New to CCW - What am I looking for?

[bitttorrrent]

Ok, Illinois - look out for the CCW laws upcoming. I know I'm jumping the gun, but it is going to happen especially with the news that the NRA won their case about it being unconstitutional to limit gun owners to only possess in their home (current law in IL).

Anyway, I have read a bunch and was looking to get another full size gun, but have now switched to a good concealed carry.

I have seen a bunch of new ones and am interested but don't know what I need for CCW:
Safety? aka no Glock - (i have children around)
Hammer or striker?
9mm or .45?

I am leaning toward a 9mm, so:
Baretta Nano
M&P Shield
Glock ??
SCCY
xds - is that .45 only?
Kahr

I'm not sure if Nano is too small - I have larger hands so want to be able to hold it with space on the frame for my fingers.

I have heard good things about the Nano and shield and Kahrs. I have shot a Kal tec pf9? or whateve that is and I did not like the recoil.
Held a Sccy at the store and it looked and felt very nice!

So I have more research to do, but just wondering if any one gun steps out as a very popular and nice piece or if it is really up to individual preferences.

thanks,

[breakingcontact]

Appreciate your optimism.

I vote Shield.

[doofus47]

Held a Sccy at the store and it looked and felt very nice!

If it fits you, that's the place to start. The less you have to think about in a ccw situation, the better off, imo.

[kinoons]

I'd rethink your safety vs children thought process -- if you get to the point of the pistol's safety is what's stopping your pistol from going off in your child's hands you've lost.

So I wouldn't count out glocks (well I would, I dont like glocks). However, this allows for the inclusion of a walther PPS -- an absolute perfect concealed carry pistol.

[Cheapshooter]

Being in the Kremlin of the Peoples Republic of Illinois it may be hard to find, but if you can spend some time at indoor ranges that rent guns the time and money will be well spent. Pick a few that you really like the features, and feel of, and give them a try. At this time the XDS is only available in 45 ACP, but if you are not sensitive to the recoil I think it would be a good choice. Your other choices are all valid as well. As far as the Glock, and children around I don't see what difference the brand, or trigger system makes. The same safety protocol is necessary regardless of make.

[chris in va]

Please don't do what I did and buy a gun just because everyone recommended it. Rent everything you can get your hands on, and rent some more.

Only then can you start to see what will work for your needs. I will say though a 9mm would be a fine place to start...and stay with. Ammo is effective and affordable for the amount of shooting you'll be doing.

[jimbob86]

I found the Nano to have a really high bore axis ..... and felt "clunky".....

I am a 1911 guy ..... but am on a 9mm budget (I am so poor I reload 9mm!) ..... I like my EMP, but if I had to buy a new Carry gun within my current budget, it'd be an sR9c, hands down.

SIG's 938 looks good, but I like to be able to get all my fingers on the grip......

[AndyWest]

What chris_in_va said. It's important that you're comfortable with your CCW so rent all you can. LCPs are great (ask me after my spring and hogues arrive next week) but they can literally hurt to shoot.

[jimbob86]

LCPs are great (ask me after my spring and hogues arrive next week) but they can literally hurt to shoot.

Anything in .380 is going to be a pain in the wallet to shoot, compared to 9mm.

Any of those tiny mouse guns is going to be less than pleasant to shoot.

Get something that you will practice with regularly, because only hits count.

[serf 'rett]

While I have a good Crossbreed holster for the 9mm Springfield XDm, I find the Kahr P9 is what gets carried. The small size is convenient. The P9 has no safety, just long double action trigger. Mine shoots surprisingly good groups for a small pistol.

I've also shot the Shield and like it. Little different trigger. The Shield's only downside, in my opinion, is it has a safety. My thoughts are simple - if I'm in a tight enough spot that I'm forced to draw from concealment, I just want to point and pull.

[thedudeabides]

Pocket guns have a place, you have a gun when you jog, bike, leave the house for a quick errand. They also suck to shoot, aren't that accurate, and I think are a fad perpetrated by the recent upsurge in CCW culture and panic gun purchases--something manufacturers have been happy to oblige a gun buying public with. I have a P290 and a LCP, they're terrible to shoot and beat up my fingers.

Most compact/subcompact guns like the Shield, G29/30, XDs can still be concealed and carried without a headache, you just have to commit to get a good holster and dress to conceal. I've gone back to carrying a real gun, a P229, instead.

It's much more of a reassuring feeling to have a solid 40 or 45 CCW than some plastic 380 pea-shooter that is "reliable enough" on a good day.

[jimbob86]

It's much more of a reassuring feeling to have a solid 40 or 45 CCW than some plastic 380 pea-shooter

I am far more reassured carrying a gun that I can afford to shoot often...... even though my gun set me back $1000 dollars, I am pretty sure I have put more than that down much in ammo through it...... .45 would have doubled that cost, and .40 ..... still not as inexpensive as 9.

[mete]

Never underestimate the ingenuity of a child !!
The is a story about S&W designing a revolver tha a child couldn't fire .They gave an unloaded one to a young child and he quickly 'fired ' it !!

[Yung.gunr]

Ya know, a lot of guys say the pocket autos are painful to shoot. I think SOME of them are, I have a TCP, I've shot one of the Kel Tec 9s and those two can be painful. But, I also have a Sig P238 that I actually like shooting. If you are going for a pocket auto I would definitely recommend that. Currently those are the only ones I have shot.

If you are going for something bigger and going IWB that really opens up your options. It also gets you into a softer shooting larger (than pocket size) 9mm. That way you don't have to worry about the $$$ of ammo as much.

If you do want to go with a larger caliber there are tons of holsters and guns out there that will work. I would suggest looking for a good IWB holster for a pistol you already have (assuming you have one). That way you can get a better idea of what you want before spending the money on a new gun you may end up not liking.

Honestly, concealing a full size is all about holster selection. I have a XD9 with the 4" barrel and with my CTAC holster it is invisible to 99.9% of the population. The only ones who see it are other people who CC so they know what they are looking at.

[loose_holster_dan]

Safety? aka no Glock - (i have children around)

as others have said, a safety isn't going to stop a child.

Hammer or striker?

up to you. i find that striker is more comfortable to carry since you don't have a hammer poking into your love handles. however, some DAO pistols have recessed hammers (i.e. sig p229 DAK)

9mm or .45?

most of my carry guns are 9mm. it's just easier to handle the recoil for quick follow up shots.

Beretta Nano
M&P Shield

i group these together. both are good concepts with poor execution. in the same size with better execution - walther pps

Glock ??

reliable, but too wide and blocky for my taste. prints terribly in a tshirt. trigger leaves much to be desired. grip angle is strange to get used to. smallest glock is difficult to get a hold on. glock 19 grip prints due to blocky shape. similar size as glock 19 with better ergonomics, trigger, concealability - walther ppq

SCCY

i don't even know what this is.

xds - is that .45 only?

45 only. quite a bit of recoil. in nearly the same package for 9mm - walther pps

Kahr

good option. good size. good feel. acceptable trigger.

[bitttorrrent]

Thanks for all the insight!

but am on a 9mm budget (I am so poor I reload 9mm!)

Don't have to be poor. I'm learning to load 9mm because my Father is teaching me and most of mine are 9mm. He loads .45 mostly. You can cut your ammo costs if loading a lot and it is good to learn on. He had the press and all the materials - so it was just one die set and was ready to go.

For those who don't know:
SCCY Industries
CPX-1 Two Tone MSRP $339
CPX-2 Two Tone MSRP $319
Neat little guns that I am willing to give a chance too despite some early production problems with the initial product, but is made in Florida and have no trouble supporting a Completely American gun.

So sounds like:
Striker fired to eliminate snagging of hammer etc.
9mm - size and cost, I don't think I need a small gun with that big of a caliber.
Safety - Still out on this. I don't rely on a safety and in a clutch it could cause confusion. But a safety is one more step with others around - kids,wife etc.
Did anyone hear of 7yr old shot a few days ago by mistake from Father when his gun went off with one in the chamber putting it in center console of truck while son in back? If there was a safety would the kid still be alive? I don't know.

So, at the moment I am going to store and look at
S&W shield
the above gen2 SCCY CPx
Sig
Wahlter ppq or pps
Kahr

[loose_holster_dan]

just looked up the cpx. looks exactly like a keltec pf9 (another gun i would not recommend). 9mm that light in that small of a package kick like mules. also, the space between the trigger and trigger guard is pretty big. with guns this small, it forces you to hold the gun in an awkward way that forces your finger further down the trigger. this can cause it to get pinched against the trigger guard when you pull the trigger and it recoils. absolutely no fun to shoot.

[bitttorrrent]

Yes, I did not like the Kel Tek. The SCCY is probably somewhat of a copy, but it is supposed to have a recoil buffer built into the handle, but it probably does not do much.

Problem is that my local range (right across the edge of Chicago City limits) only has full size for rent. I never see the compact or subcompact and a decent size gun store with all these options is like an hour away. A pain, but I will just have to decide on one and order it.

Worst case is that I will end up with several. I want to grow my collection anyway.

I am very interested in the shield, so might be able to find that on display a bit closer?

[Tom Servo]

Ok, Illinois - look out for the CCW laws upcoming. I know I'm jumping the gun, but it is going to happen especially with the news that the NRA won their case about it being unconstitutional to limit gun owners to only possess in their home (current law in IL).

Well, that could be in six months, or it could get pushed back a couple of years if the state decides to fight it through the legal system.

In the meantime, you've got plenty of time to rent guns and see what you shoot well. You've also got plenty of time to take classes. I can't stress the importance of that enough.

[Lordy123]

I am very interested in the shield, so might be able to find that on display a bit closer?

I haven't been able to find one on display anywhere... Are they having trouble keeping up with demand still?

[Pianoguy]

Regarding the safety, if a child can pull the trigger they can dis-engage the saftey so that certainly won't make it childproff by a long sight. A DAO gun with a heavier trigger pull would be better there. Better yet for little kids is take the bullet out of the chamber. Have the magazine full and ready to go but with a trigger that has nothing to strike. If the kids are young enough they most likely won't be able to rack the slide. The chance that you would need the 1 second necessary to rack the slide while in your home is worth losing to keep the gun safe (or considerably safer)around the house. Also if someone else gets it they may forget to rack the slide giving you time to defend yourself. (We had a case of a drunk with a semi-auto who wanted to kill a guy and his girlfriend last year. He kept pointing and pulling the trigger but never thought to chamber a round- they were a very lucky couple).

As to good CC guns it will depend on how you want to carry it (pocket, IWB) which will be based on how you dress. There are some really nice choices if you can do IWB that don't require a sub-compact mouse gun - more capacity, easier (and more fun)to shoot, more accurate.

[Gaerek]

Ok, Illinois - look out for the CCW laws upcoming. I know I'm jumping the gun, but it is going to happen especially with the news that the NRA won their case about it being unconstitutional to limit gun owners to only possess in their home (current law in IL).

Congrats on the win. Keep in mind the legislature still has to craft a law governing the issuance of permits, and it's possible they might go with a California/NJ/etc form of "May Issue" effective ban. Write your state lawmakers and make sure they know that's not what you want. I'll keep cautiously optimistic for you guys.

Anyway, I have read a bunch and was looking to get another full size gun, but have now switched to a good concealed carry.

Keep in mind it's very possible to carry a full sized gun concealed. I don't know your situation/wardrobe, but I know it's possible. I carry a Glock 19 with T-Shirt and Shorts with no issue (I am right now, actually). I'm confident I could carry a 17 as well (I've actually carried my father-in-laws G21 in T-Shirt and Shorts, no issue).

I'm going to break up the next few issues into bite sized chunks to deal with each issue individually.

I have seen a bunch of new ones and am interested but don't know what I need for CCW:

See above. It depends on your wardrobe and situation. You also have to consider how you will carry. There are so many different ways to carry. Personally, I'd decide how I would want to carry before I deal with what gun to get for carrying. Mainly because depending on how you want to carry is going to change what guns will work for it.

Safety? aka no Glock - (i have children around)

A safety will not keep a child from firing your gun. The safety is to help prevent YOU from accidentally (negligently) firing your gun. In the end, the only safety that matters is the one between your ears. As I've seen it put so eloquently:

Keep your booger hook off the bang switch!!!

I have a Glock, and have kids around. Here's the trick. The gun is always in one of 3 places. It's either on me (kids can't get access), in my safe (too high for kids to reach, and almost impossible for them to open), in the mini safe in my car (only used when I have to go somewhere guns aren't allowed...and kids aren't able to access). There is no mechanical device you can add to a gun to keep a kid from firing it. Just make sure they can't access it...that's the best bet.

Hammer or striker?

This is preference. Either one will work just fine. Hammer fired DA/SA are a bit more complicated than SA (1911 style) hammer fired, which are a bit more complicated than Striker fired or DAO Hammer fired. However, none are difficult to learn, and all will suit you just fine. Again, this is really a non-issue for the most part.

9mm or .45?

The Internet will be debating this one until TEOTWAWKI. Again, this is preference. Both have advantages and drawbacks. I'd recommend 9mm, but there's nothing wrong with a .45. Shoot both, decide what you like.

I am leaning toward a 9mm, so:
Baretta Nano
M&P Shield
Glock ??
SCCY
xds - is that .45 only?
Kahr

On this list, the only one I wouldn't recommend is the SCCY. Although this is just anecdote, this post on Gunbrokers forums should give you pause.

http://forums.gunbroker.com/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=336275

SCCY's are newer, and I have heard a lot of bad about them. 2 gun stores in my area have stopped selling them because of all the problems. I personally wouldn't carry or recommend them. There's people who've never had an issue. So buy at your own risk.

The rest of the guns on the list are all good, tried and trued designs. You won't go wrong with any of them.

I'm not sure if Nano is too small - I have larger hands so want to be able to hold it with space on the frame for my fingers.

I don't think I would personally recommend a subcompact as a first gun. People make a big deal out of being able to conceal anything larger than a sub. I would honestly recommend something along the size of a Glock 19. The Sig SP2022 is a steal of a deal right now, and it's about the size of the G19. Ruger SR9c is a great gun. M&P 9 compact is super popular right now. The compact XD and XDm's are great as well. These are all much easier to shoot and practice with than those subs that you've listed. However, if you have your heart set on a sub, then any of those (except what I mentioned) will work well.

I have heard good things about the Nano and shield and Kahrs. I have shot a Kal tec pf9? or whateve that is and I did not like the recoil.
Held a Sccy at the store and it looked and felt very nice!

So I have more research to do, but just wondering if any one gun steps out as a very popular and nice piece or if it is really up to individual preferences.

thanks,

Start researching holsters and carry systems while you research guns. The Gun Digest Book on Concealed Carry will give you a lot of information about what's available, and what works and what doesn't. It's a book worth the $12 or so you'll pay for it. I still reference my copy, and even bought the updated version.

[jason_iowa]

xd or sig in 45. Safeties do not make guns safe they give the illusion of safety. I wont carry a gun with an active safety and would never recommend it to someone else. Whatever your preference is fine I'm just giving you mine.

Nothing wrong with Glock either I just do not prefer them. If you want a pocket carry I would go with a 38/357 j frame or the like. 5 shots is plenty for defensive situations. I would never carry or recommend 22lr, 25, 32, 380 or the like for a defensive weapon. Other people will tell you that they work or are preferable to nothing. I say if you are going to carry something carry something worth carrying.

I would never carry a 40. I think they are a complete waste. I know many like them. I do not. I do not care for 9mil but i can see the appeal of high cap mags for suppressive fire. I just can't imagine ever needing that in a defensive weapon. Having used a .45 side arm all around the world in combat and back home as an LEO and a private citizen I would accept nothing less. 10mil, 357 mag, 44sp, 45 lc, are also good for defensive uses with the right round selection.

[Gaerek]

Other people will tell you that they work or are preferable to nothing. I say if you are going to carry something carry something worth carrying.

What's the saying?

If you're going to carry a gun, then carry a gun, and make sure you have enough gun.

Carry the biggest round you can conceal. With the proliferation of pocket 9's, there's almost no reason for .380's and below anymore. If you can't conceal an LC9 sized gun, you need to be wearing more than your underwear outside.

[BGutzman]

SIG P290 - can be had in the 500-600 dollar range with a little looking... Its a Sig so it doesn't suffer the ugly duck syndrome.... No external safety, but many internal safety's...

1st Gen had issues, but that all seems to be resolved.... Pick one up and the gun shop and handle it, shake it and check out everything, its a lot of gun....

My other recommendation would be Bersa 9mm... Inexpensive but high quality guns.. Not to say fit and finish is the same as many more expensive guns but still very reliable.

In the end its all in what works for you.... But my final advice is don't buy anything because its popular, or cool, find what works regardless of brand that you like and enjoy.