BRIEF steps of reloading help

[hk33ka1]

On brand new brass you don't have to size it. Some people do. I don't, I just prime, add powder and bullet and shoot.

I would recommend you pick up the Lee Modern Reloading 2nd edition manual and possibly the Lyman 49th edition manual. At least one fo sure. That said the Lee Breech Lock kit includes a basic instruction sheet on how to load but a manual is better.

Lee Factory Sales has the Lee manual online cheapest at $12.48
Lyman runs around $23 at Sinclair International

[browninghunter86]

does one of those two provide more loads or info than the other? Lyman on MidWay for $17

[Lilswede1]

Insert a new unreload case in your gun and see if the bolt closes easily.
If it does the shoulder is OK.
After reloading and firing the round, the ejected case will be "fireformed" to your gun.
They make tools to measure the shoulder length of the fired case -- whatever the "fireformed" dimensions are is the setting you should adust your press to.
Each gun may have a different length.
And wait, there's more and more and more.
Good luck.

[hk33ka1]

Both are good books can't really say which has more loads. I would recommend you buy several manuals for the reloading data to compare, and sometimes one manual doesnt have the info for your bullet or powder but another does. You don't need them all (but it's nice) but more than one is very handy.

Hodgdon Powders site has a very nice database with free loads for all their powders IMR, Hodgdon, Winchester. It is easy to search. Most other powder companies post free data too.

[farmerboy]

As posted I'n #13, don't ever get wild and skip certain steps. Do the all and everytime or accuracy will cease and then you're wondering the problem and what you need to fix it

[browninghunter86]

what tool are you referring to to measure shoulder length of fireformed brass to set my die up with? thanks

[browninghunter86]

saw this video and is discussed in forums on use. Is this a good idea in your opinion?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J1yBC...eature=related

[dmazur]

Here's a page from the Hornady site that shows three tools

1. OAL gauge
2. Bullet comparator
3. Headspace gauge

http://www.hornady.com/assets/files/...ion_gauges.pdf

The first is used for the job that the video is describing - adjusting OAL so the bullet "jump" to the lands is optimum. This technique can make a big difference in accuracy in some rifles, but it has to be done carefully or you can get a huge pressure rise if you jam the bullet into the lands.

The second tool provides a better way to check for uniformity in bullet seating depth than measuring to the bullet tip itself. It measures to the tangent point on the bullet's curve, called the ogive. Bullet base - ogive is more consistent than bullet base - tip, and so is a better measure of how uniform your seating depth is.

The third tool provides a way to measure from cartridge head to the datum point on the shoulder. Different "inserts" allow the tool to use the correct diameter for each caliber...but many calibers use the same insert. This can be used to measure fire formed brass, and then measure brass that is being resized. If you adjust the die slowly, you may be able to avoid overshooting and over-resizing the case. I resize .30-06 around 0.004" smaller than my chamber length for a Garand and around 0.002" smaller for a bolt-action. (If you accidentally over-resize a case to, say 0.010" less than your fireformed chamber length "indicator case", toss it and start with another one.)

There are many variations on these. A Wilson type headspace gauge is kind of like a chamber substitute, but with generous diameters at the body so that only the head and shoulder touch the gauging surfaces. It has steps at each end to show "go/no go" dimensions for headspace (at the head end) and for cartridge length (at the mouth end).

There is also a RCBS Precision Mic, which can be used for measuring cartridge headspace or used with the RCBS dummy bullets to measure length to lands. As these bullets aren't the actual bullets you are loading, you are assuming the ogive location is similar.

You can also use a cleaning rod (or a dowel) and a case with a deliberately split neck to measure OAL to lands. The specialized tools are nicer, but are not essential.

Other than setting up the resizing die correctly, most of these tools are optional. Quite a few reloaders have been reloading with good results for years without them.

[dmazur]

Here is another type of gauge. The Midway site shows basic instructions for its use, which include using it with calipers or a micrometer. It can be used as a simple step gauge, but it is also possible to measure a change in length as well.

http://www.midwayusa.com/product/880...308-winchester

And, this gauge can be used on its other end as a case length gauge, to show whether the case needs to be trimmed. (Successive resizing makes cases "grow" as the brass flows to a new position...and you need to trim it.)

[browninghunter86]

So to set up the full length sizing die you put the die tin and lower the handle to raise the case holder up to touch the bottom of the die. Then when it touches turn it another 1/8-1/4 turn(I believe that is what I have seen and read). Then put case in and complete the action which will also deprime. What is the adjustment on the top of the die? Using the Lee Deluxe Die for 308

[dmazur]

From post #21 -

There is way too much advice that starts with, "With ram up, screw die down until it touches case holder, then go down another 1/4 turn and lock it."

1/4 turn at 14 tpi is approx. 0.018", and the difference between min and max acceptable head to shoulder distance is typically 0.006".

With new brass, the shoulder may already be at minimum or below, in which case you certainly don't want to move it any further.

The fireformed brass is essentially a gauge for your chamber's dimensions. You want to move the shoulder back 0.001" to 0.002" so that it will chamber easily.

If you move it back too much, it will chamber easily and you will eventually have something called a case head separation.

In addition to being dangerous, it will probably require a tool, called a broken case extractor, to get the case out the the chamber.

In order to set up the die correctly, it takes a series of small adjustments, until your measurement of the case shows the shoulder has moved that 0.001" or 0.002". By this I mean you resize and measure, resize and measure, etc. until you have the setting you want. Then you lock the die down to the press (without moving it.)

Suitable tools are the RCBS Precision Mic (standalone tool), the Hornady Headspace Gauge (used with a caliper), or a Wilson type gauge (used with a caliper).

The "adjustment" on the top of the die is the decapper clamp. The Lee instructions say -

The decapper is retained by a collet. Should it be overstressed by an obstruction; it simply slides up without damage. To reset, loosen the decapper clamp and position the decapper flush with clamp end and retighten. Considerable torque may be necessary. A 1/2” and 3/4” wrench are necessary.

As I said, I don't have this die set, but I know if you adjust the decapper so low it hits the inside of the case, it prevents proper resizing...Lee probably has the dimensions set so "flush with the clamp end" also sets the other end correctly.

[browninghunter86]

If I do not have a gage yet should I just go by COAL? I measured some brass that is factory new and I have yet to find two the same case length. Not off by much but off. So if I prime charge and seat bullet to match max COAL wont those shoot different since some bullets will be seated deeper and others not? Or is that not how that works

If anyone could help this question I will be ready to try some loading tom

[dmazur]

If you ask for "BRIEF steps of reloading", sooner or later someone is likely to tell you that that particular thing doesn't exist...

However, a primitive (but reasonably safe) alternative to using a gauge is to insert a fire-formed case in the die, then make very small adjustments to the die, removing the case and trying to chamber it in your rifle as you go. The bolt handle may have some resistance to closing when you start. When it gets easier, stop. You have adjusted the die to create a shoulder setback suitable for your chamber. Do a few to make sure, then lock the die.

By the way, I believe Lee uses some kind of O-ring instead of lock rings with setscrews. I'd suggest getting some Hornady or RCBS lock rings, so you can preserve the die settings when you remove them from the press.

Not knocking Lee, but here's a link to Dillon's instructions for setting up a die.

http://www.dillonhelp.com/manuals/en...s-May-2007.pdf

An excerpt from the above manual -

Sizing/Depriming Die
The sizing/depriming die is a full-length
sizing die, manufactured to minimum tolerances.
We strongly suggest that a headspace
case gage be used to correctly adjust
the size die. Always clean and lube your
rifle cases before attempting to process the
cases (thru the size die).
1. Move the handle down to raise the platform.
2. Screw the sizing/depriming die into station
one of your reloader.
3. When the die contacts the shellplate,
back the die off 1/2 turn.
4. Use one lubed rifle case to test your sizing
and headspace. Readjust the die as
needed to achieve proper headspace.
5. With a case in the die, snug the lock ring.

You'll note that Dillon isn't going to guess how much press flex is involved, so there isn't any "1/8-1/4 turn more" advice. Instead, the procedure deliberately backs the die off so you can "sneak up on" the correct adjustment without overshooting.

The variation in factory brass case length (mostly in the neck) won't affect accuracy appreciably. What is more important is that you make sure none of the cases are too long, or the case mouth can get jammed in the leads and cause a dangerous pressure increase. If you have calipers, you can check case length against SAAMI standards and trim any that happen to be too long. All less than max? Then they're OK.

Resizing moves the shoulder back to the correct location. Case length (not COL) tends to increase as brass flows forward during resizing. Eventually the cases need to be trimmed.

Simply put, COL is not "cartridge headspace" and it's why you have to use a gauge (or the above described improvised technique using your rifle's chamber as a gauge) to set up the resizing die.

[browninghunter86]

is there a way without a specific tool to determine most accurate COAL with the bullet seated? Hornady tech told me 2.750" but cant you fine tune the length to get closer to the lands for better results? I know if you go too far into lands it causes too much pressure and is dangerous and not far enough it will not stabalize entering barrel....Am I understanding that?

THanks

[dmazur]

From post #33 -

You can also use a cleaning rod (or a dowel) and a case with a deliberately split neck to measure OAL to lands.

The case is unloaded (of course) and the idea of the split neck is to create a controlled amount of friction. Enough to retain the bullet, but not enough to jam it into the lands (so you have to tap it out from the muzzle end). Then use a cleaning rod inserted in the muzzle to measure to closed bolt face (before) and inserted dummy round (after) and subtract the two to get COL to the lands. Subtract another 0.010" or so so you aren't actually in the lands.

I've read of another technique where you drill out the primer pocket and, with the bolt removed, use a rod or dowel to push the bullet gently forward until it touches the lands. If the bullet is seated deep to start with, this method may result in fewer bullets stuck in the lands.

Of course, both of these techniques assume you have minimum cartridge headspace, as the bolt face really isn't the head of the case.

Accuracy is determined by trial and error for an individual rifle. AFAIK, there is no magic formula for how to perform any of this for "best", just guidelines based on the experience of others.

The specific tools mentioned in previous posts just make getting the numbers easier. They do not provide an instant answer.

[browninghunter86]

Loaded first 60 rds today.

weighed bullets out and put them in category by .1 and made sure withing each powder charge load the same weight bullet was used. Also once I set up seating die and did my rounds noticed some were off slightly(0.001-0.002") is that a big deal? Believe it is from either the new brass length being slightly off or either the individual bullet leng being off from the SST tip being different....

[Brian Pfleuger]

.001-.002 is actually pretty good. The bullet tip varies by that much usually, although I find most polymer tip bullets are very good, no more than .001 or 2 generally. Slight variances in pressure on the handle when you seat the bullet could affect it too. If you really want to be picky, you need a Hornady (or similar) OAL gage that measured from the ogive (full diameter) of the bullet rather than the tip. But, .001 or 2 isn't going to affect anything.

[browninghunter86]

ok thats good to know will be using for hunting only so really did not want to spend $30 to get a guage for that.i assumed thousandths off was not too bad but wanted to make sure.

what about the weights of the rds within each different charge weight? same thing some are slightly off than others in the same group.... is that the weight of the case? I grabbed a handful of empty brass and the weights were off (some +2 grains)

[dmazur]

1. The brass length has absolutely nothing to do with COL, which is determined by the adjustment of your seating die.

2. Full strokes of the press until it reaches maximum travel are necessary if you want uniformity. You cannot seat bullets by "feel", no matter what someone says. If the length is not correct, you adjust the die, not how hard you press on the handle. However, it is true that if your "stroke" isn't uniform, you can have variation in seating depth even if you run to maximum travel. (Related to sliding friction vs. static friction, etc.)

3. As the previous post (and one of my previous posts) stated, you need a tool that measures to the bullet ogive if you want to avoid the errors associated with the tip of the bullet. These may not be significant, but they can be confusing if you think your seating depth is changing when, in fact, it is not.

4. Cases vary by weight, even with the same headstamp. Higher quality cases (Norma, Lapua) have smaller variation, at a higher cost. This variation makes weighing completed rounds to verify powder charge weight an exercise in futility, especially for pistol cartridges. (Because when reloading pistol cartridges the total variation in bullet and case weight can equal or exceed the powder charge...)

I'm sure a lot of this will make a lot more sense once you've read up on it...

[browninghunter86]

Ok good to know. How much would you say in gr it could be off before noticing big differences in accuracy? Below is not very much off in weight but just curious. All are 2.741"COAL


Loaded rd with same bullet weight and powder charge(36gr Varget) given weights are:
362.8-363.1-363.2-363.1-362.8

(42gr Varget)
368.5-368.7-368.6-368.5-367.7

[CTS]

I am fairly new to reloading as well but, from what I have read, and found out in practice, unless you are weighing and matching each empty case, each primer and each bullet as well as your powder charge, then weighing each loaded round is not much indication of anything. As someone said above, it is an exercise in futiliy.

[browninghunter86]

Yeah. I am also wandering if the other loading manuals loads were 41 start to 44-46 max with a 165 BT type bullet then why does hornady suggest 32.6 start and 44 max? I was wandering if it was necessary to start below 37? according to Speer, Barnes,Nosler, Lyman stated 41-44..... I loaded 36-up to 42. I know not all guns are same but Hornady seems well below starting than the others

[CTS]

I have notice the same thing about Hornady. I have the 8th edition and it seems quite often to be much more conservative than Speer or Hogdons load data.

[Bart B.]

About tumbling ammo you've just loaded for whatever reason you choose.......DON'T. It's like riding in a car without a seat belt properly strapped around your body.

Yes, some people do it without mishap. A few others still have scars from their guns blowing up.

No powder company recommends tumbling live ammo; they all say "Don't do it!" SAAMI doesn't either. Tumbling live rounds changes the surface coating that's on most powders.

From here on out, you're on your own.

[browninghunter86]

does anyone know if you have to have the Hornady Comparotor body to use and measure with the Hornady Lock N Load Bushings? Or could you just use them on your caliper?