Hornady Load data for W231 and HP38

TheGriz · October 18, 2015, 07:30 PM

Hello all...great forum! I've been lurking for some time, and have gained a lot of valuable info over the years. Thank you! Now I have a question for the brain trust here.

But first let me say that I certainly understand that W231 and HP38 are now the exact powder over the recent years. However, when I look at Hornady Handbook 9th Edition, they list separate load data for the two powders. Just one example is on page 768 for the 380 auto, and the differences between W231 and HP38 are not insignificant. I can only surmise that Hodgdon and Winchester "commonized" these powders after the print date of the manual, which has a copyright of 2012.

So my bottom line question is regarding W231 and HP38 PRODUCED CURRENTLY. Would one use the W231 load data or the HP38 load data in the Hornady Handbook 9th edition.

Thanks,
Mike

mikejonestkd · October 18, 2015, 08:08 PM

HP-38 and Win 231 are the exact same powder - my brother has canisters of both with the same lot numbers on them.

Use the manufacturer's website for the most accurate and current info.

TheGriz · October 18, 2015, 08:39 PM

"Use the manufacturer's website for the most accurate and current info."

I agree that the manufacturer's website is certainly a go to reference. However, Hodgdon website doesn't cover the spectrum of Hornady bullets, for example 9mm. Hodgdon essentially covers a cross section of many bullet manufacturers.

Asked another way, was W231 made to be match HP38 or vice versa. Or, when looking at the Hornady 9th edition, would the W231 line or the HP38 line be the better data for current production of both powders?

Nick_C_S · October 18, 2015, 09:38 PM

I think they've always been the exact same powder. But there are others here that know more about that stuff than me. I do have two separate personal experiences where I've seen both with the same lot numbers.

Quote:

Would one use the W231 load data or the HP38 load data in the Hornady Handbook 9th edition.

I have Hornady 9th and verified your pg 768 findings. These "contradictions" come up from time to time. Different testing events, different results. I've chronographed rounds from the exact same load session that delivered different average velocities on different days (roughly same air temp, same time of day, same gun, same range, etc.). It happens. It's best to just accept it as such.

If I were in your situation, I'd consider the lower of the two minimums to be the minimum; and the lower of the two maximums to be the maximum. That would be where I would start. I would learn more as I proceed with my workup. At some point, my own personal data supercedes published data (always does). Which is not to say that I ignore published data and throw caution to the wind. I'm just saying that my personal experience is my most valuable guide for doing load work ups and creating a "set" recipe. Besides, the best loading for my selected purpose for a given work up is almost always below published max.

TheGriz · October 18, 2015, 09:50 PM

Nick...sound advice regarding the lower min and lower max. And what you talk about regarding test conditions make perfect sense. I was hoping in addition that someone here in the brain trust may have come across definitive guidance from Hodgdon/Winchester, Hornady, or other source regarding the two identical powders.

BTW...I did check the errata sheet for Hornady 9th edition. No mention regarding this subject.

rclark · October 19, 2015, 08:42 PM

Do a google search (or duckduckgo, or ...) on HP38 and W231 same powder. The subject has come up 'plenty' . Bottom line conclusion ... treat as the same powder .... which they are.

TheGriz · October 19, 2015, 09:15 PM

Rclark...understand that both are identical...got it as stated in my original post. Please read the original post for my question.

T. O'Heir · October 20, 2015, 02:53 PM

"...spectrum of Hornady bullets..." Hornady only makes 6 weights in 9mm. Two of which are 124 and 125 grains. And Hodgdon covers 'em all.
You do not need bullet specific data.
"...Use the manufacturer's website..." The powder manufacturer's web site or manual.
"... the W231 load data or the HP38 load data..." Should be identical. Differences in manuals is from the differences in condition on the day of the test.

rclark · October 20, 2015, 07:46 PM

Ok, reread your post ... My advice, get a few manuals and compare. There are even on-line resources to look at. Usually you'll come up with a 'good' starting place between them all when in doubt ... and then start working up a load. It happens!

Nick_C_S · October 20, 2015, 09:28 PM

Quote:

It happens!

It does.

And I don't trip.

And by "trip," I mean "overthink." When I run into stuff like this, I pick a point and proceed. I've been doing this so long, it hardly even registers with me.

October 18, 2015, 07:30 PM	#1
TheGriz Junior Member Join Date: February 12, 2013 Posts: 5	Hornady Load data for W231 and HP38 Hello all...great forum! I've been lurking for some time, and have gained a lot of valuable info over the years. Thank you! Now I have a question for the brain trust here. But first let me say that I certainly understand that W231 and HP38 are now the exact powder over the recent years. However, when I look at Hornady Handbook 9th Edition, they list separate load data for the two powders. Just one example is on page 768 for the 380 auto, and the differences between W231 and HP38 are not insignificant. I can only surmise that Hodgdon and Winchester "commonized" these powders after the print date of the manual, which has a copyright of 2012. So my bottom line question is regarding W231 and HP38 PRODUCED CURRENTLY. Would one use the W231 load data or the HP38 load data in the Hornady Handbook 9th edition. Thanks, Mike Last edited by TheGriz; October 18, 2015 at 07:36 PM.

October 18, 2015, 08:08 PM	#2
mikejonestkd Senior Member Join Date: January 3, 2006 Location: Brockport, NY Posts: 3,717	HP-38 and Win 231 are the exact same powder - my brother has canisters of both with the same lot numbers on them. Use the manufacturer's website for the most accurate and current info. __________________ You are the bows from which your children as living arrows are sent forth.

October 18, 2015, 09:50 PM	#5
TheGriz Junior Member Join Date: February 12, 2013 Posts: 5	Nick...sound advice regarding the lower min and lower max. And what you talk about regarding test conditions make perfect sense. I was hoping in addition that someone here in the brain trust may have come across definitive guidance from Hodgdon/Winchester, Hornady, or other source regarding the two identical powders. BTW...I did check the errata sheet for Hornady 9th edition. No mention regarding this subject. Last edited by TheGriz; October 18, 2015 at 09:58 PM.

October 19, 2015, 08:42 PM	#6
rclark Senior Member Join Date: February 12, 2009 Location: Butte, MT Posts: 2,622	Do a google search (or duckduckgo, or ...) on HP38 and W231 same powder. The subject has come up 'plenty' . Bottom line conclusion ... treat as the same powder .... which they are. __________________ A clinger and deplorable, MAGA, and life NRA member. When guns are outlawed, only outlaws will have guns. Single Action .45 Colt (Sometimes colloquially referred to by its alias as the .45 'Long' Colt or .45LC). Don't leave home without it. That said, the .44Spec is right up their too... but the .45 Colt is still the king.

October 20, 2015, 02:53 PM	#8
T. O'Heir Senior Member Join Date: February 13, 2002 Location: Canada Posts: 12,453	"...spectrum of Hornady bullets..." Hornady only makes 6 weights in 9mm. Two of which are 124 and 125 grains. And Hodgdon covers 'em all. You do not need bullet specific data. "...Use the manufacturer's website..." The powder manufacturer's web site or manual. "... the W231 load data or the HP38 load data..." Should be identical. Differences in manuals is from the differences in condition on the day of the test. __________________ Spelling and grammar count!

October 18, 2015, 08:39 PM	#3
TheGriz Junior Member Join Date: February 12, 2013 Posts: 5	"Use the manufacturer's website for the most accurate and current info." I agree that the manufacturer's website is certainly a go to reference. However, Hodgdon website doesn't cover the spectrum of Hornady bullets, for example 9mm. Hodgdon essentially covers a cross section of many bullet manufacturers. Asked another way, was W231 made to be match HP38 or vice versa. Or, when looking at the Hornady 9th edition, would the W231 line or the HP38 line be the better data for current production of both powders?

October 19, 2015, 09:15 PM	#7
TheGriz Junior Member Join Date: February 12, 2013 Posts: 5	Rclark...understand that both are identical...got it as stated in my original post. Please read the original post for my question.

October 20, 2015, 07:46 PM	#9
rclark Senior Member Join Date: February 12, 2009 Location: Butte, MT Posts: 2,622	Ok, reread your post ... My advice, get a few manuals and compare. There are even on-line resources to look at. Usually you'll come up with a 'good' starting place between them all when in doubt ... and then start working up a load. It happens! __________________ A clinger and deplorable, MAGA, and life NRA member. When guns are outlawed, only outlaws will have guns. Single Action .45 Colt (Sometimes colloquially referred to by its alias as the .45 'Long' Colt or .45LC). Don't leave home without it. That said, the .44Spec is right up their too... but the .45 Colt is still the king.