Webley Mk VI Mechanical Issues

MoscowMike · November 26, 2014, 08:16 PM

I have been looking for a Webley Mk VI for awhile and finally found one on Gunbroker that fit my price range, $425 plus shipping. The dealer said it was from an estate sale, had been shaved for .45, locked up tight, good bore, but he hadn't fired it.

It's parkerized, with some dings, but generally looks good. Marked 1916, the serial number is 1953xx.

When I picked it up at the FFL today, I noticed the double action pull was heavy, as expected, with the single action surprisingly light.

I also noticed that you could pull the hammer back completely, and in the last bit of movement it went past one click to another, at which point the hammer dropped on a few ounces of pull. Odd.

I had been wondering about whether it had been shaved enough to work with .45 auto rim cartridges or just those in moon clips, so I loaded it with empty ARs, and it dragged a bit, wouldn't rotate into lockup. That wasn't too surprising, some were shaved just enough for standard ACP cases in the moon clips. But, when I loaded standard .45 ACP empties into a moon clip and tried it, same issue, the cylinder wouldn't rotate smoothly into line with the bore. Not sure if it's a depth of cylinder cut issue or if the mechanism isn't rotating the cylinder with enough force.

The cylinder lockup tightness was reasonable when I first started fiddling with it, but after watching the cylinder both with cases and without, it seemed to hesitate more. Now the empty cylinder has locked up completely. The hammer is in the cocked position and the cylinder is a bit out of line with the bore. I haven't forced anything, just using normal pressure on the trigger and the hammer.

Because it's jammed, I can't really check the hand to see if it's binding and not pushing the cylinder correctly. And there is the odd single action issue.

I have a note out to the dealer and we'll see what he says, but I would prefer to fix it rather than see if he'll take it back.

Any suggestions for things to look for?

- Mike

Dixie Gunsmithing · November 26, 2014, 08:53 PM

There may be something wrong with the cylinder hand, and if extra force was applied to it, from cartridges rubbing in the cylinder, it may have damaged the hands tip, etc. One would about have to take it down, and see what is fouling it up, as this seems to be a timing issue.

These have a "hammer lever" in them similar to a rebound lever, and the front works the hands tension in place of a spring. It could have jumped past the lever, etc. and hung up.

Dixie Gunsmithing · November 26, 2014, 09:25 PM

This may help with the way that works inside.

webley 2 by matneyw, on Flickr

webley 1 by matneyw, on Flickr

Or see:

http://www.americanrifleman.org/Webc..._EX_forweb.jpg

MoscowMike · November 27, 2014, 12:32 AM

Thanks! I wiggled the cylinder and got it loose. The hand moves freely against the spring, but it appears to be a bit worn at the top.
Looks like some gunsmithing is needed. I imagine replacement hands, or pawls are hard to come by.

Dixie Gunsmithing · November 27, 2014, 10:21 AM

No, I think Apex has them, and maybe a few other places.

https://apexgunparts.com/product_inf...roducts_id/397

https://apexgunparts.com/index.php/cPath/28_59

**44 AMP** · November 27, 2014, 11:56 AM

I have a 1917 Mk VI that has been "shaved" but just barely. It will not work with .45AR brass, and it will not work with any full moon clip I have found. They are just too thick.

What it works with is the half moon (3 rnd) clips, and only the thin ones (S&W). Works fine with them. Also works with some 2rnd clips (1/4 moon?) I found, no idea who made them.

Once you get your lockwork issues resolved, get some S&W half moon clips, and see if they work. I expect they will.

Also, (forgive me if you already know this), use .45ACP BRASS, DON"T USE .45ACP AMMO! .45acp ball ammo is essentially a proof load pressure for the Webley. Lots of guns have taken lots of those loads for a long time, but some have not. The Webley looks big and strong but its not, when it comes to pressure. Use .45ACP cases and load to match .455 Webley pressures and you'll be ok.

Good Luck!

MoscowMike · November 27, 2014, 01:17 PM

The moon clips I have are three-rounders I used on a 1917 S&W. It was stout enough to handle full .45 ACP pressures, but I know the Webley is not. Lower pressure handloads, when I get the mechanism ticking over properly.

I looked at the Apex links above, and the pawl is for a Mk IV, not a VI. I believe they are different. If nothing else I will have to see about having the tip built up with TIG welding and then re-shape it.

It will be interesting to find out what shape everything else is in when I get it apart, but today I think I'm going to concentrate on Thanksgiving dinner. Hope you all are too!

Dixie Gunsmithing · November 27, 2014, 01:40 PM

Sorry about that. They have the parts mixed on that page, and I didn't catch the model number. I know Numrich is out of them, so you may need to have a spot of weld put on that, and file it down,

A trick I use, is to trace the hand profile on a piece of paper, before welding it, then use that as a guide to file the part down to.

November 26, 2014, 08:16 PM	#1
MoscowMike Member Join Date: November 14, 2008 Posts: 57	Webley Mk VI Mechanical Issues I have been looking for a Webley Mk VI for awhile and finally found one on Gunbroker that fit my price range, $425 plus shipping. The dealer said it was from an estate sale, had been shaved for .45, locked up tight, good bore, but he hadn't fired it. It's parkerized, with some dings, but generally looks good. Marked 1916, the serial number is 1953xx. When I picked it up at the FFL today, I noticed the double action pull was heavy, as expected, with the single action surprisingly light. I also noticed that you could pull the hammer back completely, and in the last bit of movement it went past one click to another, at which point the hammer dropped on a few ounces of pull. Odd. I had been wondering about whether it had been shaved enough to work with .45 auto rim cartridges or just those in moon clips, so I loaded it with empty ARs, and it dragged a bit, wouldn't rotate into lockup. That wasn't too surprising, some were shaved just enough for standard ACP cases in the moon clips. But, when I loaded standard .45 ACP empties into a moon clip and tried it, same issue, the cylinder wouldn't rotate smoothly into line with the bore. Not sure if it's a depth of cylinder cut issue or if the mechanism isn't rotating the cylinder with enough force. The cylinder lockup tightness was reasonable when I first started fiddling with it, but after watching the cylinder both with cases and without, it seemed to hesitate more. Now the empty cylinder has locked up completely. The hammer is in the cocked position and the cylinder is a bit out of line with the bore. I haven't forced anything, just using normal pressure on the trigger and the hammer. Because it's jammed, I can't really check the hand to see if it's binding and not pushing the cylinder correctly. And there is the odd single action issue. I have a note out to the dealer and we'll see what he says, but I would prefer to fix it rather than see if he'll take it back. Any suggestions for things to look for? - Mike

November 26, 2014, 08:53 PM	#2
Dixie Gunsmithing Moderator Emeritus Join Date: April 27, 2013 Location: Ohio Posts: 1,923	There may be something wrong with the cylinder hand, and if extra force was applied to it, from cartridges rubbing in the cylinder, it may have damaged the hands tip, etc. One would about have to take it down, and see what is fouling it up, as this seems to be a timing issue. These have a "hammer lever" in them similar to a rebound lever, and the front works the hands tension in place of a spring. It could have jumped past the lever, etc. and hung up. Last edited by Dixie Gunsmithing; November 26, 2014 at 10:57 PM.

November 27, 2014, 11:56 AM	#6
44 AMP Staff Join Date: March 11, 2006 Location: Upper US Posts: 28,839	I have a 1917 Mk VI that has been "shaved" but just barely. It will not work with .45AR brass, and it will not work with any full moon clip I have found. They are just too thick. What it works with is the half moon (3 rnd) clips, and only the thin ones (S&W). Works fine with them. Also works with some 2rnd clips (1/4 moon?) I found, no idea who made them. Once you get your lockwork issues resolved, get some S&W half moon clips, and see if they work. I expect they will. Also, (forgive me if you already know this), use .45ACP BRASS, DON"T USE .45ACP AMMO! .45acp ball ammo is essentially a proof load pressure for the Webley. Lots of guns have taken lots of those loads for a long time, but some have not. The Webley looks big and strong but its not, when it comes to pressure. Use .45ACP cases and load to match .455 Webley pressures and you'll be ok. Good Luck! __________________ All else being equal (and it almost never is) bigger bullets tend to work better.

November 26, 2014, 09:25 PM	#3
Dixie Gunsmithing Moderator Emeritus Join Date: April 27, 2013 Location: Ohio Posts: 1,923	This may help with the way that works inside. webley 2 by matneyw, on Flickr webley 1 by matneyw, on Flickr Or see: http://www.americanrifleman.org/Webc..._EX_forweb.jpg

November 27, 2014, 12:32 AM	#4
MoscowMike Member Join Date: November 14, 2008 Posts: 57	Thanks! I wiggled the cylinder and got it loose. The hand moves freely against the spring, but it appears to be a bit worn at the top. Looks like some gunsmithing is needed. I imagine replacement hands, or pawls are hard to come by.

November 27, 2014, 10:21 AM	#5
Dixie Gunsmithing Moderator Emeritus Join Date: April 27, 2013 Location: Ohio Posts: 1,923	No, I think Apex has them, and maybe a few other places. https://apexgunparts.com/product_inf...roducts_id/397 https://apexgunparts.com/index.php/cPath/28_59

November 27, 2014, 01:17 PM	#7
MoscowMike Member Join Date: November 14, 2008 Posts: 57	The moon clips I have are three-rounders I used on a 1917 S&W. It was stout enough to handle full .45 ACP pressures, but I know the Webley is not. Lower pressure handloads, when I get the mechanism ticking over properly. I looked at the Apex links above, and the pawl is for a Mk IV, not a VI. I believe they are different. If nothing else I will have to see about having the tip built up with TIG welding and then re-shape it. It will be interesting to find out what shape everything else is in when I get it apart, but today I think I'm going to concentrate on Thanksgiving dinner. Hope you all are too!

November 27, 2014, 01:40 PM	#8
Dixie Gunsmithing Moderator Emeritus Join Date: April 27, 2013 Location: Ohio Posts: 1,923	Sorry about that. They have the parts mixed on that page, and I didn't catch the model number. I know Numrich is out of them, so you may need to have a spot of weld put on that, and file it down, A trick I use, is to trace the hand profile on a piece of paper, before welding it, then use that as a guide to file the part down to.