.223 Barnes bullet pic

mohr308 · August 18, 2012, 11:26 PM

I took out the AR-15 for some Barnes tsx 62grain testing today and other bullets also. Anyway I decided to try out the claim of how a Barnes expands and retains weight. The target was a row of 5 Arizona Iced tea jugs filled with water which are think skinned @100yds. The bullet retained 100% of its weight! Here is a pic.

FrankenMauser · August 19, 2012, 01:01 AM

Nice expansion.

But... are you sure it retained all of its weight?

I loaded some 53 gr TSX FBs in .220 Swift a few years ago, but their actual weight was 57-58 gr. Yes... picking nits, but I'm curious.

Adamantium · August 19, 2012, 10:15 AM

That is a sweet looking bullet, is it recommended for 1:7 only?

Brian Pfleuger · August 19, 2012, 10:28 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by FrankenMauser

I loaded some 53 gr TSX FBs in .220 Swift a few years ago, but their actual weight was 57-58 gr. Yes... picking nits, but I'm curious.

Wow! I'd have had a chat with Barnes about that!

I use Barnes TTSX bullets in 3 different calibers and they're all within a few 10ths of stated weight, like any other bullets I've weighed.

Double Naught Spy · August 19, 2012, 10:49 AM

Weight retention isn't a big deal when using copper. This is not a feature unique to Barnes. However, they do make the disclaimer that weight retention is at normal impact velocities. At short ranges and hitting hard tissue such as bone, they note that their bullets certainly can fail and lose petals.

Taurus solid copper bullets also have the same claim of virtually 100% weight retention as well.

Also see http://www.chuckhawks.com/barnes_bul...zzleloader.htm

Brian Pfleuger · August 19, 2012, 11:21 AM

"Fail" is a strong word, if it's a reference to performance. Fail in terms of metal "failure", pieces breaking off, yes, but Barnes is very adamant that the bullets will perform well in terms of lethality at literally any speed, the only caveat being a lack of expansion below 1,800 fps.
Actually, a Barnes tech told me that he wouldn't expect loss of petals at any speed unless "heavy bone" was hit.

mohr308 · August 19, 2012, 02:20 PM

I weighed all the bullets before loading and the one I recovered weighed the same after impact. These bullets are recommended for 1:9 twist or faster, so they should work just fine for a 1:7 twist. I loaded that bullet with LC brass, CCI 41 primer and 25 grains of CFE223.

Double Naught Spy · August 19, 2012, 06:00 PM

Quote:

"Fail" is a strong word, if it's a reference to performance. Fail in terms of metal "failure", pieces breaking off, yes,...Actually, a Barnes tech told me that he wouldn't expect loss of petals at any speed unless "heavy bone" was hit.

I believe I pretty much covered all of this except for the word of "heavy." However, "fail" was the exact word I meant to say because the discussion at hand was weight retention and most hollowpoints lose weight via "failure" of the structure.

Quote:

but Barnes is very adamant that the bullets will perform well in terms of lethality at literally any speed

How did the Barnes tech define lethality in milk jugs?

mohr308 · August 19, 2012, 06:14 PM

I did mention the jugs were from Arizona iced tea, which the plastic is about 3x the thickness of a milk jug. It did penetrate into 3 jugs and was stopped at the backside of the 3rd. This was just a test to recover a bullet and see its pattern when opened. I have read from many reviews people using these on deer and getting full pass thru even when hitting bone. I have yet to see and prove it to myself, but when the season comes I will test it.

I did test the bullets before using CFE223 with CCI 400 primers and did not get very good results, with the new primer I'm getting tighter groups.

Brian Pfleuger · August 19, 2012, 06:20 PM

I shot a button buck with one 2 years ago.
110gr TTSX from 15" Encore Pro Hunter in 7mm-08, 2900fps.
40 yards.
It was a BOOM!, flop, blat!, dead.
Took several minutes to find the entrance, exit was 3/4 inch approximately.
Bullet path was at least 8" from the heart but the heart was split open.
Entrance was 3/4 up chest, exit was 1/2. Roughly.

snuffy · August 20, 2012, 11:48 AM

Pretty much a standard looking Barnes bullet! These were fired into a medium called the bullet test tube. A wax medium that comes real close to mammal muscle tissue.

Wound cavity is real hard to see with an all-copper bullet. No lead "wake" to see where it went, or how much disruption it made. Entrance was on the right, it made it all the way though 8" of medium, and was found after penetrating 6 layers of rags in a back-up tube. The petals open just after impact, the max energy dump is right away, if you can see the "bubble" at the beginning of the wound cavity. Then the bullet penetrates as a solid.

This was fired in my 20" bushy AR-15 with a 1-9 twist. Impact was @ 25 yards.

mohr308 · August 20, 2012, 12:40 PM

what was your load for that bullet? I was using mine out of my 16" AR also a 1:9 twist

snuffy · August 20, 2012, 07:39 PM

You're going to make me go look aren't you? BRB.

I remember it was IMR-8208 XBR, but I can't find the data for the charge weight. Mid range from 21.0 to 23.1 according to the Hodgdon website. IIRC it was 22.0 grains. I did not chronograph them either.

I was testing a lot of .224 hunting bullets at that time, just to see what I would load IF I were to get a chance to go hunting again. AND I decided to carry the AR.

August 19, 2012, 01:01 AM	#2
FrankenMauser Senior Member Join Date: August 25, 2008 Location: In the valley above the plain Posts: 13,424	Nice expansion. But... are you sure it retained all of its weight? I loaded some 53 gr TSX FBs in .220 Swift a few years ago, but their actual weight was 57-58 gr. Yes... picking nits, but I'm curious. __________________ Don't even try it. It's even worse than the internet would lead you to believe.

August 19, 2012, 10:15 AM	#3
Adamantium Senior Member Join Date: June 6, 1999 Location: El Paso, TX Posts: 1,021	That is a sweet looking bullet, is it recommended for 1:7 only? __________________ New gun, same ol' shot.

August 19, 2012, 10:49 AM	#5
Double Naught Spy Senior Member Join Date: January 8, 2001 Location: Forestburg, Montague Cnty, TX Posts: 12,717	Weight retention isn't a big deal when using copper. This is not a feature unique to Barnes. However, they do make the disclaimer that weight retention is at normal impact velocities. At short ranges and hitting hard tissue such as bone, they note that their bullets certainly can fail and lose petals. Taurus solid copper bullets also have the same claim of virtually 100% weight retention as well. Also see http://www.chuckhawks.com/barnes_bul...zzleloader.htm __________________ "If you look through your scope and see your shoe, aim higher." -- said to me by my 11 year old daughter before going out for hogs 8/13/2011 My Hunting Videos https://www.youtube.com/user/HornHillRange

August 19, 2012, 02:20 PM	#7
mohr308 Senior Member Join Date: January 15, 2012 Location: Western New York Posts: 466	I weighed all the bullets before loading and the one I recovered weighed the same after impact. These bullets are recommended for 1:9 twist or faster, so they should work just fine for a 1:7 twist. I loaded that bullet with LC brass, CCI 41 primer and 25 grains of CFE223. __________________ Lock and load, the zombies (democrats) are coming (to take your guns)!

August 19, 2012, 06:14 PM	#9
mohr308 Senior Member Join Date: January 15, 2012 Location: Western New York Posts: 466	I did mention the jugs were from Arizona iced tea, which the plastic is about 3x the thickness of a milk jug. It did penetrate into 3 jugs and was stopped at the backside of the 3rd. This was just a test to recover a bullet and see its pattern when opened. I have read from many reviews people using these on deer and getting full pass thru even when hitting bone. I have yet to see and prove it to myself, but when the season comes I will test it. I did test the bullets before using CFE223 with CCI 400 primers and did not get very good results, with the new primer I'm getting tighter groups. __________________ Lock and load, the zombies (democrats) are coming (to take your guns)!

August 19, 2012, 11:21 AM	#6
Brian Pfleuger Moderator Emeritus Join Date: June 25, 2008 Location: Austin, CO Posts: 19,578	"Fail" is a strong word, if it's a reference to performance. Fail in terms of metal "failure", pieces breaking off, yes, but Barnes is very adamant that the bullets will perform well in terms of lethality at literally any speed, the only caveat being a lack of expansion below 1,800 fps. Actually, a Barnes tech told me that he wouldn't expect loss of petals at any speed unless "heavy bone" was hit.

August 19, 2012, 06:20 PM	#10
Brian Pfleuger Moderator Emeritus Join Date: June 25, 2008 Location: Austin, CO Posts: 19,578	I shot a button buck with one 2 years ago. 110gr TTSX from 15" Encore Pro Hunter in 7mm-08, 2900fps. 40 yards. It was a BOOM!, flop, blat!, dead. Took several minutes to find the entrance, exit was 3/4 inch approximately. Bullet path was at least 8" from the heart but the heart was split open. Entrance was 3/4 up chest, exit was 1/2. Roughly.

August 20, 2012, 11:48 AM	#11
snuffy Senior Member Join Date: May 20, 2001 Location: Oshkosh wi. Posts: 3,055	Pretty much a standard looking Barnes bullet! These were fired into a medium called the bullet test tube. A wax medium that comes real close to mammal muscle tissue. Wound cavity is real hard to see with an all-copper bullet. No lead "wake" to see where it went, or how much disruption it made. Entrance was on the right, it made it all the way though 8" of medium, and was found after penetrating 6 layers of rags in a back-up tube. The petals open just after impact, the max energy dump is right away, if you can see the "bubble" at the beginning of the wound cavity. Then the bullet penetrates as a solid. This was fired in my 20" bushy AR-15 with a 1-9 twist. Impact was @ 25 yards. __________________ The more people I meet, the more I love my dog They're going to get their butts kicked over there this election. How come people can't spell and use words correctly?

August 20, 2012, 12:40 PM	#12
mohr308 Senior Member Join Date: January 15, 2012 Location: Western New York Posts: 466	Snuffy what was your load for that bullet? I was using mine out of my 16" AR also a 1:9 twist __________________ Lock and load, the zombies (democrats) are coming (to take your guns)!

August 20, 2012, 07:39 PM	#13
snuffy Senior Member Join Date: May 20, 2001 Location: Oshkosh wi. Posts: 3,055	You're going to make me go look aren't you? BRB. I remember it was IMR-8208 XBR, but I can't find the data for the charge weight. Mid range from 21.0 to 23.1 according to the Hodgdon website. IIRC it was 22.0 grains. I did not chronograph them either. I was testing a lot of .224 hunting bullets at that time, just to see what I would load IF I were to get a chance to go hunting again. AND I decided to carry the AR. __________________ The more people I meet, the more I love my dog They're going to get their butts kicked over there this election. How come people can't spell and use words correctly?