CCW course---what a waste - Page 3

mvpel · March 5, 2005, 09:18 AM

Quote:

Case in point, man was being robbed in his car at an ATM, the robber had a weapon--got the money and began to flee when the man in the car shot at him--missing the robber and hitting(killing) an 8yr old girl in the back seat of a car some distance away. Man's in deep ----. Even at that point when the robber had a weapon, he was fleeing and the man who shot was no longer in danger for his life--he would have been in trouble for just firing his weapon as the man fled, but now his life is over criminally and civil.

This is a very different situation. You must NEVER shoot at a fleeing criminal. Only the police get to do that, and only under very specific circumstances.

You do not have a duty to apprehend a criminal, you only have a right to use deadly force when faced with an imminent, unavoidable, reasonable fear of great bodily harm, death, or forcible felony.

When the robber was driving away, the threat of force was not imminent or unavoidable. The crime victim in this case waited too long to draw his gun.

abelew · March 5, 2005, 06:39 PM

I only posted the disclaimer as part joke, and part hint for the intellectually challenged person, so that they would, if they were smart enough to read the whole post, that I am not a qualified legal professional, and that what I said is only an opinion based on the knowledge I had at the time, so that they would, in fact, do what I said, and READ IT THEMSELVES

(Joke, because this is a legal thread, and it is a "legal disclaimer"

) I know I am a dork, so don't ask.

JimW · March 5, 2005, 07:17 PM

When the robber was driving away, the threat of force was not imminent or unavoidable. The crime victim in this case waited too long to draw his gun.

The victim in this case(from what I read) didn't wait too long to pull his weapon--he never had a chance if being robbed by weapon and then the robber retreating with the money. When could he have drawn?

mvpel · March 6, 2005, 08:58 PM

He could have drawn to "prevent the imminent commission of a forcible felony," namely robbery, and been justified under Florida law.

Phil306 · March 6, 2005, 10:28 PM

Just remember guys and girls, someone who goes to a "CCW" course is an EXPERT when it comes to firearms useage. And as such, can tell you what he/she knows and your expected to follow it.

Blind Tree Frog · March 7, 2005, 12:08 PM

So someone mind explaining to me why "Duty to Retreat" is a bad thing?

mvpel · March 7, 2005, 12:31 PM

While it is incumbent upon everyone to be judicious in the use of defensive force, giving the state the power to hold someone criminally liable for failing to retreat from a violent criminal in what will always be a fluid and fast-moving situation is considered by many to be affront to the right to self-defense.

If you get the bad luck to defend yourself against a violent attack under the jurisdiction of a foaming-at-the-mouth anti-gun prosecutor, then you can bet that he'll second guess your actions six ways from Tuesday in a religious effort to convict you for the so-called "crime" of "failure to retreat."

Anyone can come up with a hypothetical scenario in which retreat was possible.

New Hampshire law addresses this by demanding that the retreat must be able to be accomplished in "complete safety," so that helps rein in some of the more flagrant prosecutorial abuses committed against armed defenders.

XavierBreath · March 7, 2005, 05:43 PM

Remember to that a good DA can indict a ham sandwich.

Even if you are 100% within the law, you still might loose your freedom, your fortune, your good name, and your ability to see the world as you once did.

Knowing the political climate of your area and your DA's opinions is almost as important as knowing the law.

Blind Tree Frog · March 7, 2005, 09:24 PM

Quote:

While it is incumbent upon everyone to be judicious in the use of defensive force, giving the state the power to hold someone criminally liable for failing to retreat from a violent criminal in what will always be a fluid and fast-moving situation is considered by many to be affront to the right to self-defense.

Except that in NC, if you are already under attack, retreat is no longer required, and if his gun is already out, I consider that under attack.

But if he's got the gun on the table and not in his hand and he's talking ****, I'd be hard pressed not to think of a good reason to say why I didn't just walk out the door in court.

This being my understanding of right to retreat

gxi.llc · March 7, 2005, 11:25 PM

Be glad you're not in Georgia. Here you only need to take 47 bucks to the courthouse, fill out some paperwork, go next door to have fingerprints taken, then wait SIX MONTHS for a piece of paper to arrive in the mail, and presto! You're legal to start packing! Luckily, I've already received some good defensive pistol and judgment shooting training, but I'm still responsible for learning all the laws on my own from the oh-so-easy-to-intrepret legal jargon provided by the state government.

March 5, 2005, 06:39 PM	#52
abelew Senior Member Join Date: November 29, 2004 Location: Florida Posts: 778	I only posted the disclaimer as part joke, and part hint for the intellectually challenged person, so that they would, if they were smart enough to read the whole post, that I am not a qualified legal professional, and that what I said is only an opinion based on the knowledge I had at the time, so that they would, in fact, do what I said, and READ IT THEMSELVES (Joke, because this is a legal thread, and it is a "legal disclaimer" ) I know I am a dork, so don't ask. __________________ "Where the choice is between only violence and cowardice, I would advise violence." ~ Mohatma Gandhi

March 6, 2005, 08:58 PM	#54
mvpel Senior Member Join Date: May 18, 2000 Location: Hooksett, NH Posts: 1,847	He could have drawn to "prevent the imminent commission of a forcible felony," namely robbery, and been justified under Florida law. __________________ Not a blacksmith could be found in the whole land of Israel, because the Philistines had said, "Otherwise the Hebrews will make swords or spears!" 1 Samuel 13:19

March 6, 2005, 10:28 PM	#55
Phil306 Member Join Date: May 24, 2004 Location: Dublin, California Posts: 76	Just remember guys and girls, someone who goes to a "CCW" course is an EXPERT when it comes to firearms useage. And as such, can tell you what he/she knows and your expected to follow it. __________________ "You have enemies? Good. That means you've stood up for something, sometime in your life." Sir Winston Churchill

March 7, 2005, 12:31 PM	#57
mvpel Senior Member Join Date: May 18, 2000 Location: Hooksett, NH Posts: 1,847	While it is incumbent upon everyone to be judicious in the use of defensive force, giving the state the power to hold someone criminally liable for failing to retreat from a violent criminal in what will always be a fluid and fast-moving situation is considered by many to be affront to the right to self-defense. If you get the bad luck to defend yourself against a violent attack under the jurisdiction of a foaming-at-the-mouth anti-gun prosecutor, then you can bet that he'll second guess your actions six ways from Tuesday in a religious effort to convict you for the so-called "crime" of "failure to retreat." Anyone can come up with a hypothetical scenario in which retreat was possible. New Hampshire law addresses this by demanding that the retreat must be able to be accomplished in "complete safety," so that helps rein in some of the more flagrant prosecutorial abuses committed against armed defenders. __________________ Not a blacksmith could be found in the whole land of Israel, because the Philistines had said, "Otherwise the Hebrews will make swords or spears!" 1 Samuel 13:19 Last edited by mvpel; March 7, 2005 at 07:00 PM.

March 7, 2005, 05:43 PM	#58
XavierBreath Senior Member Join Date: December 6, 2002 Location: North Louisiana Posts: 2,800	Remember to that a good DA can indict a ham sandwich. Even if you are 100% within the law, you still might loose your freedom, your fortune, your good name, and your ability to see the world as you once did. Knowing the political climate of your area and your DA's opinions is almost as important as knowing the law. __________________ Xavier's Blog

March 5, 2005, 07:17 PM	#53
JimW Junior member Join Date: February 15, 2005 Posts: 75	When the robber was driving away, the threat of force was not imminent or unavoidable. The crime victim in this case waited too long to draw his gun. The victim in this case(from what I read) didn't wait too long to pull his weapon--he never had a chance if being robbed by weapon and then the robber retreating with the money. When could he have drawn?

March 7, 2005, 12:08 PM	#56
Blind Tree Frog Senior Member Join Date: January 4, 2005 Posts: 298	So someone mind explaining to me why "Duty to Retreat" is a bad thing?

March 7, 2005, 11:25 PM	#60
gxi.llc Senior Member Join Date: October 7, 2004 Posts: 132	Be glad you're not in Georgia. Here you only need to take 47 bucks to the courthouse, fill out some paperwork, go next door to have fingerprints taken, then wait SIX MONTHS for a piece of paper to arrive in the mail, and presto! You're legal to start packing! Luckily, I've already received some good defensive pistol and judgment shooting training, but I'm still responsible for learning all the laws on my own from the oh-so-easy-to-intrepret legal jargon provided by the state government.