For the Colt SAA guys

[SRE]

Hey guys I just wanted to get some feedback from the members on this forum regarding your opinions on the Colt Single Action Army's. I'm in the market for an investment gun, but one I still can take out on nice days to my range and shoot.

Generation necessarily does not matter, it's all about finding the right one.

Which generation do you guys prefer and why? Some say the 2nd genies are the best?

How about barrel length?

Which ones are more rare?

I've never owned one, never even shot a true Colt SAA however I do have plenty experience with other singe actions as I own a few Rugers. I've been fortunate to cross some arms off my "want" list and the Colt SAA is next man up.

Thanks in advance.

[Armybrat]

You'll get a LOT of opinions, but one thing is for sure, New production Colt SAAs are very scarce to find at MSRP. Most sellers are asking several hundred $$$ over. And it seems a lot of new owners are just putting them away NIB as investments. Dunno how that's going to work out for them.

I was just happy to trade my brother out of one of his SAA .357s 7 months ago. He had bought two new ones from a local Gibson's discount store that was going out of business in 1980. He put them in his safe unfired (by him) - only wiping them down once a year.

Mine was made in 1979, so it must've just sat on their shelf for a year before bro bought it. The 3rd Generation Colts had very hit or miss quality control from about that time until the 1990s, or so they say. Mine seems to be a good one. The quality of their recent production in the past 15 years or so is as good as Colt ever did in the past according to the collectors & owners on the Colt Forum.

[Model12Win]

The cowboy action shooters shoot Rugers for the most part.

Since you're interested in these old guns, I'll assume you are interested in CAS. The Rugers are simpler and more rugged and much safer over the old Colts. They are very good guns for the money.

[Driftwood Johnson]

Howdy

The man said he wanted a Colt, not a Ruger.

I currently have four Colt Single Action Army revolvers.

Let's get one thing straight from the beginning. The collector's term is First Generation, or 1st Gen, or 2nd Gen, or 3rd Gen. Nobody calls them 'genies'.

Now that we have that out of the way, here are my two 2nd Gen Colts. Both chambered for 45 Colt. The top one is a late 2nd Gen, it shipped January of 1973 (I lettered it when I bought it about ten years ago). It actually came with two cylinders, both 45 Colt, except one cylinder had 'long flutes' and the Black Powder bevel. Interestingly enough, it originally shipped with a 12" barrel, but it was returned to the factory in December of that year and had the current 7 1/2" barrel installed.

The one with the 4 3/4" barrel shipped in 1968. I bought it a couple of years before the 7 1/2" one. It was a 'parts gun' not all the parts are original to it. And some previous owner had completely removed all the blue and most of the colors of the case hardening. I was going to have it refinished, but it's appearance grew on me so I never did. This 1968 gun is actually a little bit better made than the 1973 gun. I can detect a couple of very minor differences. And despite its shorter barrel, I shoot more accurately with it.

If I recall correctly, I think I paid $1200 for the 7 1/2" gun. The 4 3/4" gun was a bargain since it had been messed with, but I honestly can't remember what I paid for it. Maybe around $800.

Don't forget, these prices are at least ten years old.





I also have two 1st Gen Colts. This 38-40 Bisley model was made in 1909. It is an old gun and shows plenty of wear, the only blue left on it is in a few protected places like the cylinder flutes, the sides of the grip frame, and the barrel near the ejector rod housing. But despite its age it times perfectly. There is some pitting in the barrel, but the cylinder chambers look like it just left the factory yesterday. I bought it at auction in 2014 for $1700, which I considered to be quite a bargain.





I have one other 1st Gen, another Bisley. This one left the factory in 1908. However it has a new cylinder and barrel, chambered for 44 Special of all things. The grips are new too.




Some folks like to just look at their Colts, but I shoot mine. The two 2nd Gens are my CAS Main Match pistols and I shoot them at almost every match, with cartridges loaded with Black Powder. I don't shoot the Bisleys as much, but I do shoot them, also with cartridges loaded with Black Powder.

Finding affordable Colts can be trying. You have to keep your eyes open and keep looking. I saw a nicer 2nd Gen 45 with 7 1/2" barrel go for $1500 at a gun show recently. I also attend auctions. Not online auctions, real brick and mortar auctions. Sometimes you hit it just right, like I did with that 38-40 Bisley. It was towards the end of the day, and there was not much interest in a Bisley, so I got it on my first bid.

I have no problem buying used Colts instead of new, but I am pretty familiar with them and know what to look for. I don't even look at the new ones.

I never turn my nose up at guns with honest wear on them, that brings the price down. Same with refinished guns, if it is a good job. 2nd Gens can easily bring $2000 these days, and 1st Gens bring more, but if you hunt you can find some pretty good deals.

Click on the photos in these links to enlarge the photos.

Here is a refinished 1st Gen that went for $2415:

http://www.amoskeagauction.com/110/81.php



Here is a refinished 1904 Bisley that went for under $1500:

http://www.amoskeagauction.com/110/286.php



Here is an interesting 1906 Bisley rechambered and rebarrelled for 357 Magnum that went for less than $1400:

http://www.amoskeagauction.com/110/333.php

http://www.amoskeagauction.com/110/334.php

http://www.amoskeagauction.com/110/339.php

http://www.amoskeagauction.com/110/367.php

[jackmoser65]

Some say the 2nd genies are the best?

Nobody calls them 'genies'.

Right, we're not 12yr old girls needing cutesy nicknames for our play pretties.

3rd's have always been a very poor investment. If you want to make a profit, I'd suggest CD's, a high yield savings account, money market or playing the stock market. If you're set on buying a Colt SAA that will appreciate, it ought to be a 1st or 2nd generation. Buying these guns at a fair enough price to avoid getting screwed is an art in and of itself and I'd not suggest it for the uninitiated. Just recently we've seen guns that at first appeared to be high condition US-marked gun only to find out it was a fake.

My advice, if you want to get into old Colt's, do it whole hog and do LOTS of research before buying (more than pedestrian internet forums). If you want an investment, buy something else. If you just want a Colt SAA to own and enjoy as nature intended (shooting!), buy a later 3rd generation.

[Armybrat]

Driftwood & Jack said it well.

I've seen some good shooters listed for reasonable prices in the classified section on the Colt Forum:

http://www.coltforum.com/forums/forum.php

[DPris]

Don't acquire a current Peacemaker as any kind of investment.
Most particularly if you plan to also shoot it.

It'll hold it's value to a degree over time, but you'll drop a few hundred immediately by shooting it, and you'll have to hang onto it for a couple decades to make any kind of notable profit off it.

If you want an investment in terms of an increase on money invested, try something else, as Jack said.
Denis

[SRE]

Hey thanks guys, points well taken. I have deleted "Genies" from my vocab when referring to the Colt SAA

Keep the feedback coming. I am learning a lot. And it's greatly appreciated.

[sandbag]

I have a .38 Special Gen 2 made in 1959.5.5" barrel.
A pleasure to shoot.
Gen 2 had no QC problems.
Just my 2 cents,but 357 Magnum in an SAA seems unnatural.

[Cousin Pat]

the 7.5" bbl is for me the most classic look, provides more velocity and has longer sighting plane. For me it feels front heavy, and I shoot the shorter-barrel guns a little better. The 4.75 barrel is much easier for holster work as in cowboy-action shooting. Te 5.5 is nice compromise but some say it reminds them of the toy guns they played with as kids!

[Armybrat]

Just my 2 cents, but 357 Magnum in an SAA seems unnatural

The same could be said of a 9mm 1911.

To a purist, but not to me. .357/38 Special is my favorite caliber. But I do like to keep a gun stock-looking.

[Driftwood Johnson]

Just my 2 cents,but 357 Magnum in an SAA seems unnatural.

Unnatural? How old are you? Believe it or not, Colt first chambered the Single Action Army for 357 Magnum in 1935, the same year Smith & Wesson brought out the cartridge. I'll bet the S.A.A. has been chambered for 357 Mag longer than you have been on the planet. Of course there were less than 550 1st Gen Colts chambered for the cartridge. Now 38 Special was rare with the 1st Gen Colts, only 25 made, starting in 1930.

With 2nd Gens, the standard chamberings were 45 Colt, 44 Special, 357 Mag, and 38 Special. Current production (3rd Gen) seems to be limited to 45 Colt and 357 Mag.

Regarding barrel lengths; the original barrel length was 7 1/2". Most of these pistols were issued to Cavalry units, so Single Action Army revolvers with the 7 1/2" length barrels are often referred to unofficially as the Cavalry Model. During the 1890s most of these revolvers went back to armories or Colt for refurbishing. Most of the barrels were cut down to 5 1/2", and most of these were issued to Artillery units, so the 5 1/2" model is often unofficially referred to as the Artillery Model. There is no generally recognized name for the 4 3/4" barrel length.

As far as actual sales are concerned, there were more 5 1/2" Single Action Army revolvers made than any other barrel length. Dunno which of the other two lengths came in second.

Personally, I prefer the 7 1/2" or the 4 3/4". I think a 5 1/2" Colt looks boring. It's really all about the aesthetics to me, I prefer the elegance of the 7 1/2" barrel, and the brutal appearance of the 4 3/4" barrel. As I said earlier I can usually hit the target better with my 4 3/4" 2nd Gen than with my 7 1/2" 2nd Gen, despite the fact that the longer barrel has a longer sight radius. And the 4 3/4" gun is handier to keep around and wear, if I were ever to wear just one.

Gen 2 had no QC problems.

Actually most 2nd Gens chambered for 45 Colt have oversized chamber throats. My 2nd Gens have chamber throats around .454 and .455, which is a little bit large for .452 bullets. But since I always shoot them with soft lead .452 bullets, it is not a problem.

[jackmoser65]

Personally, I prefer the 7 1/2" or the 4 3/4". I think a 5 1/2" Colt looks boring.

Me too!

[SaxonPig]

I don't buy investment guns. If I did I wouldn't shoot them as that would counterproductive to buying investment guns.

In the past year I bought 3 SAAs to shoot. One was a 3G from 1993 that was new in box. I am now shooting it. I don't buy investment guns. I won't live long enough to see any profit. Takes too long for values to go up significantly.

Two of the 3 were commemorative models. Colt made a lot of them and some aren't that popular so they can often be found at a lower price than a standard model. I bought a 1961 2G in new condition with gold accents (yuck) for $1300. Shoots great. But you are looking for investments.

Sorry, I guess I can't help you.

[sandbag]

You might consider an SAA from the now defunct USFA of Hartford which used Colt machinery.
The quality control is outstanding and the triggers are real "glass rod" crisp.
I have one in 45 Colt and it is easily as good as my Colt 2nd Gen SAA and my 3rd Gen Colt New Frontier.

[spacecoast]

I have a 1900 Bisley and a 1917 SAA, both 4-3/4" barrels in .44-40 and all-original as verified by Colt letter. Both are great fun to shoot.

[jackmoser65]

Two of the 3 were commemorative models. Colt made a lot of them and some aren't that popular so they can often be found at a lower price than a standard model.

Those guns are often a great base for customs too.

You might consider an SAA from the now defunct USFA of Hartford which used Colt machinery.

Actually, the later domestic guns were made with all modern CNC machinery.

[DPris]

USFA never used Colt machinery.
Denis

[T. O'Heir]

"...Nobody calls them 'genies'..." Middle East. Come in bottles, but not as hot blonds in "harem" costumes. Or so I hear. snicker.
Problem with any current Colt SAA is the high purchases price. Take a very long time before its value will increase significantly too. You want one, buy it, but not as an investment.
"...1906 Bisley re-chambered and re-barrelled for 357 Magnum..." Would have lost its collector value. You win.