Best Rifle for Stopping a Charging Grizzly Bear?? -- Photo - Page 3

dsa1115 · May 19, 2010, 02:37 PM

Don't laugh......this stuff is very effective and a lot of guides carry it.

http://counterassault.com/html/beardeterrent.html

Lavid2002 · May 19, 2010, 02:52 PM

M1A with a 20 round magazine...yes....

williamd · May 19, 2010, 03:21 PM

dsa1115 ...

Quote:

Don't laugh......this stuff is very effective and a lot of guides carry it.

http://counterassault.com/html/beardeterrent.html

Sure looks like it kept that stuffed bear at bay!

I go by the joke that you can recognize Grizzly scat by the little bells and pepper smell!

Alaska444 · May 19, 2010, 03:28 PM

Quote:

My little Marlin .444 with the extra weight and recoil of a 20 ga puts out substantially more muzzle energy than a 12 ga slugs but it carries with it the recoil of a .375 H&H magnum. Getting to be the old man that I am over 50, I don't like any more aches and pains than I already have especially when I can exceed the 12 ga in delivered power with the kick of only a 20 ga.

Quote:

This would be true if you were stuck in the world of 12ga slugs from 50 years ago. Take a look at the Remington Core-Lokt Ultra. 385gr, actual bullet instead of chunk of lead, doing 1900fps. That's 3086 ft/lbs. More importantly, penetration matters in stopping a big dangerous animal and penetration is influenced far more by momentum than by KE. The 12ga slug carries nearly 20% more momentum than does the .444 Marlin (Hornady factory ammo), and the 12ga has a Taylor KO of 56 versus the 39 for the 444.

Dear peetzakilla, thank you for the information on the Remington Core-Lokt which does get you to the 3000 ft/lbs threshold, but at what cost in recoil? That was really the point of what I was talking about. In addition, most slugs do not get you to this threshold as well but at really huge recoil. 12 ga is much better than any ordinary handgun, but for the type of recoil generated, there are many other high powered rifles that will get you Taylor values double of the Remington slug you mentioned.

For myself, I went with the lowest recoil and the highest punch. Getting a Taylor KO over 40 with the Buffalo Bore 335 gr and only hitting me back like my 20 ga or there abouts is a great weopon to have over my shoulder. Are there better bear guns? Of course, but nothing I would want going off on my shoulder. For the type of recoil in your 12 ga, you can literally get an elephant gun with double or triple your 12 ga. I don't like that type of recoil any more.

My first gun that I ever bought at about age 16 if I remember correctly was a single shot 12 ga. I forgot the first principle of recoil in that sucker, weight. I had shot my older brothers 12 ga and it didn't bother me at all, but that little light weight gun really took my shoulder off. It never stopped me from shooting it as a kid, but I ain't no kid any longer. For me today, it is how can I get the level of recoil with the highest knock out power from the other end. For me, my choice is the Marlin .444 with extra weight and some great recoil pads. That is optimal for me, but everyone has different requirements and abilities.

I would be interested in your impression of shooting that 12 ga slug as compared to the .375 H&H if you have ever shot that. The .375 will get you much more than any 12 ga in Taylor KO values and at the same recoil. If I was willing to put up with the type of recoil you are playing with, I would just go with the .375 in the first place. That was the issue I was discussing, recoil vs muzzle energy ratios. In this analysis, the 12 ga will put a bear down, but not as easily as the .375 for the same recoil.

kodiakbeer · May 19, 2010, 03:32 PM

Brushing aside all the bear paranoia, let me point out a couple of things from the standpoint of somebody who lives in the most densely populated grizzly habitat on the planet - 1 per square mile. I've dealt with bears for over 20 years. I've been badly mauled. I see hundreds of them every year, often from very close range. Follow the earlier link to youtube see my pix of grizzlies from as close as 15 yards.

Actual bear attacks (or at least, grizzly attacks), come from extreme close range, almost always from 20 yards or less. They stalk in close or lay in wait and then dash in at 40 mph - not a typo - 40 mph. It's almost always in thick brush which in Alaska, usually means alders.

The last thing you want in that situation is a 24 inch barreled .375/.338 (whatever) with high end optics. Even if you manage to thread that long rifle through the brush and get it leveled, you're still blind because of the optics.

You want a short barreled shotgun or a carbine in 45/70 class (.444) with iron sights - preferably a big glowing fire-dot/aperture arrangement. You want to shoot the bear on the tip of the nose. The brain is behind the nose. If you shoot into the "forehead" of a grizzly, you just wasted your shot because there's no brain behind there.

Slugs or 00 buck? I think slugs are preferable, but I use 00 buck because my shorty double 12 shoots to point of aim with buck, but high with slugs. At the ranges we're talking about (and I've tested it), that 00 is hitting as a solid mass. I don't want to worry about holding low in the 1 or 2 seconds I may have to get a shot off. If I hit him in the face, he's going down while if I miss with a slug, I'm going down. I could buy another shotgun, but nothing is as short and handy as the one I've got.

Handguns? Unless you're Jerry Miculek, don't bother. If you can't draw and hit a softball (a bears brain size) bounced at you from 20 yards away when you aren't expecting it, then a handgun is a poor choice.

Lastly, and again, the bear that you see - the one that growls and chuffs and runs at you ears up, doesn't need to be shot. Give him a chance - stand your ground until he stops, then edge away. If there are two of you, zap him with pepper while the other guy covers with an appropriate firearm.

They're going allow firearms in the National Parks this year, and the last thing we need is a bunch of people peppering the bears with carry guns.

Brian Pfleuger · May 19, 2010, 03:37 PM

Quote:

Dear peetzakilla, thank you for the information on the Remington Core-Lokt which does get you to the 3000 ft/lbs threshold, but at what cost in recoil?

Well...

For an 8.5lb gun, the 12ga would have a recoil impulse of 3.69lb/s vs 3.62 for the 444 and a recoil force of 25.78 ft/lbs vs 24.83 for the 444. In other words, the 444 generates about 97-99% of the recoil of the 12ga.

So, in terms of KO versus recoil, the 12ga wins easily, and the 444 has little to no recoil advantage.

Alaska444 · May 19, 2010, 03:52 PM

Quote:

Well...

For an 8.5lb gun, the 12ga would have a recoil impulse of 3.69lb/s vs 3.62 for the 444 and a recoil force of 25.78 ft/lbs vs 24.83 for the 444. In other words, the 444 generates about 97-99% of the recoil of the 12ga.

So, in terms of KO versus recoil, the 12ga wins easily, and the 444 has little to no recoil advantage.
__________________
It's Peetza Killa, BTW. As in Pizza Killer, not Pete the Killer.

You never shot my modified Marlin .444. Not sure that we are really communicating well here. I don't have a standard .444. It weighs over 9 pounds, and has a Limbsaver on the stock and a Kick Killer cover over that for nearly an inch of shock absorbing rubber on my shoulder. My perception is that it is like shooting my 20 ga. I no longer own any 12 ga to compare it to directly. Once again, I have a medical condition in my left arm that I must take into account to avoid complications from shooting high powered rifles.

My fix was a whole bunch of weight and a whole bunch of rubber on the other end. The result was better than I had hoped for to the point I wouldn't mind shooting a hundred rounds through this little puppy. How many people can say that about their .444? Most people that I have talked to use one word to describe their .444: Its a real thumper. My calculations are that it is around 16-18 ft/lbs of felt recoil but it is unlikely that I will ever measure that out.

(The rifle was 7.5 pounds new and I added 1.5 pounds with melted lead which should give me 20% reduction per Chuck Hawks calculations. Limbsaver and Kick Killer claim 30 -40% felt recoil reduction. If all estimates are true, that would put me down in the 16-18 ft/lbs range. Shooting it feels like a regular 20 ga bird shot. Truly an easy gun to shoot with double the power of a .454 Cassul. I find that quite remarkable. I don't think I would like shooting your 12 ga loaded with your Remington slug very much at all.)

kodiakbeer · May 19, 2010, 04:21 PM

That .444 is a lot more versatile than a slug gun since you can reach out a lot further for hunting. You always have to think of dual-purpose in Alaska - something effective for hunting, that's also a bear stopper.

I hunt with a .350 Rem Mag in a model 7 short action carbine for that reason. Those big .250 grain slugs are overkill on the blacktails I'm usually hunting, but I can still reach out to 200 yards. And it's a good bear stopper - dual purpose. Moose? No problem...

The .350 Rem Mag and the Model 600 carbine was actually designed with bear guides in mind. It's making a comeback of sorts - Remington is again offering it in their Model 673 "Guide Gun". I think it's about the best all-around cartridge for Alaskan hunting.

briandg · May 19, 2010, 04:25 PM

In yellowstone, my father was attacked by a grizzly that he spooked. It's really an open question as to what really happened. He was crossing the river, and spooked the bear on the sand bar that he was going to. The bear charged, and he ran for the water. when he reached the water, he went down, and the bear wrestled with him underwater before going back to cover. His waders and clothes were damaged.

While waiting for backup, a ranger armed with a handgun checked on the bear's location. it crossed the water and charged him as well, and he shot and killed it with what he had, the .357.

There is no absolute certainty as to what that bear was thinking. I've wondered for decades now if it was just bluffing, or out for blood. It doesn't matter, because they would have killed it anyway, after being involved in an attack.

The fact is, they neither one of them did the right thing. Dad snuck up on the trout and surprised the bear. The ranger snuck up on the bear, like he was trying to take a picture of a deer. the bear was trapped, angry, and spooked.

In bush, or tighter cover, there's no way either of them would have survived that attack unhurt, there would have been no escape, nor room to fire those 6 disabling rounds.

Regarding a batch of bird shot, I can't imagine that working. I've patterned bird shot, and there is likely to be good chance of missing the eyes. I've used skeet loads on dragon flies, just for fun, and if I can't pop a 4" dragon fly at 30 feet I'm sure as hell not going to hit the eyes of a charging bear. Being as bears have been known to tear open bee hives, I doubt that a load of #7s will chase them back. Failing to blind it, I'm really not sure what good it will do to fire bird shot at something that is big enough to stomp the crap out of other grizzlies for breeding rights. Even right on skin contact will not give the sort of damaging penetration that you need to stop it's heart before it swallows your head.

Not that I really care too much what a person uses in pursuit of his own safety, that is his choice, but this is the one thing suggested so far that seems to have absolutely no merit at all, and I'd hate to think that someone walks away from here believing that a montana pheasant hunter is safe from grizzly because of his shotgun full of #4 or 6.

kodiakbeer · May 19, 2010, 04:33 PM

You'd have to call that an actual attack, even though it was precipitated by sneaking up on the bear and surprising it. I'd bet a lot that there was a dead deer/elk washed up near there, or that the bear was injured in some way and didn't want to leave that cover.

Brian Pfleuger · May 19, 2010, 04:53 PM

Quote:

You never shot my modified Marlin .444. Not sure that we are really communicating well here. I don't have a standard .444. It weighs over 9 pounds, and has a Limbsaver on the stock and a Kick Killer cover over that for nearly an inch of shock absorbing rubber on my shoulder. My perception is that it is like shooting my 20 ga. I no longer own any 12 ga to compare it to directly. Once again, I have a medical condition in my left arm that I must take into account to avoid complications from shooting high powered rifles.

Alright.... but that's not the same as what you said before.... I can make a 12ga heavy enough and add enough padding that it kicks like a 20ga too.

Point being, to stop a bear charge at point-blank range, the 444 has no advantage over a 12ga. YOUR 444 may have an advantage over MY 12ga, but that's not the point.

In your specific circumstance, with your specific gun, you have an advantage, but it is not a generic advantage for the 444 over a 12ga. Quite the opposite actually.

publius · May 19, 2010, 04:55 PM

Something in the (4) category, .416, .458etc.

briandg · May 19, 2010, 05:39 PM

Kodiak, there really is a long story. it happened in the morning, and we were on the road as soon as he was released from the clinic that afternoon, so we never learned much more.

We were at fisherman's bridge, down river of it a ways, parked in a lot, and he crossed a few hundred yards or so of ground to get to the river. The banks were obviously maneuverable to a guy in chest high waders, and the sandbar had vegetation. It was just past sunrise, maybe an hour or so, and the bear had obviously come in during the night. There was some traffic, the voices were carrying down the river, and he found himself trapped.

Don't know why he was there, maybe you're right about the carrion or kill. It makes sense.

But, as you can tell, it was trapped with it's back to deep water, and signs of people all around it. Dad went blundering right into the things comfort zone, and I'm sure it really wasn't so much surprised as just pushed too far. Dad reported that the thing came out running, and afterwards disappeared back into that loose patch of brush. So many unusual circumstances around it, but the biggest part of it was the fact that it almost certainly felt it had nowhere to go, and surrounded by danger.

If there hadn't been probably a hundred or more people within easy range, they'd have just blockaded it. The recon party came under attack. so, it was put down then. I imagine that the bear crossing the water, climbing the bank, and loping over the grass gave the guy plenty of time.

kodiakbeer · May 19, 2010, 06:11 PM

I see, yeah he probably did feel trapped with all the people around and the water barrier - thought he had a nice place to snooze away the day in that little thicket and then when the sun came up he was trapped. With the noise from the water, he may not have heard your Dad until he was too close. Grizzlies seem to have a "zone" of about 20 yards and if you get inside it, they'll usually attack.
Too bad they shot him, but in a crowded park with a lot of people it's not like they have any choice.

That's pretty much what happened to me - snuck in on a bear bed during the day and paid the price.

moosemike · May 19, 2010, 06:42 PM

Quote:

My little Marlin .444 with the extra weight and recoil of a 20 ga puts out substantially more muzzle energy than a 12 ga slugs but it carries with it the recoil of a .375 H&H magnum.

Your Marlin .444 kicks like a .375 H&H? The .450 Marlin I had didn't even kick like a .375. Maybe you are saying a 12 gauge slug carries the recoil of a .375 though I can't tell.

James R. Burke · May 19, 2010, 07:50 PM

.416 Rem Mag

P99AS9 · May 19, 2010, 07:59 PM

Probably something like this

SouthCali · May 19, 2010, 08:10 PM

Quote:

always stand your ground and never let it have what it wants. If you do, it will only want more.

Quote:

I get the feeling there is something you are not telling us about your bear encounter. Were all friends here, you can talk to us

oh man i laughed my A off

Alaska444 · May 19, 2010, 09:54 PM

Quote:

Quote:
My little Marlin .444 with the extra weight and recoil of a 20 ga puts out substantially more muzzle energy than a 12 ga slugs but it carries with it the recoil of a .375 H&H magnum.

Your Marlin .444 kicks like a .375 H&H? The .450 Marlin I had didn't even kick like a .375. Maybe you are saying a 12 gauge slug carries the recoil of a .375 though I can't tell.
__________________
et cognoscetis veritatem et veritas liberabit vos
Last edited by moosemike; Today at 04:47 PM.

Sorry moosemike for not making it clear. If you look back at my previous posts, I noted some comments by Chuck Hawks who stated the recoil on the 12 ga was like that of the .375 H&H, not my little .444 Marlin which is a pleasure to shoot all day long with just a little bit of modification to get it that way.

davlandrum · May 20, 2010, 02:37 PM

I push a 105 howitzer around with a beehive round loaded up for just such an event....

Of course, pushing that cannon around is slow and loud, so I have never seen a bear

williamd · May 20, 2010, 05:58 PM

As I mentioned in an earlier posting I carried a Remington 660 in 350RM. Aso had a M600. Not fun guns to shoot but short, fast and can load a heavy bullet. None of the larger or variable scopes, thanx. Had aperture (peep) sights on one. Factory open sight on the other. Installed 1.5x but took it off.

DustyBottoms · May 20, 2010, 06:14 PM

Here's another situation in which I think the M-1 Garand would excel.
8 high-powered rounds as fast as I can pull the trigger.
If that doesn't stop a charging grizzly, then I guess it's just my time to die.

TX Hunter · May 20, 2010, 06:38 PM

With that Bear Charging Me, I would like to have in my Hands A Pump Shotgun Loaded with Foster Slugs.

SavageSniper · May 20, 2010, 07:19 PM

Quote:

I push a 105 howitzer around with a beehive round loaded up for just such an event....

Davlandrum do you use a double or triple white bag charge with that?

reloader28 · May 20, 2010, 07:50 PM

Throw the pepper spray away. Bears like their food seasoned same as you. I plan on tasting like $$it. Literally. It will probly be running down my legs.

When I'm fishing I have a 44 mag loaded heavy and when we're camping, there is a short 12 gauge standing close by loaded with 525gr slugs that I cast with a blunt nose. The way I load them, they kick, but there will be a 3/4" hole from nose thru tail on anything you point it at.

If I'm hunting, its just a 30-06.

May 19, 2010, 02:52 PM	#52
Lavid2002 Senior Member Join Date: April 6, 2007 Posts: 2,568	M1A with a 20 round magazine...yes.... __________________ Math>Grammar

May 19, 2010, 04:55 PM	#62
publius Senior Member Join Date: January 25, 2005 Location: Mississippi/Texas Posts: 2,505	Something in the (4) category, .416, .458etc. __________________ "Suppose you were an idiot, and suppose you were a member of Congress, but I repeat myself." Mark Twain

May 20, 2010, 02:37 PM	#70
davlandrum Senior Member Join Date: February 27, 2006 Location: Lane County Oregon Posts: 2,547	I push a 105 howitzer around with a beehive round loaded up for just such an event.... Of course, pushing that cannon around is slow and loud, so I have never seen a bear __________________ U.S Army, Retired Ethics is knowing the difference between what you have a right to do and what is right to do. -Potter Stewart

May 20, 2010, 05:58 PM	#71
williamd Senior Member Join Date: March 13, 2007 Location: SoCal Posts: 801	As I mentioned in an earlier posting I carried a Remington 660 in 350RM. Aso had a M600. Not fun guns to shoot but short, fast and can load a heavy bullet. None of the larger or variable scopes, thanx. Had aperture (peep) sights on one. Factory open sight on the other. Installed 1.5x but took it off. __________________ "Outlaw guns and only outlaws will have guns!" Unfortunately, we may be moving in that direction. NRA Benefactor, Conservative!, VN '64-'65. Never sell a gun or a car ... and retire rich!

May 19, 2010, 02:37 PM	#51
dsa1115 Senior Member Join Date: March 10, 2010 Location: Illinois Posts: 444	Don't laugh......this stuff is very effective and a lot of guides carry it. http://counterassault.com/html/beardeterrent.html

May 19, 2010, 03:32 PM	#55
kodiakbeer Junior member Join Date: April 10, 2010 Location: Kodiak, Alaska Posts: 791	Brushing aside all the bear paranoia, let me point out a couple of things from the standpoint of somebody who lives in the most densely populated grizzly habitat on the planet - 1 per square mile. I've dealt with bears for over 20 years. I've been badly mauled. I see hundreds of them every year, often from very close range. Follow the earlier link to youtube see my pix of grizzlies from as close as 15 yards. Actual bear attacks (or at least, grizzly attacks), come from extreme close range, almost always from 20 yards or less. They stalk in close or lay in wait and then dash in at 40 mph - not a typo - 40 mph. It's almost always in thick brush which in Alaska, usually means alders. The last thing you want in that situation is a 24 inch barreled .375/.338 (whatever) with high end optics. Even if you manage to thread that long rifle through the brush and get it leveled, you're still blind because of the optics. You want a short barreled shotgun or a carbine in 45/70 class (.444) with iron sights - preferably a big glowing fire-dot/aperture arrangement. You want to shoot the bear on the tip of the nose. The brain is behind the nose. If you shoot into the "forehead" of a grizzly, you just wasted your shot because there's no brain behind there. Slugs or 00 buck? I think slugs are preferable, but I use 00 buck because my shorty double 12 shoots to point of aim with buck, but high with slugs. At the ranges we're talking about (and I've tested it), that 00 is hitting as a solid mass. I don't want to worry about holding low in the 1 or 2 seconds I may have to get a shot off. If I hit him in the face, he's going down while if I miss with a slug, I'm going down. I could buy another shotgun, but nothing is as short and handy as the one I've got. Handguns? Unless you're Jerry Miculek, don't bother. If you can't draw and hit a softball (a bears brain size) bounced at you from 20 yards away when you aren't expecting it, then a handgun is a poor choice. Lastly, and again, the bear that you see - the one that growls and chuffs and runs at you ears up, doesn't need to be shot. Give him a chance - stand your ground until he stops, then edge away. If there are two of you, zap him with pepper while the other guy covers with an appropriate firearm. They're going allow firearms in the National Parks this year, and the last thing we need is a bunch of people peppering the bears with carry guns.

May 19, 2010, 04:21 PM	#58
kodiakbeer Junior member Join Date: April 10, 2010 Location: Kodiak, Alaska Posts: 791	That .444 is a lot more versatile than a slug gun since you can reach out a lot further for hunting. You always have to think of dual-purpose in Alaska - something effective for hunting, that's also a bear stopper. I hunt with a .350 Rem Mag in a model 7 short action carbine for that reason. Those big .250 grain slugs are overkill on the blacktails I'm usually hunting, but I can still reach out to 200 yards. And it's a good bear stopper - dual purpose. Moose? No problem... The .350 Rem Mag and the Model 600 carbine was actually designed with bear guides in mind. It's making a comeback of sorts - Remington is again offering it in their Model 673 "Guide Gun". I think it's about the best all-around cartridge for Alaskan hunting.

May 19, 2010, 04:25 PM	#59
briandg Senior Member Join Date: May 4, 2010 Posts: 5,468	In yellowstone, my father was attacked by a grizzly that he spooked. It's really an open question as to what really happened. He was crossing the river, and spooked the bear on the sand bar that he was going to. The bear charged, and he ran for the water. when he reached the water, he went down, and the bear wrestled with him underwater before going back to cover. His waders and clothes were damaged. While waiting for backup, a ranger armed with a handgun checked on the bear's location. it crossed the water and charged him as well, and he shot and killed it with what he had, the .357. There is no absolute certainty as to what that bear was thinking. I've wondered for decades now if it was just bluffing, or out for blood. It doesn't matter, because they would have killed it anyway, after being involved in an attack. The fact is, they neither one of them did the right thing. Dad snuck up on the trout and surprised the bear. The ranger snuck up on the bear, like he was trying to take a picture of a deer. the bear was trapped, angry, and spooked. In bush, or tighter cover, there's no way either of them would have survived that attack unhurt, there would have been no escape, nor room to fire those 6 disabling rounds. Regarding a batch of bird shot, I can't imagine that working. I've patterned bird shot, and there is likely to be good chance of missing the eyes. I've used skeet loads on dragon flies, just for fun, and if I can't pop a 4" dragon fly at 30 feet I'm sure as hell not going to hit the eyes of a charging bear. Being as bears have been known to tear open bee hives, I doubt that a load of #7s will chase them back. Failing to blind it, I'm really not sure what good it will do to fire bird shot at something that is big enough to stomp the crap out of other grizzlies for breeding rights. Even right on skin contact will not give the sort of damaging penetration that you need to stop it's heart before it swallows your head. Not that I really care too much what a person uses in pursuit of his own safety, that is his choice, but this is the one thing suggested so far that seems to have absolutely no merit at all, and I'd hate to think that someone walks away from here believing that a montana pheasant hunter is safe from grizzly because of his shotgun full of #4 or 6.

May 19, 2010, 04:33 PM	#60
kodiakbeer Junior member Join Date: April 10, 2010 Location: Kodiak, Alaska Posts: 791	You'd have to call that an actual attack, even though it was precipitated by sneaking up on the bear and surprising it. I'd bet a lot that there was a dead deer/elk washed up near there, or that the bear was injured in some way and didn't want to leave that cover.

May 19, 2010, 05:39 PM	#63
briandg Senior Member Join Date: May 4, 2010 Posts: 5,468	Kodiak, there really is a long story. it happened in the morning, and we were on the road as soon as he was released from the clinic that afternoon, so we never learned much more. We were at fisherman's bridge, down river of it a ways, parked in a lot, and he crossed a few hundred yards or so of ground to get to the river. The banks were obviously maneuverable to a guy in chest high waders, and the sandbar had vegetation. It was just past sunrise, maybe an hour or so, and the bear had obviously come in during the night. There was some traffic, the voices were carrying down the river, and he found himself trapped. Don't know why he was there, maybe you're right about the carrion or kill. It makes sense. But, as you can tell, it was trapped with it's back to deep water, and signs of people all around it. Dad went blundering right into the things comfort zone, and I'm sure it really wasn't so much surprised as just pushed too far. Dad reported that the thing came out running, and afterwards disappeared back into that loose patch of brush. So many unusual circumstances around it, but the biggest part of it was the fact that it almost certainly felt it had nowhere to go, and surrounded by danger. If there hadn't been probably a hundred or more people within easy range, they'd have just blockaded it. The recon party came under attack. so, it was put down then. I imagine that the bear crossing the water, climbing the bank, and loping over the grass gave the guy plenty of time.

May 19, 2010, 06:11 PM	#64
kodiakbeer Junior member Join Date: April 10, 2010 Location: Kodiak, Alaska Posts: 791	I see, yeah he probably did feel trapped with all the people around and the water barrier - thought he had a nice place to snooze away the day in that little thicket and then when the sun came up he was trapped. With the noise from the water, he may not have heard your Dad until he was too close. Grizzlies seem to have a "zone" of about 20 yards and if you get inside it, they'll usually attack. Too bad they shot him, but in a crowded park with a lot of people it's not like they have any choice. That's pretty much what happened to me - snuck in on a bear bed during the day and paid the price.

May 19, 2010, 07:50 PM	#66
James R. Burke Senior Member Join Date: January 3, 2009 Location: U.P. of Mich/Quinnesec Posts: 1,897	.416 Rem Mag

May 19, 2010, 07:59 PM	#67
P99AS9 Senior Member Join Date: February 12, 2008 Location: New Hampshire Posts: 612	Probably something like this

May 20, 2010, 06:14 PM	#72
DustyBottoms Member Join Date: April 15, 2010 Posts: 65	Here's another situation in which I think the M-1 Garand would excel. 8 high-powered rounds as fast as I can pull the trigger. If that doesn't stop a charging grizzly, then I guess it's just my time to die.

May 20, 2010, 06:38 PM	#73
TX Hunter Senior Member Join Date: February 11, 2010 Location: East Texas USA Posts: 1,805	With that Bear Charging Me, I would like to have in my Hands A Pump Shotgun Loaded with Foster Slugs.

May 20, 2010, 07:50 PM	#75
reloader28 Senior Member Join Date: October 13, 2009 Location: nw wyoming Posts: 1,061	Throw the pepper spray away. Bears like their food seasoned same as you. I plan on tasting like $$it. Literally. It will probly be running down my legs. When I'm fishing I have a 44 mag loaded heavy and when we're camping, there is a short 12 gauge standing close by loaded with 525gr slugs that I cast with a blunt nose. The way I load them, they kick, but there will be a 3/4" hole from nose thru tail on anything you point it at. If I'm hunting, its just a 30-06.