Wet tumbling... major differences in tumblers ???

[Magnum Wheel Man]

I was just reading the thread "brass flakes" & didn't want to sidetrack the OP's thread...

I've been wet tumbling now for over a year, done many 1,000's of cases, ranging from belted magnums, to the lil 25 autos I've been working on lately, I always tumble only one size of case at a time, & I've been very happy with the results...

I'm using an old RCBS Sidewinder ( really old, was my FIL's so may be 25 years old now )... it's about worn out, & I'm getting ready to replace it... ( BTW... I'm sure the Sidewinder was designed for dry media, as wet tumbling of cartridge brass was pretty much un-heard of 25 years ago )... my FIL used it with cob or walnut media... I was not impressed with the results, & switched over to wet tumbling

my question stems from the huge amount of time variance owners are saying they are tumbling... some as short as an hour & a half, & reporting clean shiny brass, some saying 4 to 4.5 hours... with my old worn out RCBS, I get best results with about 12 hours...I only have 2.5 lbs of pins, but the RCBS tumbler I think has a smaller tumbling chamber than some of the others, coupled with the fact, that because of the worn out condition, if mine gets too heavy, it won't spin... but I don't get the level of clean & shine, or my primer pockets spotless much before 12 hours...

so I'm assuming the speed ( rpm ) of the tumbler, combined with the adjatation level of the drum, & or possibly the size, effect the time... I understand there could be differences in user expectations of what is clean & shiny... but if I could cut my time down, when I buy a new tumbler that would be great... I'll probably buy the Thumler that they recommend for tumbling brass, but now we have the new Frankford Arsenal, & Thumler makes several models

was just curious what the guys are using that are getting such short tumbling times

[jmorris]

Running at 40 rpm I have never needed to run one more than an hour and a half.

This is the largest one I have built.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GlZOYjmAnO0


This is the first one I built using nesting 12.7 gallon buckets.

[Vance]

http://www.biggdawgtumblers.net/
I bought a medium size drum from this guy and made my own base with a 1/4 hp furnace blower motor I got off ebay for cheap.

[Unclenick]

Commercially, the Thumbler B with high speed motor is most common. There are some larger units out there. I think, in the case of the large drums jmorris is running, the height from which the pins and brass fall onto one another and the surface speed of the drum have a lot to do with the speed of the cleaning. At any given number of RPM, the wider the drum, the faster the surface speed.

[Magnum Wheel Man]

anyone here tried the new Extreme Rebel tumbler ???

http://www.stainlesstumblingmedia.co...-rebel-17.html

to me, it looks like a Thumler that someone redesigned some of the weaker points out of

[Oldgoat03]

I inherited an old Thumlers Tumbler and it was just too small for my purposes. After doing some research I bought the FA tumbler. It comes with 5 lbs of stainless media and some sample FA solution. I now use a few drops of Dawn and a 9mm case of lemmi shine powder and the results are amazing even when cleaning filthy black powder brass. The capacity of the heavy plastic drum is large (no rust), it is rubber lined (sound) and the RPM's are realtively high so it doesn't have to run long. I also ordered the FA magnet which helps with seperating the pins. I ordered mine from Cabelas for about $199 and it included free shipping. (order over $149)

For the money you really can't go wrong with the FA.

OG03

[Nick_C_S]

I too have a Frankford Arsenal. It uses 5lbs of pins (included). I got it from MidwayUSA and have had it for a few months now, and couldn't be happier.

Aside from the fact that it's as big as I'll ever need, and it works great; what I really like is its built-in count-down timer.

I run it for 1 hour, 45 minutes; and everything comes out nice n shiny.

http://www.midwayusa.com/product/713...y-case-tumbler

[jepp2]

anyone here tried the new Extreme Rebel tumbler ???

That is the unit I use. Very happy with it.

my question stems from the huge amount of time variance owners are saying they are tumbling... some as short as an hour & a half, & reporting clean shiny brass, some saying 4 to 4.5 hours.

I would guess some of the variation comes from:

- what one person calls shiny, another thinks isn't shiny enough and tumbles longer

- tumbling longer than required (meaning you aren't gaining anything with the extra time). I am probably in this category. The directions suggested to tumble for 4 hours. I just haven't opened it up after 2 hours to check. It might look just fine. But I can tell you that after 4 hours the brass is immaculate inside an out.

One dislike I have of SS pin tumbling is how hard on the case mouth the tumbling it. Unless you want your bullets scratched, you have to chamfer the inside of the case mouth after wet pin tumbling. I'm always surprised this doesn't come up more in the discussions.

[Vance]

It's too bad thumbler's went with that goofy "O" ring belt instead of a real belt. That is the weak link I see now.

One dislike I have of SS pin tumbling is how hard on the case mouth the tumbling it. Unless you want your bullets scratched, you have to chamfer the inside of the case mouth after wet pin tumbling. I'm always surprised this doesn't come up more in the discussions.

That's the main reason for tumbling in the shortest time possible.

[Gdawgs]

I'd go with the Extreme Tumbler you listed or the FA. I bought a Thumler last year, and I was kind of disappointed in it for as much as they cost. All the things I thought were cheap and cheesy about the Thumler(cheap bushings instead of bearings, diameter of the shafts is too small, cantilevered motor mount, wing nuts instead of knobs, wimpy base) have been addressed by the Extreme Tumbler. I wish they were selling that instead of the Thumler when I bought mine.

As far as time, I've found that if the cases aren't too dirty, about 2 hrs is all they need. If they are nasty, 2hours then change water and give them another 1.5 - 2 hours(or all night if you forget you have it running )

[Shootest]

anyone here tried the new Extreme Rebel tumbler ???

I use the Extreme Rebel, and need shades after 2 hours of tumbling.
I think its more about your formula of water to soap to lemshine, than brand of tumbler.

[chiefr]

jmorris posted

Running at 40 rpm I have never needed to run one more than an hour and a half.

This is the largest one I have built.

Well done JM.
Most large scale reloader I know have built their own units. Using scrap rollers, wheels, hardware, and a motor. One was similar to yours and used a 20 gallon metal drum but used a belt to rotate drum. Other than the motor, from what I could tell was little invested.

I once saw a Utube video where some guy used a portable one-yard concrete mixer.

[Magnum Wheel Man]

I think its more about your formula of water to soap to lemshine, than brand of tumbler.

while it would have to be somewhat true, I don't think that is the whole story...

I use dawn dish soap, & pharmaceutical grade granular citric acid ( it's what actually does the work in the Lemishine ) & after 4 hours my primer pockets are not fully clean, the insides of the cases don't look "new" ( again, I'm using the RCBS Sidewinder, which was not designed for wet tumbling ) also along those same lines, I've never had rough case mouths even with more than 12 hours tumble time, so if I had to guess, the current line of wet tumblers are spinning faster, & or have longer ( less ) flats in the chamber, so they are more aggressive... & thus quicker at the actual mechanical cleaning of the cases

because of what I'm using, requires 12 hours at least for new looking brass, I had been discounting the Frankford Arsenal unit, as the timer only does like 4 hours or so... I didn't see the point... the Thumler unit doesn't have a timer, so if you aren't plugging it into a timer it'll run for as long as you want ( which might not be needed ??? )

another thing I've noticed, is that if the cases sit for several hours, ( for example, if I had the timer set for 4 hours, & went to bed, & got back to the tumbler 8 hours later, with the brass sitting in dirty solution for 4 hours ) the grunge re-deposits on the cases, & they need fresh solution, & run for a little while to freshen them back up

I guess what I'm learning here, is not to recommend the Sidewinder for wet tumbling... it'll work, but takes 2 - 3 times longer to get the results

... reading the customer reviews on both the Thumler, & the Frankford Arsenal units on Midway, tells me they may work great, but have several cheap elements ( like screws that pull out & end up getting replaced with bolts ) belt issues etc.

I may try the Extreme Rebel, as outwardly to me, it looks like they modeled it after the Thumler, & corrected some of the weakest traits of that tumbler ???

[Jim Watson]

I use a Thumbler's Tumbler that a friend had used to polish rocks for several years; weeks on end of run time. I eventually had to replace the rollers and belt; the motor and drum are fine.

I only wet tumble black powder brass. Three hours usually gets it clean but not shiny. I have had some polished batches, probably from hitting the sweet spot when loading the tumbler by eye instead of measured amounts of water and brass.

[Magnum Wheel Man]

JIM... I've noticed any loads that had black powder in my batches, even if it was only a couple cases, just want to get dull yellow color, they lack deep gold color & shine of regular batches... I had one batch come out like that, & I changed solution & ran them a full cycle again, & they looked normal... I wonder if there is enough ( corrosive salts ) or "base" residue from the black powder, that it neutralizes the citric or Lemishine ???

[lamarw]

This may not be the least expensive approach, but in my opinion it is the best approach.

I use a good quality ultrasonic machine. I used to tumble my brass in either walnut or corn cob media in a tumbler. It would take about two hours per load. I now use the ultrasonic (L&R Make of Ultrasonic) with some Hornady "One Shot" concentrate mixed with distilled water as the cleaner. The concentrate last it seems forever. You can use one mixing over and over again. Then you also have a lot of mixings left in your bottle of "One Shot". The expensive part is the ultrasonic machine which I already had for my antique clock hobby.

I de-prime my brass first and run it through the ultrasonic in a stainless steel mesh basket to keep from wearing the interior of your ultrasonic machine for about ten to fifteen minutes. You then rinse under a faucet of running water while still in the basket. I then blow the brass dry with a blow drier.

It cleans the outside of the brass, the interior of the brass plus it performs a thorough cleaning of the primer pocket.

Does any tumbler with media or steel pins get the same results? There also in no dry medial or steel pins to separate from the brass or dig out of the brass.

There is also no noise, just a low hum.

[Magnum Wheel Man]

I tried the "normal" ultrasonic... bought the Hornady unit... it did not clean my brass in the maximum time on the timer, in fact it did not clean my brass until 4-5 settings at maximum time... at which point the unit gets too hot, & must be allowed to cool ( According to the instructions )

then one day I went down to my loading area & the ultra sonic unit was running... on it's own... the timer was at zero, it was smoking, really, really hot, & ready to burst into flames... I could not shut it off without unplugging it...

I called Hornady, & they wanted me to send it back to them... they sent me a new one, but I honestly don't trust it... I keep it unplugged, & only use it to clean my wife's jewelry...

big commercial units maybe, but wet tumbling gets my brass the nicest of any method I've tried or seen...

... I don't mind picking pins, yes it's a pain, but you should inspect your cases anyway, & I remove pins & inspect my cases at the same time, so there is really no extra work involved, at the level that I reload

[Jim Watson]

JIM... I've noticed any loads that had black powder in my batches, even if it was only a couple cases, just want to get dull yellow color, they lack deep gold color & shine of regular batches... I had one batch come out like that, & I changed solution & ran them a full cycle again, & they looked normal... I wonder if there is enough ( corrosive salts ) or "base" residue from the black powder, that it neutralizes the citric or Lemishine ???

Maybe so.
I don't care enough to run them twice; clean is as good as gold for my taste.

[schmellba99]

I use a Thumbler's with the high speed motor (Model B?). Holds 5 lbs of pins, 1 gallon of water and several hundred cases, caliber dependent.

Run time depends on how dirty my brass is. If it's brass I've already tumbled and picked up from a range session out of my gun, a TBSP of Armor All Wash & Wax and a TSP of Lemishine plus about 2 hours of run time leaves me with brass that looks brand spanking new.

If it's brass that I picked up from the range that has been outside for a while, I usually add a little more Lemishine and bump the run time up to 4 hours.

If it's brass that is beyond tarnished and coated with whatever else, I double the Lemishine and run for 4 hours. After that I usually change out the water and run a 2 hour run time with the formula above.

No issues on getting the brass clean with above. It may be overkill, but I'm not going to spend the time and effort to boil it down to the minute and second of run time required. There are better ways for me to spend my time.

I use a plug in adjustable timer on the tumbler to allow me to set the run time. Usually I set it before I go to bed and either do the wash and rinse before I go to work so that the brass has adequate time to dry, or I do the wash and rinse when I get home and give the brass overnight to dry. I towel dry what I can, then lay the brass out on a towel with a regular box fan blowing across it. Right now the heat of the air in the garage is enough to dry the brass out fairly quickly.

[Yokoman]

I use the tumbler from Harbor Freight. I just turn it on before i got to bed and i wake up and empty the cases. I do notice some brass pieces on the bottom of the containers. I always attributed that to the to the sizing of the case.

I will try going for a shorter time on some range pickup brass and see if there is any brass chips on the bottom.

[chiefr]

Magnum Wheel Man posted
JIM... I've noticed any loads that had black powder in my batches, even if it was only a couple cases, just want to get dull yellow color, they lack deep gold color & shine of regular batches... I had one batch come out like that, & I changed solution & ran them a full cycle again, & they looked normal... I wonder if there is enough ( corrosive salts ) or "base" residue from the black powder, that it neutralizes the citric or Lemishine ???

I concur but have a fix.
Been a BP cart reloader for some time now. I always bring a plastic soda bottle, half filled with water and a tablespoon of DAWN dropped inside (nothing more than H2O and Dawn).
I drop each spent cartridge in the solution and shake randomly. The solution removes most of the residue and when you get home dry and tumble or ultrasound. Will come out bright.

[lamarw]

Your report on the Hornady brand ultrasonic machine does not surprise me. They look cheap.

Mine is not a large machine and holds approximatly 4 quarts of cleaning solution.

It works for me. I bought it used many years ago.

[chiefr]

^^^

After 40 years of tumbling with ground walnuts, I bought an ultrasound at Harbor Freight. It is exactly the same as the Lyman only I paid around $70 for mine.
Now the challenge will be to figure out what to use as a cleaning compound.

[lamarw]

As I stated above, I use the Hornady One Shot which is a concentrate. You mix it with distilled water. I am pleased with its performance on my brass. I have also used the L&R Clock cleaning concentrate developed specifically for brass clock parts. It was no better than the One Shot on brass and is significantly more expensive.

Let us know how well the Harbor Freight ultrasonic works for you. I have heard good and bad reports on the clock forum I frequently visit.

[Gdawgs]

I can't believe no one has posted any pictures of their beautiful shiny brass. We all love to look at it. I guess I'll have to go first.

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