870 Broke Before Shot

Gary H · August 1, 2001, 10:08 AM

Last night at 9:52 P.M. we picked-up Amy's 870 Magnum Express 20 gauge. I set about to clean and lubricate. Upon reassembly, I discovered that the internal metal strip that runs the length of the action was partially blocking the hole in which the front take-down pin must go. This strip is on the side opposite the ejection port and obscures the back third of this hole. How could this happen? The pin was in and was punched out with a punch of the proper size. I guess that I'm stuck sending it to Remington, because I can seem to push the insert back.

Another negative: I can't even cut the stock as much as I need due to the stock bolt. I can't believe it. I'm going broke due to stock bolts and springs.

Another negative: If I would have waited another one and one-half hours to purchase, I could have used the Remington $25 off coupon.

fed168 · August 1, 2001, 11:41 AM

Scattergun produces a shorter stock for the 870, if that helps you.

Gary H · August 1, 2001, 12:05 PM

Fred:

My problem is the stock bolt. It is rather long and I wanted to put a recoil reduction device/adjustable pad which requires the stock to be cut to 10 3/4" and that is below the stock bolt. Additionally, the Gracoil device needs another inch and one-half for the recoil device. I will need to forget the recoil reduction and will be looking for a fully adjustable endplate. Shotguns will not sit comfortably against her chest because of obvious obstructions. An adjustable endplate should make the fit much more to her liking.

I just can't make sense of this hole business. There was a hole. The pin fit. It wasn't hard to remove. The internal strip also serves to hold the shells in the magazine. This must have happened when I cycled the pump and opened the ejection port to install the barrel. I don't get it.

SDC · August 1, 2001, 12:53 PM

Aaah, I see what happened here. The part you're talking about is one of the "shell-stops", which makes sure that only one round at a time is fed onto the lifter from the magazine when the action is cycled. I had the same thing happen to me with an 1100, and I just had to take it to a gunsmith so he could stake it back in place. The most common way for these to pop loose is when you're disassembling or reassembling it, and you don't press the stops out to clear the bolt carrier; the carrier can pry the stops out of their grooves, or slide them back. It's not a BIG problem, but it can be annoying, especially when you don't have a backup gun to hunt or shoot with.

Gary H · August 1, 2001, 01:01 PM

Good to hear that someone else had the problem. I didn't even remove the bolt. Just removed the trigger module and barrel. Also, the internal metal strip was actually moved forward.

Dave McC · August 1, 2001, 01:33 PM

The 870 TB here has one of the shell stops come out when I strip the receiver for cleaning. Mostly these are staked in place and stay there for the life of the arm. But, no big thing if they come out, just put it back in lined up with the pin hole and reinstall the trigger group. A minor PITA, but rectified easily.

How far is that stock bolt threaded? You may be able to shorten it and deepen the bolt hole, it sounds like you only need an inch or so.If you've a steady hand and a Dremel tool with a cutting wheel,you can do this freehand. Just keep the threads unbunged.

I use the Morgan adjustable pad, Gamaliel has them 10% off right now, list is around $30. You may want to try this,and a skosh of weight in the stock recess, to heavy up the weapon a bit.Turn the toe out and cinch it down hard, Morgans can be used with that cast off at toe but they aren't designed for it.So, it takes torque to keep it in place.

Also, you may want to find a friend who reloads 20 ga shells. A 3/4 oz load is surprisingly light in Son's light 12 ga, and it may be a great step towards your Lady's mastering the shotgun.

Gary H · August 1, 2001, 02:28 PM

Dave:

I can't budge the shell stop strip. I put my punch in the remaining hole and tried to push it back and the punch didn't like it.

Does the Morgan just screw in and does it look like it could be easily resized for a shortened stock?

I've got two MEC 9000G's sitting on my bench waiting for next months Reno gun show. I'll be picking-up powder, primers and maybe wads.

As you mention the toe situation is rather critical.

I haven't actually pulled the stock off the action. I'll have to do that and should I feel a bit shy to cut everything down, perhaps a local gunsmith would do it for me. I can't think of any reason why it would not work.

Dave McC · August 1, 2001, 10:46 PM

Gary, since this is a warranted gun maybe you should take it back to the dealer for that shellcatcher. My guess is I could fix it once I saw it, but many people can't.

The Morgan is a two piece system, made of aluminum alloys. The base mounts to the stock just like a plate or pad, and the rest mounts to it with one big screw in the middle of the pad.The base can be ground to fit the stock just like a pad.

As most of us note by the 10th grade, women are built delightfully different from men(G). I can visualize using a Morgan and maybe some stock shimming and neoprene stickons to make that stock fit your lady, and then have Wenig,etc, make it into a wood stock with the right dimensions later.

Be advised the Morgan comes with either a straight pad or a curved one where it hits the shoulder. For the purpose intended here, I'd try the curved one first.

HTH....

Gary H · August 1, 2001, 11:39 PM

Your remarks helped me to feel more confident in using greater force. Problem now fixed.

Finding, or creating a shorter bolt looks possible, but will need to thread the bolt after cutting and accurately cut and drill the stock. I'm not going to do this, but I think that any good gunsmith that does rifle/shotgun work should do just fine.

dick w. holliday · August 2, 2001, 02:32 AM

i've had stock work done by holingsworth in KY i think and i once asked about those internal stock recoil devices--he tells me that the Mercury jobs are basically just Bull[color=#FF0000]█[/color][color=#FF0000]█[/color][color=#FF0000]█[/color][color=#FF0000]█[/color][color=#FF0000]█[/color] and you can accomplish the same thing by filling the cavity with lead shot.....i think i'd forget about the recoil device and fill the hole with lead shot shot and then your stock screw problem goes away..............As far as the shell stop goes i cannot see how it moved during regular assembly- and if it moved without any undue force i think you should be able to slide it back in place by inserting a long drift pin punch through both sides of the receiver and putting your hands on both sides of the receiver and pulling it back in place....Good luck....Dick

Al Thompson · August 2, 2001, 05:48 AM

Gary - I had an 870 that for some forgotten reason had no stock bolt. The solution was simple, I got a threaded rod from the hardware store and used that. The thread pitch on the remington stodk bolt is industry standard. IIRC, I took the stock bolt to the store (Lowe's) and found a nut that would fit (1/4 inch I think), used the nut to verify the threaded rod, bought the rod. Got a bunch (25) of washers, screwed the threaded rod into the receiver, verified the depth (hole for the stock bolt has no bottom), put the stock on the receiver, checked the length, trimmed the threaded rod to length, used the washers to add a little weight and raise the nut for my socket wrench, tightened her down.

HTH!

Giz

Dave McC · August 2, 2001, 08:51 AM

Dick, adding shot will work very well, if....

The weight is secured against moving under handling and/or recoil. Otherwise, it's like an impact hammer and will exascerbate the felt recoil.

For the little NEF for Son, I used a trash hull filled with shot, and taped to fit snugly. Total weight added was 4 oz. In a full sized 870, one could add two of these, and wedge them in with old rags. Cheap fix.

I checked the one on my TB, because you got me thinking. No sign of it ever being staked in place, tho the other one is. Remington QC is a crime.....

Gary H · August 2, 2001, 09:04 AM

Dick:

The device that I want to add is a Gracoil. This device is a mechanical one that spreads the recoil over time and is very effective and fully adjustable for fit and recoil resistance. I have a similar device made by Hogue on my 12 ga. defensive gun and it shoots like a pussycat. I must admit that I haven't recently seen pussycats shooting.

I'm stuck with buying another, or cutting the stock bolt. Next I'll lengthen the 1" hole. Last is cutting the stock and mounting the device. All can be done.

BTW: The Gracoil also adds weight to the stock. This will be important when cutting the stock.

August 1, 2001, 10:08 AM	#1
Gary H Senior Member Join Date: April 26, 2000 Location: Texas Posts: 2,267	870 Broke Before Shot Last night at 9:52 P.M. we picked-up Amy's 870 Magnum Express 20 gauge. I set about to clean and lubricate. Upon reassembly, I discovered that the internal metal strip that runs the length of the action was partially blocking the hole in which the front take-down pin must go. This strip is on the side opposite the ejection port and obscures the back third of this hole. How could this happen? The pin was in and was punched out with a punch of the proper size. I guess that I'm stuck sending it to Remington, because I can seem to push the insert back. Another negative: I can't even cut the stock as much as I need due to the stock bolt. I can't believe it. I'm going broke due to stock bolts and springs. Another negative: If I would have waited another one and one-half hours to purchase, I could have used the Remington $25 off coupon.

August 2, 2001, 05:48 AM	#11
Al Thompson Staff Alumnus Join Date: May 2, 1999 Location: South Carolina Posts: 3,611	Gary - I had an 870 that for some forgotten reason had no stock bolt. The solution was simple, I got a threaded rod from the hardware store and used that. The thread pitch on the remington stodk bolt is industry standard. IIRC, I took the stock bolt to the store (Lowe's) and found a nut that would fit (1/4 inch I think), used the nut to verify the threaded rod, bought the rod. Got a bunch (25) of washers, screwed the threaded rod into the receiver, verified the depth (hole for the stock bolt has no bottom), put the stock on the receiver, checked the length, trimmed the threaded rod to length, used the washers to add a little weight and raise the nut for my socket wrench, tightened her down. HTH! Giz __________________ http://www.scfirearms.org/

August 1, 2001, 11:41 AM	#2
fed168 Senior Member Join Date: March 15, 2000 Posts: 1,040	Scattergun produces a shorter stock for the 870, if that helps you.

August 1, 2001, 12:05 PM	#3
Gary H Senior Member Join Date: April 26, 2000 Location: Texas Posts: 2,267	Fred: My problem is the stock bolt. It is rather long and I wanted to put a recoil reduction device/adjustable pad which requires the stock to be cut to 10 3/4" and that is below the stock bolt. Additionally, the Gracoil device needs another inch and one-half for the recoil device. I will need to forget the recoil reduction and will be looking for a fully adjustable endplate. Shotguns will not sit comfortably against her chest because of obvious obstructions. An adjustable endplate should make the fit much more to her liking. I just can't make sense of this hole business. There was a hole. The pin fit. It wasn't hard to remove. The internal strip also serves to hold the shells in the magazine. This must have happened when I cycled the pump and opened the ejection port to install the barrel. I don't get it.

August 1, 2001, 12:53 PM	#4
SDC Senior Member Join Date: January 23, 2001 Location: People's Republic of Kanada Posts: 1,652	Aaah, I see what happened here. The part you're talking about is one of the "shell-stops", which makes sure that only one round at a time is fed onto the lifter from the magazine when the action is cycled. I had the same thing happen to me with an 1100, and I just had to take it to a gunsmith so he could stake it back in place. The most common way for these to pop loose is when you're disassembling or reassembling it, and you don't press the stops out to clear the bolt carrier; the carrier can pry the stops out of their grooves, or slide them back. It's not a BIG problem, but it can be annoying, especially when you don't have a backup gun to hunt or shoot with.

August 1, 2001, 01:01 PM	#5
Gary H Senior Member Join Date: April 26, 2000 Location: Texas Posts: 2,267	Good to hear that someone else had the problem. I didn't even remove the bolt. Just removed the trigger module and barrel. Also, the internal metal strip was actually moved forward.

August 1, 2001, 01:33 PM	#6
Dave McC Staff In Memoriam Join Date: October 13, 1999 Location: Columbia, Md, USA Posts: 8,811	The 870 TB here has one of the shell stops come out when I strip the receiver for cleaning. Mostly these are staked in place and stay there for the life of the arm. But, no big thing if they come out, just put it back in lined up with the pin hole and reinstall the trigger group. A minor PITA, but rectified easily. How far is that stock bolt threaded? You may be able to shorten it and deepen the bolt hole, it sounds like you only need an inch or so.If you've a steady hand and a Dremel tool with a cutting wheel,you can do this freehand. Just keep the threads unbunged. I use the Morgan adjustable pad, Gamaliel has them 10% off right now, list is around $30. You may want to try this,and a skosh of weight in the stock recess, to heavy up the weapon a bit.Turn the toe out and cinch it down hard, Morgans can be used with that cast off at toe but they aren't designed for it.So, it takes torque to keep it in place. Also, you may want to find a friend who reloads 20 ga shells. A 3/4 oz load is surprisingly light in Son's light 12 ga, and it may be a great step towards your Lady's mastering the shotgun.

August 1, 2001, 02:28 PM	#7
Gary H Senior Member Join Date: April 26, 2000 Location: Texas Posts: 2,267	Dave: I can't budge the shell stop strip. I put my punch in the remaining hole and tried to push it back and the punch didn't like it. Does the Morgan just screw in and does it look like it could be easily resized for a shortened stock? I've got two MEC 9000G's sitting on my bench waiting for next months Reno gun show. I'll be picking-up powder, primers and maybe wads. As you mention the toe situation is rather critical. I haven't actually pulled the stock off the action. I'll have to do that and should I feel a bit shy to cut everything down, perhaps a local gunsmith would do it for me. I can't think of any reason why it would not work.

August 1, 2001, 10:46 PM	#8
Dave McC Staff In Memoriam Join Date: October 13, 1999 Location: Columbia, Md, USA Posts: 8,811	Gary, since this is a warranted gun maybe you should take it back to the dealer for that shellcatcher. My guess is I could fix it once I saw it, but many people can't. The Morgan is a two piece system, made of aluminum alloys. The base mounts to the stock just like a plate or pad, and the rest mounts to it with one big screw in the middle of the pad.The base can be ground to fit the stock just like a pad. As most of us note by the 10th grade, women are built delightfully different from men(G). I can visualize using a Morgan and maybe some stock shimming and neoprene stickons to make that stock fit your lady, and then have Wenig,etc, make it into a wood stock with the right dimensions later. Be advised the Morgan comes with either a straight pad or a curved one where it hits the shoulder. For the purpose intended here, I'd try the curved one first. HTH....

August 1, 2001, 11:39 PM	#9
Gary H Senior Member Join Date: April 26, 2000 Location: Texas Posts: 2,267	Your remarks helped me to feel more confident in using greater force. Problem now fixed. Finding, or creating a shorter bolt looks possible, but will need to thread the bolt after cutting and accurately cut and drill the stock. I'm not going to do this, but I think that any good gunsmith that does rifle/shotgun work should do just fine.

August 2, 2001, 02:32 AM	#10
dick w. holliday Senior Member Join Date: January 13, 2001 Location: NC Posts: 589	i've had stock work done by holingsworth in KY i think and i once asked about those internal stock recoil devices--he tells me that the Mercury jobs are basically just Bull[color=#FF0000]█[/color][color=#FF0000]█[/color][color=#FF0000]█[/color][color=#FF0000]█[/color][color=#FF0000]█[/color] and you can accomplish the same thing by filling the cavity with lead shot.....i think i'd forget about the recoil device and fill the hole with lead shot shot and then your stock screw problem goes away..............As far as the shell stop goes i cannot see how it moved during regular assembly- and if it moved without any undue force i think you should be able to slide it back in place by inserting a long drift pin punch through both sides of the receiver and putting your hands on both sides of the receiver and pulling it back in place....Good luck....Dick

August 2, 2001, 08:51 AM	#12
Dave McC Staff In Memoriam Join Date: October 13, 1999 Location: Columbia, Md, USA Posts: 8,811	Dick, adding shot will work very well, if.... The weight is secured against moving under handling and/or recoil. Otherwise, it's like an impact hammer and will exascerbate the felt recoil. For the little NEF for Son, I used a trash hull filled with shot, and taped to fit snugly. Total weight added was 4 oz. In a full sized 870, one could add two of these, and wedge them in with old rags. Cheap fix. I checked the one on my TB, because you got me thinking. No sign of it ever being staked in place, tho the other one is. Remington QC is a crime.....

August 2, 2001, 09:04 AM	#13
Gary H Senior Member Join Date: April 26, 2000 Location: Texas Posts: 2,267	Dick: The device that I want to add is a Gracoil. This device is a mechanical one that spreads the recoil over time and is very effective and fully adjustable for fit and recoil resistance. I have a similar device made by Hogue on my 12 ga. defensive gun and it shoots like a pussycat. I must admit that I haven't recently seen pussycats shooting. I'm stuck with buying another, or cutting the stock bolt. Next I'll lengthen the 1" hole. Last is cutting the stock and mounting the device. All can be done. BTW: The Gracoil also adds weight to the stock. This will be important when cutting the stock.