I am a cop and could use your handgun expertise.

[wpd8918]

Hello i am looking to get a backup pistol/deep concealment pistol. i am LE and carry a glock 22 on-duty and usually carry my glock 27 off-duty. I am very pleased with both but want something quite a bit smaller to fill the niche formentioned above.

I am considering 4 different pistols: the NAA guardian 32, KelTec P32 and P3AT and the Ruger LCP, although i'll say for the sake of discussion im open to other suggestions.

I am concerned with the pistols:

Reliablity/Dependability
Size/Weight and ease of concealment
Accuracy
Stopping power/Effectivness
Functionality
In hand comfort
and Manageablity of its recoil

I am not concerned with its

Looks
Price
or the waiting period that it will take to recieve it

One other thing i have fired my friends walther ppk in .380 and hate the way it "bites" your hand. I dont know how else to explain it but would like to avoid a pistol that has the same "bite" when firing.

Thank you in advance for your help...

[orionengnr]

If you didn't like the PPK in .380, you're really not going to like the P3AT.

I have not fired the LCP yet, but as it's essentially a carbon copy of the P3AT (okay, two ounces heavier), I can't see where it will be any less unpleasant.

The P-32 is quite pleasant to shoot, but I view the .32 cartridge as "anemic" at best. On second thought, make that "inadequate". JMHO.

And I won't comment on Kel-Tec reliability except to say that:
a) I've owned four of them, and;
b) I have one right now, and as soon as I get ahold of an LCP, the K-T count will go to zero. And will remain there.

[zoomie]

Backup gun to me = J frame with 38+P. Like it was made for the job.

[murphjup]

If you are considering a .32 then you should consider a Seecamp LWS .32...

Take a look....

http://www.seecamp.com/

Also the Seecamp forum...

http://www.seecamp.com/cgi-bin/yabb2/YaBB.pl

They are a bit more pricey then the rest... $350 used to $400-500 New..

They are well made, and very concealable...

But if you want the cheapest they are not...

PM me if I can help you with any other information about them...

[KyJim]

KelTecs sometimes work fine out of the box but some will require a "fluff and buff" job. Ruger LCPs have generally gotten good reviews but there have been reports of a few problems. I've decided to wait a while before getting one to make sure the bugs are eliminated. The NAA Guardian has a good reputation.

You may not be a revolver guy but the SW J-frames would make an excellent back-up. Very reliable and easy to use. If you buy new, I would look at the 638 or the 640 .38 spl. The 638 has a shrouded hammer and the 640 has an internal hammer, both designed to avoid getting tangled in clothing. Both are lightweight. A .38 spl +P will kick some, but you could carry standard pressure .38 spl loads.

[shepherddogs]

I can't believe I'm saying this but look at the Keltec PF9. Very thin, very light, powerful for its size (9mm) and cheap to buy. They have a bad reputation for reliability. Some peoples never jam, some peoples never function. I have a good one and like it a lot for a backup only. I wouldn't consider it my main weapon. A good one is really good and a bad one just plain sucks. If you get one make sure and test it well.

[chilie23]

Judging by your post you are only looking for semi-auto BUG correct? I have experience with the NAA 32 and i've got to say I'm impressed with this litle gun. For the serious work thst you will be doing I would suggest the NAA Guardian in 380, a tad bit larger than the 32 but with a more potent caliber. Althought if price is not a concearn, I would look into a Rorhbaugh R9. A sweet LITTLE piece that shoots 9mm, a large ste up from a 32 or 380. YMMV

[hoytinak]

For a good BUG IMO I don't think you can do any better than the Seecamps. It's small, accurate, easy to control, well built and I've fired about 1000 total rounds (all types of different JHP's) and never once had a malfunction of any kind. My FFL should have one of my LCP's in tomorrow so I can't comment on it till this weekend.

[BanditSRT8]

Since you are looking for DEEP concealment, a j frame is obviously not valid here.

I see two choices for you when you really look at quality first as a deep conceal piece.

LCP and the new Walther PPS. The PPS is extraordinarily slim, but still may be a tad large for you. The LCP is minuscule while maintaining good control, and the trigger is astonishingly nice.

The Seecamp is also nice, but .32 is not as good of a round for you as the .380 is, and Seecamp's .380 is a tad rough when you shoot it compared to the LCP.

Another consideration if you'd prefer 9mm... http://www.rohrbaughfirearms.com/ but they are ungodly expensive for a pocket 9. Quality does appear to be top notch however.

Any of these would work great in a velcro'd body armor/vest holster under your uniform shirt, or as a pocket gun when you are in plainclothes.

[malachi]

Over the last 30 years + I feel like I have carried most everything made as a off duty and/or back up weapon. I keep going back to a j-frame for both.
I do have a lcp ordered and will try it out when it arrives. Odds are I'll go back to the j again. Good luck.

[Aqeous]

According to the specification that you listed:

Reliablity/Dependability
Size/Weight and ease of concealment
Accuracy
Stopping power/Effectivness
Functionality
In hand comfort
and Manageablity of its recoil


It doesn't get any better then this: (observe post 54 by Aqeous)

http://www.thefiringline.com/forums/...=291724&page=3

It comes in 9mm and .40 S&W.

Link To Berreta PX4 Storm Sub compact: http://www.berettausa.com/product/sp...subcompact.cfm

[jpwilly]

Those little lightweight S&W 38 snubbies seem to be the most popular in these parts but for something very small and slim a Kel Tec or the new Ruger look like the best auto especially for the price.

Thanks for your service!

[Playboypenguin]

Another vote here for the Seecamps. Especially the .380 if you can find one. The LCP looks promising but is too new to tell.

If you get the Seecamp, send me the grip and I will engrave a donut on it for you instead of the Punisher logo like I did on mine.

[hoytinak]

If you get the Seecamp, send me the grip and I will engrave a donut on it for you

[Aqeous]

"Stopping power/Effectivness"

Is a HIGHLY debated concept on this forum. The best advise that can be given is that if you are looking into smaller pistol platforms that are easily concealed, (if the barrel length gets down to 3") you might want to think about looking at the Corbon DPX bullets which have an excellent reputation for adequate penetration and expansion out of shorter barrels.



Link: http://www.dakotaammo.net/products/corbon/dpx.htm

[wpd8918]

Ok here is what im getting so far... keltecs are kinda hit or miss so i think ill count them out, The new ruger hasnt been proven yet so i should wait a while and see how it pans out although it could be great even though it looks like the keltecs, old timers like j frames and i may be some young smug 22 year old kid who is still wet behind the ears but when it comes to revolvers i just dont "get it" all i can think of is myself dressed up like its the seventies running around like dirty harry, and finally that the .32acp isnt enough for what i am going to be doing so i should stick to the .380acp at the very least (i just thought that since i already had a .40cal and i wanted something tiny, .32acp would be alright but youre the experts)

but yeah some of you got it right i already own a 27 so that is a great off-duty gun i just want something that is REALLY REALLY SMALL. something for my pocket off-duty and to stick in my vest while on duty.

oh yeah and also i have heard of the seecamp but i heard they are outrageously priced and even if you want one they are impossible to find (i live in the area of toledo, ohio) and Playboypenguin we here prefer to think of them more as "power rings" lol but yeah that logo is really cool even though one of my "not concerned with" catagories was looks

Thank you all so very much for your input it is greatly appreciated and feel free to continue...

[VUPDblue]

When I was 22 and wet behind the ears, I carried a J-frame with +p's. YMMV...

[REELZARUBA]

http://www.rohrbaughfirearms.com/ 9MM same size as the keltec 3AT never had a problem and lots of Houston LE love them

[Dot_mdb]

Really, really small is fine until you have to use it. Revolvers are not old fashioned. The Model 642 J frame revolver is S&W's best selling gun. If you ask around you will probably find cops who carry the small revolvers. The light ones are fine for pocket carry and they conceal surprisingly well. The big advantage of the revolver is that it is likely to work every time and the .38 can throw nice heavy 158gr bullets.

Any of these guns take a lot of practice so be prepared to spend time at the range getting proficient and continuous practice to remain proficient.

Bill

[Deaf Smith]

8918,

Either P3AT or the Ruger LCP would work. Very easy to hide in a pocket or anlke rig. The Smith Centennial airweight .38 revolver is another choice that's not bad.

If you can put up with the bulk, the Kel-Tec P9, in 9mm, is even a better choice.

But, the little P3AT (I have one) is just so easy to strap to an ankle or a pocket holster. I'm sure the Ruger would be the same way.

[Playboypenguin]

The Rohrbaugh that REELZARUBA mentioned is also a very nice and easily concealed firearm.

[freakshow10mm]

Forget the wimpy ass crap. Get a Kahr 9mm or 40 caliber. Single stack, gets the job done. I suggest 40 caliber and use the same as your duty load if it is reliable. Don't get one of those keychain size guns. Those are for chicks. Get a decent CW40. SRP is about a Glock's. Dealer should give you a discount for being LE. I'm in the process of getting my FFL, but if you wanted one, I'd ship one to your dealer for cost plus shipping.

http://www.kahr.com/PA-1_40sw_cw.html

Impact Guns has them for $389.99.
http://www.impactguns.com/store/602686057318.html

[chris in va]

Wow, I'm gonna get flak for this, but...

My P11 has worked fine the past 3-4 years I've had it. Did a mod to lighten the trigger pull a bit. Fluff and buff, nothing really major to report.

Here's the thing. It's still pretty thin, but is a double stack 9mm with 10+1 from the factory, 12+1 with optional mag. It's not so thin that you can't hold it, like the PF9 et al.

Now I'm not gonna lie and say the trigger is great, but honestly it's VERY smooth, just long.

I just put it in my motorcycle jacket pocket and call it good. I really think you should take a look at this little pistol.

[wpd8918]

the real reason i discredit the revolvers is because the guns i listed are about a 1/4 inch thick and it seems the wheel is at least 1-1/2 inches thick

[Dot_mdb]

The cylinder on a J frame 5 shot revolver is 1.3" in diameter. The grip width with the standard old fashioned wooden magna grips is 1.125". The maximum frame width is .7". The fact that the gun is not a uniform thickness tends to breakup the outline and make it easier to conceal than the thickness of the cylinder would indicate.

The revolver has some advantages over the semi-auto. For instance you can stick it in a coat pocket and fire it from within the pocket and it won't jam, especially if it is a Centennial concealed hammer model. The fact that these guns have been selling for years and years means that they are just plain useful. You might also find that you can get a more secure grip faster on a revolver than one of the small autos.

Bill