1861 navy that will not cock - Page 2

denster · July 24, 2010, 10:16 PM

davem. On modern revolvers that use a single tooth hand,say S&W, you would be correct. On the colt percusion revolvers it works differently. The left corner of the hand flat picks up the tooth on the cylinder then as it goes through rotation it goes to the full flat then finally the right corner of the flat that carries it the final couple of degrees. Hand thickness has little to do with it. With other designs that don't have that big arbor to clear and the cylinder ratchet is closer to center the side of the hand carries the tooth the final few degrees of rotation. With that style hand thickness is a critical dimension.

ClemBert · July 25, 2010, 09:37 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Hardy

Wait--you were right. Sorry

LOL!...that's okay...even once in a while I get lucky.

The reason why I asked if you and I agreed on what "the sear" is because I was getting very confused as to what you were trying to describe as the problem in your earlier posts. BTW, I hope the trigger arm portion (long one) of the trigger/bolt spring isn't completely flat. It should curve towards the trigger "shelf".

davem · July 25, 2010, 01:23 PM

Thanks denster- I never knew that on the percussion mechanism. One other thing, sometimes the hand fits rather loosely in it's slot in the frame. It seems to me that the tighter the fit the better- within reason.
One last thing, someone a while back explained it but I forgot, on a Colt type mechanism, if you put the gun on half cock and then rotate the cylinder or lower the hammer or some such thing- that can cause a scoring on the cylinder even though the timing is okay. What is the proper way to handle the situation- say you loaded 5 chambers and wanted the hammer down on an empty/ un-capped nipple. Should you always bring the hammer back to full cock?
I'm sure a lot of other folks are also confused so any help appreciated.

ClemBert · July 25, 2010, 01:33 PM

davem,

Probably be best to start a new topic to get the proper answer you seek as you've veered away from the OP's original issue. You are more likely to get the response you want and fresh looks by creating a topic specific to your question.

denster · July 25, 2010, 05:36 PM

davem

With a percussion if you have it on half cock and want to lower it on a nipple then bring it to full cock and do so. If you want it on one of the safety pins then just lower it onto them and when ready to fire bring it to full cock. Where you score the cylinder is with a SAA or a percussion when you lower it from half cock and then rotate the cylinder by hand to bring a chamber in line with the barrel.

mykeal · July 25, 2010, 05:46 PM

When you place a Colt SA action in half cock the bolt is lowered to allow the cylinder to rotate freely; this is the normal operation we are all familiar with. There is no danger of the bolt scoring the cylinder with the hammer in half cock unless the bolt operation has been compromised by broken or improperly installed parts.

If the hammer is pulled back from half cock just far enough to release the sear (but not all the way to full cock) and then lowered to rest on a safety notch or pin or on a nipple, the bolt head will be raised back into the position for stopping cylinder rotation. If the cylinder is in a position such that there's no stop notch in place, the bolt head will land on the surface of the cylinder and scratch the surface of the cylinder when it's rotated to place the safety notch or pin or the nipple under the hammer.

To prevent that from happening one must either rotate the cylinder to the desired position (safety notch or pin or nipple 'in battery' under the hammer's final position) before the hammer is pulled back to release the sear from half cock, or the hammer must be pulled fully back into the full cock position before allowing it to fall to the down position.

Hardy · July 25, 2010, 08:42 PM

Am I talking to Nasa or the BP engineers?

Ha, just kiddin'. Um Clembert was trying to get to the two mechanisms that caused all the problems in my gun. I started out with a breakdown chart from Colt and the SEAR spring is now on Uberti listed as "sear and bolt spring" and the screw that fastens it is "bolt spring screw." After ordering all new parts, it was the little screw made in Italy that just didn't thread all the way down. And, it all started when I felt a need to fix something. By God it works great now! Who wants to start the bid?

Hardy · July 26, 2010, 08:29 PM

Hey look at this gun that wouldn't cock

ClemBert · July 26, 2010, 08:33 PM

The pics still don't show it cocked!!!

I think I see the problem...you got the trigger in backwards....hehehehehe

j/k

Hardy · July 26, 2010, 08:55 PM

um it was capped

Jaws197 · October 22, 2010, 01:48 PM

Hi guys. I'm new to this forum and recently acquired an 1861 navy. Sorry for bringing up an old thread but I was having similiar problems as described in this thread and have discovered the trigger side of the trigger/bolt spring is missing causing no tension on the trigger and the hammer is not catching. Being new to the black powder world I have no idea where to find a replacement spring. Does anyone know where I could order one? Thanks.

Doc Hoy · October 22, 2010, 02:49 PM

Try Dixie Gun Works. You will need to know who manufactured the pistol. It is a good idea to go to the website and hunt up the part you need. On their website it is best to use the pistol manufacturer's name as the search words. As an example; Pietta 1861 Colt.

I just got off the phone with them about ten minutes ago buying 40 bucks worth of screws for Rogers and Spencer and Remington.

Jaws197 · October 22, 2010, 03:29 PM

Doc, just ordered it, thanks for the help.

October 22, 2010, 02:49 PM	#37
Doc Hoy Senior Member Join Date: October 24, 2008 Location: Naples, Fl Posts: 5,440	Jaws, Try Dixie Gun Works. You will need to know who manufactured the pistol. It is a good idea to go to the website and hunt up the part you need. On their website it is best to use the pistol manufacturer's name as the search words. As an example; Pietta 1861 Colt. I just got off the phone with them about ten minutes ago buying 40 bucks worth of screws for Rogers and Spencer and Remington. __________________ Seek truth. Relax. Take a breath.

July 24, 2010, 10:16 PM	#26
denster Senior Member Join Date: April 24, 2010 Location: Ohio Posts: 581	davem. On modern revolvers that use a single tooth hand,say S&W, you would be correct. On the colt percusion revolvers it works differently. The left corner of the hand flat picks up the tooth on the cylinder then as it goes through rotation it goes to the full flat then finally the right corner of the flat that carries it the final couple of degrees. Hand thickness has little to do with it. With other designs that don't have that big arbor to clear and the cylinder ratchet is closer to center the side of the hand carries the tooth the final few degrees of rotation. With that style hand thickness is a critical dimension.

July 25, 2010, 01:23 PM	#28
davem Junior member Join Date: October 4, 2004 Posts: 458	Thanks denster- I never knew that on the percussion mechanism. One other thing, sometimes the hand fits rather loosely in it's slot in the frame. It seems to me that the tighter the fit the better- within reason. One last thing, someone a while back explained it but I forgot, on a Colt type mechanism, if you put the gun on half cock and then rotate the cylinder or lower the hammer or some such thing- that can cause a scoring on the cylinder even though the timing is okay. What is the proper way to handle the situation- say you loaded 5 chambers and wanted the hammer down on an empty/ un-capped nipple. Should you always bring the hammer back to full cock? I'm sure a lot of other folks are also confused so any help appreciated.

July 25, 2010, 01:33 PM	#29
ClemBert Senior Member Join Date: March 2, 2009 Location: Orlando Posts: 936	davem, Probably be best to start a new topic to get the proper answer you seek as you've veered away from the OP's original issue. You are more likely to get the response you want and fresh looks by creating a topic specific to your question.

July 25, 2010, 05:36 PM	#30
denster Senior Member Join Date: April 24, 2010 Location: Ohio Posts: 581	davem With a percussion if you have it on half cock and want to lower it on a nipple then bring it to full cock and do so. If you want it on one of the safety pins then just lower it onto them and when ready to fire bring it to full cock. Where you score the cylinder is with a SAA or a percussion when you lower it from half cock and then rotate the cylinder by hand to bring a chamber in line with the barrel.

July 25, 2010, 05:46 PM	#31
mykeal Senior Member Join Date: October 8, 2006 Location: Northern Michigan Posts: 2,772	When you place a Colt SA action in half cock the bolt is lowered to allow the cylinder to rotate freely; this is the normal operation we are all familiar with. There is no danger of the bolt scoring the cylinder with the hammer in half cock unless the bolt operation has been compromised by broken or improperly installed parts. If the hammer is pulled back from half cock just far enough to release the sear (but not all the way to full cock) and then lowered to rest on a safety notch or pin or on a nipple, the bolt head will be raised back into the position for stopping cylinder rotation. If the cylinder is in a position such that there's no stop notch in place, the bolt head will land on the surface of the cylinder and scratch the surface of the cylinder when it's rotated to place the safety notch or pin or the nipple under the hammer. To prevent that from happening one must either rotate the cylinder to the desired position (safety notch or pin or nipple 'in battery' under the hammer's final position) before the hammer is pulled back to release the sear from half cock, or the hammer must be pulled fully back into the full cock position before allowing it to fall to the down position.

July 25, 2010, 08:42 PM	#32
Hardy Senior Member Join Date: August 6, 2009 Location: South Carolina Posts: 709	Am I talking to Nasa or the BP engineers? Ha, just kiddin'. Um Clembert was trying to get to the two mechanisms that caused all the problems in my gun. I started out with a breakdown chart from Colt and the SEAR spring is now on Uberti listed as "sear and bolt spring" and the screw that fastens it is "bolt spring screw." After ordering all new parts, it was the little screw made in Italy that just didn't thread all the way down. And, it all started when I felt a need to fix something. By God it works great now! Who wants to start the bid?

July 26, 2010, 08:29 PM	#33
Hardy Senior Member Join Date: August 6, 2009 Location: South Carolina Posts: 709	Hey look at this gun that wouldn't cock

July 26, 2010, 08:33 PM	#34
ClemBert Senior Member Join Date: March 2, 2009 Location: Orlando Posts: 936	The pics still don't show it cocked!!! I think I see the problem...you got the trigger in backwards....hehehehehe j/k

July 26, 2010, 08:55 PM	#35
Hardy Senior Member Join Date: August 6, 2009 Location: South Carolina Posts: 709	um it was capped

October 22, 2010, 01:48 PM	#36
Jaws197 Junior Member Join Date: October 22, 2010 Posts: 2	Hi guys. I'm new to this forum and recently acquired an 1861 navy. Sorry for bringing up an old thread but I was having similiar problems as described in this thread and have discovered the trigger side of the trigger/bolt spring is missing causing no tension on the trigger and the hammer is not catching. Being new to the black powder world I have no idea where to find a replacement spring. Does anyone know where I could order one? Thanks.

October 22, 2010, 03:29 PM	#38
Jaws197 Junior Member Join Date: October 22, 2010 Posts: 2	Doc, just ordered it, thanks for the help.