of those good Generation 2 10 round mags. And then have fun! Sounds good to me.

Rustynuts · September 26, 2008, 06:30 PM

Quote:

So are the 5 round mags metal? Where all the 10-20 rounders are plastic? Also does it require mods for the 20 round mags to fit? I'm guessing I'll load them with Bird shot for the majority of all my shooting. And if I'm going to load it with slugs or buck shot, I'd probably stick to 2 3/4 shells. It's just nice to know it will handel 3" shells if I really want though.

By the sound of it, your saying It will come to me US compliant. And Since the mags have 3 parts, they will count as 3 US parts out of the 13 total parts of the gun? So it seams the only way I would make it illegal would be to ADD new parts to it that are NOT made in the US? Just checking

The stock mags are plastic. The 20-rd drums still have to be shaken out. The first offering from Wraithmaker were a flop and required mods I believe. The current offering from MD Arms is just shipping, but seems to be doing well. You may have to get in line to order one though!

http://www.mdarms.com/Scripts/default.asp

The parts count with the US mag is still contentious (at least if you have a threaded barrel). Some people say the threads constitute a 14th foreign part since a foreign choke or brake could be added. Change out one more part and you're good to go. If the gun you buy has been converted (i.e. trigger group moved forward, pistol grip added, etc. WITH USA made parts), you will be good to go even with no US choke/brake added. I still don't have one on mine, I just have the Russian thread protector on it. Yes, mine is fully converted with US parts.

September 14, 2008, 09:04 PM	#1
mellow_c Senior Member Join Date: January 7, 2008 Location: Colorado Posts: 1,862	Saiga 12 gauge.... what do you think? I'm thinking about a Saiga 12 gauge for my next firearm. Would obviously be great for home defence, should also be fun for hand thrown clays, maybe even trap shooting if I get good with it, and tactical target practice. And with each shot being much cheaper than a .223, yet incredibly effective at close range, and alot of fun!, I'm pretty sure it will be worth my money. Not to mention the supposed AK reliability, and available 10-20 round detatchable magazines. Does anyone happen to own one of these guns? or maybe have any experience with them.... I'd like to hear more about them before I buy one P.S. they even take 3" shells. Yup, I'm just about sold~!

September 15, 2008, 01:15 PM	#4
mellow_c Senior Member Join Date: January 7, 2008 Location: Colorado Posts: 1,862	Sounds great guys I'm looking at getting a 16 inch version. The only way I know to get one is to buy over the net and have it shipped to my FFL. Would the Choke be in the discription, or should I make sure to ask before I buy? So are the 5 round mags metal? Where all the 10-20 rounders are plastic? Also does it require mods for the 20 round mags to fit? I'm guessing I'll load them with Bird shot for the majority of all my shooting. And if I'm going to load it with slugs or buck shot, I'd probably stick to 2 3/4 shells. It's just nice to know it will handel 3" shells if I really want though. By the sound of it, your saying It will come to me US compliant. And Since the mags have 3 parts, they will count as 3 US parts out of the 13 total parts of the gun? So it seams the only way I would make it illegal would be to ADD new parts to it that are NOT made in the US? Just checking I could always get the folding pistol grip stock for it... but I think I'd like the traditional rifle stock. Besides that folding pistol grip stock costs over $150 Thanx again for the tips!

September 16, 2008, 03:55 PM	#8
mellow_c Senior Member Join Date: January 7, 2008 Location: Colorado Posts: 1,862	Yeah, I found the Saiga 12.com web site, thats why I came back with all those other questions Thanx for the answers I'll remember to stick with Gen 2 mags or just the 5 rounders. I'm starting to get very excited about this, now all I need to do is figgure out my money sittuation. (Do I buy a nice $5,000 truck that will last a long time? Or pick up a good deal on a $750 truck that will get me through the winter and leave money left over to buy more guns and ammo?)

September 17, 2008, 12:29 AM	#11
danweasel Senior Member Join Date: May 26, 2008 Location: Fairbanks, AK Posts: 191	Hey put a video of that thing on the net. That is the ultimate HD weapon right there! __________________ When I came back to Dublin I was courtmartialed in my absence and sentenced to death in my absence, so I said they could shoot me in my absence. - Brendan Behan

September 18, 2008, 06:56 PM	#14
Logs Senior Member Join Date: November 26, 1999 Location: BLUEGRASS STATE KY USA Posts: 1,780	Saiga 12 Actually I found one for $529 yesterday at Mike's Guns in Frankfort, KY about 5 miles from Gilberts. Gilberts guns had a great selection, but you can usually beat his prices at Mikes or at Buds Gun Shop in Paris.

September 14, 2008, 10:24 PM	#2
Webleymkv Senior Member Join Date: July 20, 2005 Location: Indiana Posts: 10,446	The only issue I've heard of is that it's not a good idea to leave one loaded for a long period of time. The reason is that the magazine spring pushing the top shell against the bottom of the bolt is likely to, over time, deform the shell enough to cause a jam (this isn't a problem with their rifles as brass doesn't deform like plastic). Of course leaving the mag out of the gun or leaving the bolt open (if yours has a BHO) would most likely alleviate this problem.

September 14, 2008, 11:42 PM	#3
B. Lahey Senior Member Join Date: March 17, 2008 Location: Indiana Posts: 2,857	Fun shotguns. I've left 10-round AGP mags loaded for up to 6 months without any problems. The mag springs are really not that strong, loading is a breeze. It may not be a great idea to shoot 3" 1.25oz slugs or 3" 15-pellet 00 loads from the AGP mags. I've broken 3 like that. They were super fast and friendly about sending me new mag bodies, but nobody likes broken magazines. The new ones say "Generation 2" on them, so it may not even be a problem anymore, but the mags are very long and 3" loads can recoil like crazy. That's a lot of force on that little plastic tab on the front. I shoot heavy 3" loads in 5-round mags now. Get the basic one with no rooski-installed chokes if you want to use 10-round mags without swapping out other parts. The basic model only has 13 "parts" (only some count), so you can use a big US mag (3 parts) and you have the 10 or fewer foreign parts for 922r compliance. The other models have more parts, so you have to replace components to stay legal. It's worth the weird legal adventure, though. I think it probably has the greatest fun to dollar ratio of anything I have ever bought.

September 15, 2008, 01:55 PM	#5
mellow_c Senior Member Join Date: January 7, 2008 Location: Colorado Posts: 1,862	Ok after doing some research... I see that I dont want the folding stock, because it looks like it makes the gun alot longer. Also, I dont know what I was thinking about the 16" barrel, I think they are only available in 19" or 22". And as far as 20 round mags go, I only see 20 round drums available. But I swear I saw someone showing off a 20 round Mag on Youtube once. I think I have alot to learn about this shotgun before I actually go buy one. Then I'll have the problem of trying to find one for under $600 They are a neat idea, but it's sounding like alot of work. I'm also hearing that some of the 10 round mags can have feeding issues. Oh well, I still want one.... Maybe if I find a good deal on one, I'll jump on it, and then figure things out from there I'd still love to hear from anyone with experience with one Thanx!

September 15, 2008, 03:14 PM	#6
EAJ702 Senior Member Join Date: December 20, 2007 Posts: 448	Have you visited the saiga-12.com website?

September 16, 2008, 04:40 PM	#9
FSJeeper Member Join Date: July 21, 2008 Posts: 96	I bought 2 of these when they were still reasonable. They are the most fun guns I own. Extremely reliable, unbelieveable firepower with the 10 round mags, and pretty much bullet proof. I love the factory stock and the shotgun gets on target fast. I do not know why someone would take such a fine handling shotgun stock and go tactical with it. Get to know that stock well before you try and changed it. I do not think you can improve it. I have never had one single issue with either shotgun or the 10, 10 round mags I bought for them.

September 16, 2008, 07:57 PM	#10
Rustynuts Member Join Date: May 27, 2007 Posts: 94	Folding stocks don't make them longer unless you don't do the conversion and move the trigger group forward. Here's mine with an Ace internal block which the folder bolts to. No extra length except for the folding mechanism. To solve that, just get the shorter Ace stock. Mine is their midlength, so it could be an inch shorter even if you like. If you REALLY want to talk short, check this out. Oops, wrong end!

September 18, 2008, 05:13 PM	#12
Rustynuts Member Join Date: May 27, 2007 Posts: 94	Sadly, not my shorty! I ripped that photo from a Tromix post on Saiga-12! But ask and you shall receive! Looks like it had an FTF though. This is 8" version, I think the photo is 6". http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zlHyO8BM3MU Another 8" http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Y5EYD_6af5k

September 18, 2008, 05:40 PM	#13
cosmolinelover Senior Member Join Date: June 10, 2005 Location: Albuquerque, NM Posts: 254	I bought one a while back when they were going for around $450. They disappeared for some time but recently became available again for around $600. In retrospect, when CDNN was trying to get rid of them for $239 I probably should've jumped on it--but at the time high cap mags were just not available (unless you wanted to pay hundreds for a 8 rounder shipped in from europe/russia). Even though its a steep price, I went ahead and ordered another recently from gilbertsguns.com for $600. They still have them in stock as of today---I'd jump on it if I were you. Even if you're not sure what kind of 'tacticool' look you wish to do with it, you'll be better off just getting the gun now and then you can worry about adding 100 lbs of light weight crap onto it later But man, are they fun guns! Rusty, did you do that conversion yourself? It looks great! I still am working up the courage to take a drill press to mine... now that I have an extra on the way it might be a little easier to stomach.

September 18, 2008, 08:08 PM	#15
PT-92 Senior Member Join Date: March 20, 2007 Location: "Undisclosed Bunker" Posts: 1,464	I have one and love it. I would stack it up against my 1187 Police model any day. -Cheers

September 19, 2008, 01:36 PM	#16
EAJ702 Senior Member Join Date: December 20, 2007 Posts: 448	You might give whittakerguns.com a try. They have two on sale: Saiga 12ga 24in barrel w/1 mag While they last: $534.99 Saiga 12ga 19in barrel w/1 mag While they last: $499.99

September 22, 2008, 12:31 AM	#17
mellow_c Senior Member Join Date: January 7, 2008 Location: Colorado Posts: 1,862	Well, I'm convinced. I'll have to get one. I'd like to get that one mentioned on the post above, if I can save enough money in time that is. (The 19 inch) I just spent another $550 on 1,000 rounds of 7.62x51 NATO. I think I'm stocked up pretty well on all that ammo now. So It's time to save for another firearm! YAY And like all of you said. I'll just get it first, and then think about whether or not I want to DO something to it. Although it's sounding like the best thing I can do for it, is nothing. Just buy it, and Get a bunch of those good Generation 2 10 round mags. And then have fun! Sounds good to me.