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February 8, 2013, 12:03 PM | #1 |
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Virginia Woman Charged with Dealing w/o a License
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Has anyone seen anything more substantive about this? Hopefully this incident will do some good by bringing to light some numbers about similar situations and laws, where enforcement may or may not be consistent. I do find it unfortunate that the title and formatting of the article implies that buying that number is somehow illegal(instead of woman resells or sells 31 handguns in 2 weeks they focus on the buying). |
February 8, 2013, 01:16 PM | #2 |
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As far as the media formatting the verbeage in the article...sounds typical.
As far as She goes....ya' can't fix 'stupid'.
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February 8, 2013, 02:32 PM | #3 |
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If she's convicted, I think this may be a case of the defendant "talking her way into a prison sentence". There's nothing explicitly illegal about buying a large number of guns in a short time, now that "one gun a month" is no longer the law here in Virginia. And I don't even think there's anything inherently illegal about privately selling multiple guns in a short time - think of a collector culling out his collection, or a widow selling her dead husband's guns.
It sounds like her problem is going to come from the fact that she admitted to buying the guns with the intent to turn them around for a profit. |
February 8, 2013, 02:48 PM | #4 | |
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For those of you who may never have worked in the criminal defense field, let assure you that you would be astounded at the number of people who talk themselves right into jail time.
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February 10, 2013, 08:34 AM | #5 |
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Here's an article from when she was indicted. She's plead guilty and I'll try to find that one as well. There is much more to this story then what's been in the articles.
http://manassas.patch.com/articles/m...y-selling-guns
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February 10, 2013, 11:47 AM | #6 |
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Here it is...
http://manassas.patch.com/topics/Kim...Yvette+Dinkins
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February 10, 2013, 11:57 AM | #7 |
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When you deal in firearms for profit, you are a dealer.
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February 10, 2013, 06:30 PM | #8 |
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Even if she admitted nothing, buying 31 of them in two weeks in person (at gun shows) is unusual even for collectors (unusual, not impossible or criminal). If she really resold them all within 16 days, it would be difficult to convince a jury she didn't intend to resell when she bought them.
Obligatory: "Don't talk to the police" (in serious criminal matters)
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February 10, 2013, 09:22 PM | #9 |
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My Dad knew a coin/stamp collector who got in trouble for the very same thing.... He was a "collector" who supported his family by buying and selling coins and stamps. There were a lot of issues with the IRS, and he chose to fight them. It did not turn out well for him.
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February 11, 2013, 01:56 AM | #10 |
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Saying that selling guns at a profit makes you a dealer is not the case. If you are doing it as a livelihood that's a different thing.
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February 11, 2013, 01:22 PM | #11 | |||||||||
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"Engaged in the business" is defined at 18 USC 921(a)(21)(C), emphasis added: The operative concepts are (1) devoting time, attention and labor; (2) doing so regularly as a trade or business; (3) the repetitive purchase and resale of guns; and (4) intending to make money. "Livelihood" simply means: Nothing in the statutory definition of "engaged in the business" requires that it be one's only business or means of support. It could be a side business, a secondary business or one of several ways you have of bringing money into the household. What matters is that you're doing it regularly to make money. You don't even necessarily need to make a profit to be "engaged in business." People go into business all the time and wind up not making money. It's not that they're not engaged in business; it's just that they're not very good at it. But an occasional sale is not being "engaged in the business." Where is the the line between an occasional sale and the repetitive purchase and resale? That's not clear from the statutes. Let's see what some courts have said:
Also, it's worthwhile to note that profits are taxable as short term or long term capital gains. But if one isn't engaged in a business some deductions ordinarily allowable as business expenses would not be allowable.
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February 12, 2013, 09:56 AM | #12 |
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Thanks for the good info Etten...that took a little time to put together?
I do think that a business dealing in Firearms is under a little more scruttiney than say a nail salon. Background checks, Federal forms, inspections - you are dealing with the Federal government more then if you moved a few cases of hair spray to customers. That said, the line or number is not clear or if that is a State thing since your business must be registered with the state. I think it comes down to common sense. We all have bought or sold a few guns here and there, but this person was buying and selling at a good pace which is not in the normal realm of gun collecting. I am even limited in my county of 1 gun a week or the dealer has to send some additional form to the Feds that they did NOT want to do. So when I ordered two guns at once, I had to wait for the second week for them to send in the 2nd gun form so it was under the radar. So if I have to do all that just for (2) little handguns, you would suspect that the person who thinks they can run around buying and selling 15 guns at a time should very well have thought to get all the licenses and insurance that is needed. |
February 12, 2013, 04:56 PM | #13 | |||
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Frank, the law you provide is an excellent review of the issue and it is a real service for you to provide that cogent summary. The acrimonious introduction is "a different thing".
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February 12, 2013, 05:30 PM | #14 | |||
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is far too imprecise to be helpful. Indeed, the Third Circuit in Tyson (at 200), makes no distinction between "profit" and "livelihood": Essentially one factor is whether the actor's principal motivation is economic, whether called "profit" or "livelihood" is of no consequence. So Jason_Iowa's contrived distinction between "profit" and "livelihood" really doesn't help us understand the underlying legal issues. The courts which have looked at the question have identified multiple factors which would need to be considered by the trier of fact to decide whether or not a defendant was "engaged in the business."
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February 12, 2013, 06:35 PM | #15 |
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February 12, 2013, 06:41 PM | #16 | ||||
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February 12, 2013, 07:07 PM | #17 | |
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February 12, 2013, 07:21 PM | #18 |
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I think the only way she could possibly sells things sold at Chantilly (rather expensive show) for a profit that quick was that she was selling them to criminals.
By the time you pay the going price and taxes it will be a rare event where you can sell it to another legal buyer for a profit. He/she could go buy it for the same price and not your mark up, if they can legally buy it. Not sure selling them quickly is a crime, but selling them to banned people is.
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February 12, 2013, 08:08 PM | #19 |
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Post #11 is pretty darned clear. There is a lot of frivolous messing around with words in some of the other posts which vary from confusing to underwhelming. Enough.
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