Slide Jammed Bad on 1911

[tipoc]

It's helpful in threads like these if posters who would like help with a particular issue can provide as much information on the problem encountered as possible. It also helps people learn.

On page one we learned that the slide on a new gun was stuck. On page 2 we learn that the local gun dealer that the op bought the gun from did whack the slide with a mallet. We also learn that the slide stop was released and removed from the gun after the mallet work. The slide was still stuck to the frame though. The op also reports on page 2 that they tried to field strip the gun after that. Which may mean that they removed the bushing but could not go further.

This information, along with a couple of pics would have been helpful up front in the first post. It could of helped the op and helped fellas here learn. But we have it now (minus any pics), so we can pull from it what we can. The op sent the gun back to DW.

Sometimes there is a thin line between wanting help with something and wanting to vent. Nothing wrong with the latter, it has it's place.

Normally, in things like this one, most folks assume a problem in reassembling the gun. We look at that because it's the most likely. Most likely because it's the most common cause of problems like this.

The next most likely is a failure like the barrel link pin coming loose and possibly the link itself somehow tying up the action. It's happened.

The other is a catastrophic failure like the barrel link pin housing itself shearing off, or a barrel locking lug failing and coming off.

Galling it the slide to frame so tightly that a mallet won't release them is not common at all. But we'll see.

tipoc

[Doubletapp]

Sorry for the confusion. On day one when I posted this, I hadnt taken the gun apart yet but had already called DW and the gun store. On day 2 after I had already posted this I took it to the gun store I bought it from and they attempted to disassemble. The recoil spring, barrel bushing, and slide stop came right out so I don't think the jam had anything to do with those. I would have added all of that information in the beginning if I had it at the time. I honestly wasn't trying to vent and was wondering if anyone has had any recent problems like this or with falling in general.

[polyphemus]

and was wondering if anyone has had any recent problems like this or with falling in general

You probably meant to write" galling".

[tipoc]

I wasn't trying to get on your case or ride ya Doubletapp.

The ratio of information to speculation gap gets wider the less info there is.

You can also ask over here:

http://forums.1911forum.com/forumdisplay.php?f=52

or here:

http://www.czforum.com/index.php?board=22.0

tipoc

[Doubletapp]

Thanks, I tried joining the 1911 forum 2 weeks ago but it still won't let me post... It says someone still needs to approve my membership for my posts to show up. It wouldn't even let me send a pm to a moderator asking for approval. And I meant GALLING! Not falling lol

[JohnKSa]

Dan Wesson wanted me to pay the shipping cost to send it back to them. Theres no way in hell thats going to happen on a brand new pistol.

Two things:

So here's how shipping a gun back to the manufacturer often works.

For every genuine warranty problem with a gun, there are a bunch of new gun owners who screwed something up themselves, had trouble with Uncle Bob's "special" reloads, are worried about a non-issue or are in possession of a perfectly good gun but think there's a problem for some unknown reason.

It is common for a manufacturer to require the owner to pay shipping back to them if there's any question about the circumstances for two reasons:

1. It weeds out a lot of the worrywarts who don't really have an issue but just want the factory to look at the gun again if they can get them to do it for free.
2. It prevents the company from having to pay shipping costs on the 20 guns out of 21 that are in perfect working order that are shipped to them for no good reason.

HOWEVER, if the gun does, in fact, have a warranty issue, the company will reimburse the shipping costs upon request. If the problem is not a warranty issue, well then they haven't wasted the money paying to ship a perfectly good gun back to them. That keeps costs down which ultimately is a good thing for everyone.

If it's obvious that it's a warranty issue--e.g. slide cracked in two parts while cycling the empty gun before having ever fired it--then they will pay shipping because there's no question that there's a warranty problem.

...brand new pistol...

... the malfunctioning pistol is brand new...

Playing the devil's advocate here... The gun worked when it was brand new. It only stopped working after 8 rounds (of as yet unidentified ammunition) had been fired through it. In addition, the gun had been disassembled and reassembled by the user prior to the failure.

[Doubletapp]

I spoke with Keith from Dan Wesson today in another Dan Wesson forum. He said galling happens sometimes and they will make it right and fix it. He said unfortunately it can happen to anyone and it has nothing to do with user error. Although the possibility of using fp-10 could have helped. It might not have been a complete solution. Thank you for all your responses in ideas of what it could be. I will be using fp-10 from now on to oil the gun just because that is what is recommended. The turnaround time from DW is fairly quick. I will let you all know how it looks and turns out when I receive the handgun back.

[michael t]

DW has had several with galling . I thought they were supplying a lube for break in with their new guns Suppose to use evey 50 rounds till your at least 500 rounds. .

Mine is a older one I ran it wet till was broken in. . They are built tight no question about that Mine is a tack driver .

[HiBC]

Snyper,on chlorinated brake fluid,I just did a brake job.My local Autozone has multiple brands of both types on the shelf.
The Green cans of Brakleen are non chlorinated.The red cans are not.

And tipoc,in post 28 I was doing my best to help folks learn.

[tipoc]

HiBC,

I thought your post 28 was informative.

I think though that most issues with galling in stainless guns was worked out by the 1980s. AMT and Randall began making 1911s in stainless and both ran into galling issues. Colt began making guns in stainless following their lead and worked out the galling problems.

If DW has had an issue with this it's a throw back. meaning they didn't learn from the others and maybe are making the guns tighter. Also I may not be current with their guns and haven't been following their forums so it could be a more serious issue with them than I'm aware.

But I still think that a gun that galls so several after one magazine that it freezes up and that a tap with a mallet won't free it...pretty rare if that's the case.

tipoc

[mehavey]

Not sure how reloads came onto topic.

`Not sure either DoubleTapp... but why let facts stand in the way of a good furball !!!???

When all the dust has settled here, it does sound like ss-galling may be the culprit.
Please let us know when you find out so we can learn from the problem.

[Skans]

I've been watching this thread - I hope the OP reports what the problem actually was when he finds out.

[WVsig]

I am also interested in finding out what happened. Unfortunately the thread was derailed a bit when the OP stated that pictures would not have helped the thread. This sort of pushed him into the I don't want to learn, help, teach and inform I just want to complain about my defective pistol. Which is fine but that comes with its own thread tangents. People who were looking to help him understand what happened were rightfully a bit out off by his comments. I also think he was premature in declaring what he will demand fro DW before he knows what happened to the gun. Ymmv

If the gun is defective I have no doubt that DW will work to get it fixed and make the OP happy. Keith of DW is apparently aware of the issue and has a good rep for taking care of the customer.

[Jim Watson]

Stay with us and let us know when you get it back.
They will probably not tell you what was wrong or what they really did to fix it.
You may expect a work order to the effect of "Freed slide, refined fit." Huh?

[Doubletapp]

WVSig, I wasn't trying to be an ass when I said pictures wouldn't help. I honestly just thought that was the truth. It literally just looked like a 1911 with the slide 3/4 of the way locked back. I could not see any marks or anything inside the gun. I'm not sure what exactly people were asking for pictures of. As As far as DW goes, keith is aware of the problem. He said galling happens from time to time and he will take care of it. It has been almost 1 week since the gun shipped to them. I will let everyone know if there are any comments about what they did to fix it when I receive the gun back.

[buckhorn_cortez]

I agree with the OP - photos often don't give any additional information and may not have "helped" with this problem.

In fact, if the frame / slide are galled, you could take the gun apart and photographed the rails and probably would not have seen the problem.

Galled areas often do not clearly show up as they are so small - yet, they will stop the gun from cycling. I have had two guns with galled slides / frames and you could not see the problem without a 10x magnifier.

The Internet penchant of "show us pictures so we can see the problem" is more akin to voyeurism as there is more to speculate and discuss with pictures. More speculation doesn't equate to "help."

If the OP feel pictures won't help - that's his choice and judgment as he has the pistol in hand and can see in 3D if anything can be shown with a picture. This has nothing to do with "not wanting to help or learn."

[WVsig]

Originally Posted by Doubletapp

WVSig, I wasn't trying to be an ass when I said pictures wouldn't help. I honestly just thought that was the truth. It literally just looked like a 1911 with the slide 3/4 of the way locked back. I could not see any marks or anything inside the gun. I'm not sure what exactly people were asking for pictures of. As As far as DW goes, keith is aware of the problem. He said galling happens from time to time and he will take care of it. It has been almost 1 week since the gun shipped to them. I will let everyone know if there are any comments about what they did to fix it when I receive the gun back.

I was not saying you were being rude or problematic. I was just illustrating where the thread went a little sideways on you.

Originally Posted by buckhorn_cortez

I agree with the OP - photos often don't give any additional information and may not have "helped" with this problem.

In fact, if the frame / slide are galled, you could take the gun apart and photographed the rails and probably would not have seen the problem.

Galled areas often do not clearly show up as they are so small - yet, they will stop the gun from cycling. I have had two guns with galled slides / frames and you could not see the problem without a 10x magnifier.

The Internet penchant of "show us pictures so we can see the problem" is more akin to voyeurism as there is more to speculate and discuss with pictures. More speculation doesn't equate to "help."

Could not disagree with you more. Pictures could have helped remove a ton of the speculation. In this instance pics IMHO would have lead more people to believe that the gun had suffered galling vs an improperly installed slide stop etc...

As tipoc pointed out the more info we can get the more we can help and learn from what happened. If OPs do not provide as much info as possible then the thread is reduced to voyeurism, this is not because of pics. 99% of the time it is due to a lack of information not too much info.

[BoogieMan]

Galling is a huge problem with clean 300 series SS. I think that slides and frames are made from 400 series SS and it would be less likely to gall. Although it can happen with any material even steel and aluminum. The fact that the slide was lubed makes it less likely that this could happen. I own a SS Kimber and Im very curious to hear what the determination from DW is.

[dgludwig]

"Galling" is a problem that can only be remedied by a different combination of metal types. Personally, if galling due to metal incompatibility is really the culprit here, I don't think there's a solution worth exploring. Dumping gobs of lubricant on moving parts to keep them moving is nothing more than applying a bandage on cancer. My guess is that "galling" is really not the issue here, only because I have to think that any reputable manufacturer would have addressed this possible metal incompatibility anomaly from the outset. Or so I would hope-and expect.

[geetarman]

My guess is that "galling" is really not the issue here, only because I have to think that any reputable manufacturer would have addressed this possible metal incompatibility anomaly from the outset.

I have to agree with you. This is not a new issue with stainless steel.

If the slide and frame are galling, I would think someone gundecked a heat treatment report that should have rejected some parts. It does not always take a lot of force to literally weld two incompatible pieces of metal together.

In point of fact, we had some flight safety bolts and nuts for a helicopter rotor assembly that were improperly heat treated. The nut spun on the bolt by hand with little resistance and had to be sectioned to get it apart. The nut and bolt were literally fused together and they were only finger tight to assemble and completely destroyed to get them apart.

[polyphemus]

Say,hypothethically there was a squib and the barrel was then bulged and the
slide froze as it retracted.Would that be a likely cause?

[cecILL]

Nephew's stainless 1911A1 locked up tight. Assume from no lube cause there was no lube. Sandwiched frame between two 2x4s and used a rubber mallet to beat the slide off. Picked the slide metal out of the frame rails with an ice pick and single edge razor blade. All was well.

[buckhorn_cortez]

Could not disagree with you more. Pictures could have helped remove a ton of the speculation. In this instance pics IMHO would have lead more people to believe that the gun had suffered galling vs an improperly installed slide stop etc...

Exactly HOW would you determine either of these hypothetical problems from a photograph showing a slide partially open /closed?

It's a mechanical problem, not a blemish that's a surface fault that can be easily seen in a photograph. This is like claiming you can diagnose a damaged bearing in an automobile engine through a photo of the motor.

If the slide stop was inserted in front of the link - you could not have seen this with a photograph as the link is inside the slide and slide stop is fully inserted into the pistol.

Galling? You're going to see galling on the slide through a photograph of a pistol with the slide stuck partially open? HOW? You can't see the rails.

All photos do is feed more speculation as people imagine they're seeing things in a case like this.

[Dashunde]

DW has the gun... How about we just wait until the op reports back.

[WVsig]

Update????