Legality Clarification

DTakas · April 23, 2006, 12:28 AM

Looking for a little clarification. From what I understand it is illegal to have sufficient parts for assembling a illegal weapon even if the parts aren't put together. As I understand it, with an SBS for example, the receiver is what is registered not the barrel. So a short barrel without owning any shotgun at all wouldn't be illegal but having a short barrel for an 870 in the basement with an 870 in a closet upstairs would be? Even if the 870 upstairs has a legal barrel on it in addition to the short one in the basement?
(Just so no one flips out this is purely hypothetical.)

DTakas · April 25, 2006, 11:50 AM

OK, Well, I see no one is touching this one.

I had another question I was trying to get at but it would be irrelevant if I couldn?t confirm that it was illegal to have parts capable of making an illegal weapon even if those parts were spares for a complete and legally configured firearm.

My real question is. . . If you have a foreign weapon you want to put into an assault type configuration you have to replace foreign parts with US parts until the total US parts are of a sufficient number. At that point you can add all the evil accessories you want. So then is it illegal to keep the original parts? If you still have your foreign parts then technically you have parts capable of creating an illegal firearm. Just curious about this because I know there are a lot of people out there who keep their old parts so that if they later choose they can restore to original if they so choose.

Trapp · April 25, 2006, 06:48 PM

What you are refering to is "Constructive Possesion". As far as all of my research shows that the only "CP" is with a machine gun.

ALA:http://www.cs.cmu.edu/afs/cs/usr/wba...tf_letter7.txt

and:

M. FIREARMS - NATIONAL FIREARMS ACT (NFA)

(M1) The types of firearms that must be registered in the National Firearm Registration and Transfer Record are defined in the NFA and in 27 CFR Part 179. What are some examples? [Back]

Some examples of the types of firearms that must be registered are:
Machineguns;
The frames or receivers of machineguns;
Any combination of parts designed and intended for use in converting weapons into machineguns;
Any part designed and intended solely and exclusively for converting a weapon into a machinegun;
Any combination of parts from which a machinegun can be assembled if the parts are in the possession or under the control of a person;
Silencers and any part designed and intended for fabricating a silencer;
Short-barreled rifles;
Short-barreled shotguns;
Destructive devices; and,
"Any other weapons."

A few examples of destructive devices are:
Molotov cocktails;
Anti-tank guns (over caliber .50);
Bazookas; and,
Mortars.

A few examples of "any other weapon" are:
H& R Handyguns;
Ithaca Auto-Burglar guns;
Cane guns; and,
Gadget-type firearms and "pen" guns which fire fixed ammunition.

Nothing in there says "Parts to convert a gun into an SBR", Yet there are specific provisions for Machine guns.......

atlctyslkr · April 25, 2006, 08:09 PM

Why can't the ATF operate under "Don't Ask Don't Tell"

MisterPX · April 25, 2006, 09:22 PM

Constructive intent can also apply to SBS and SBR's.
On your second Q, since you already have the US parts in hand, no worries about the OEM parts, as long as the weapon itself is in 922 compliance.

**44 AMP** · April 25, 2006, 10:35 PM

The BATFE is the agency to ask, as it will be THEIR interpretation of the law that will determine whether or not they decide to prosecute.

Ask them (politely), and most important, get their answer in writing. And make copies, because, the BATF(E) has been known to change their minds, and what they say is ok today may not be ok tomorrow. Getting a decision, in writing, with a BATFE official's name, office, and signature on it, should, repeat, should, cover your butt legally.

Good luck, and keep us posted.

April 23, 2006, 12:28 AM	#1
DTakas Senior Member Join Date: November 23, 2005 Posts: 146	Legality Clarification Looking for a little clarification. From what I understand it is illegal to have sufficient parts for assembling a illegal weapon even if the parts aren't put together. As I understand it, with an SBS for example, the receiver is what is registered not the barrel. So a short barrel without owning any shotgun at all wouldn't be illegal but having a short barrel for an 870 in the basement with an 870 in a closet upstairs would be? Even if the 870 upstairs has a legal barrel on it in addition to the short one in the basement? (Just so no one flips out this is purely hypothetical.) __________________ Let courage rise with danger, and strength with strength oppose.

April 25, 2006, 11:50 AM	#2
DTakas Senior Member Join Date: November 23, 2005 Posts: 146	OK, Well, I see no one is touching this one. I had another question I was trying to get at but it would be irrelevant if I couldn?t confirm that it was illegal to have parts capable of making an illegal weapon even if those parts were spares for a complete and legally configured firearm. My real question is. . . If you have a foreign weapon you want to put into an assault type configuration you have to replace foreign parts with US parts until the total US parts are of a sufficient number. At that point you can add all the evil accessories you want. So then is it illegal to keep the original parts? If you still have your foreign parts then technically you have parts capable of creating an illegal firearm. Just curious about this because I know there are a lot of people out there who keep their old parts so that if they later choose they can restore to original if they so choose. __________________ Let courage rise with danger, and strength with strength oppose.

April 25, 2006, 06:48 PM	#3
Trapp Senior Member Join Date: December 5, 2004 Location: KTN Posts: 1,221	What you are refering to is "Constructive Possesion". As far as all of my research shows that the only "CP" is with a machine gun. ALA:http://www.cs.cmu.edu/afs/cs/usr/wba...tf_letter7.txt and: M. FIREARMS - NATIONAL FIREARMS ACT (NFA) (M1) The types of firearms that must be registered in the National Firearm Registration and Transfer Record are defined in the NFA and in 27 CFR Part 179. What are some examples? [Back] Some examples of the types of firearms that must be registered are: Machineguns; The frames or receivers of machineguns; Any combination of parts designed and intended for use in converting weapons into machineguns; Any part designed and intended solely and exclusively for converting a weapon into a machinegun; Any combination of parts from which a machinegun can be assembled if the parts are in the possession or under the control of a person; Silencers and any part designed and intended for fabricating a silencer; Short-barreled rifles; Short-barreled shotguns; Destructive devices; and, "Any other weapons." A few examples of destructive devices are: Molotov cocktails; Anti-tank guns (over caliber .50); Bazookas; and, Mortars. A few examples of "any other weapon" are: H& R Handyguns; Ithaca Auto-Burglar guns; Cane guns; and, Gadget-type firearms and "pen" guns which fire fixed ammunition. Nothing in there says "Parts to convert a gun into an SBR", Yet there are specific provisions for Machine guns....... __________________ HDR Ban!? It's a shame all of my guns sank with my boat last week... Time to catch up.....like mayonnaise

April 25, 2006, 10:35 PM	#6
44 AMP Staff Join Date: March 11, 2006 Location: Upper US Posts: 28,832	Batfe The BATFE is the agency to ask, as it will be THEIR interpretation of the law that will determine whether or not they decide to prosecute. Ask them (politely), and most important, get their answer in writing. And make copies, because, the BATF(E) has been known to change their minds, and what they say is ok today may not be ok tomorrow. Getting a decision, in writing, with a BATFE official's name, office, and signature on it, should, repeat, should, cover your butt legally. Good luck, and keep us posted.

April 25, 2006, 08:09 PM	#4
atlctyslkr Senior Member Join Date: March 6, 2006 Location: Atlanta, GA Posts: 613	Why can't the ATF operate under "Don't Ask Don't Tell"

April 25, 2006, 09:22 PM	#5
MisterPX Senior Member Join Date: April 25, 2006 Location: Amerika's Doyleland Posts: 809	Constructive intent can also apply to SBS and SBR's. On your second Q, since you already have the US parts in hand, no worries about the OEM parts, as long as the weapon itself is in 922 compliance.