September 13, 2011, 11:00 PM | #1026 |
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if Obama and the ATF are smart they are going to leave Mr. Howard alone if he has evidence that the ATF told him to do it. Mr. Howard will be entitled to review the ATFs records with regards to this matter if they take it to a civil or criminal court. Just the thing I imagine a few pro gun organizations are waiting for.
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September 13, 2011, 11:01 PM | #1027 |
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KyJim wrote:
Trustworthy or not, they are not that insanely stupid. The last thing they want is for some gung-ho attorneys taking depositions and digging through their records in a civil case which is what would happen if they tried that. It would also be a public relations nightmare. ------------------------------------ What are you willing to bet re the stupidity, also spelled arrogance, of "the feds", who it appears have come to believe that they are untouchable? |
September 14, 2011, 08:04 PM | #1028 | |
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September 14, 2011, 08:45 PM | #1029 | |
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September 14, 2011, 08:59 PM | #1030 |
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What about the current administration hasnt been a nightmare concerning policy, it seems almost like they are tone deaf to public sentiment or opinion on any given issue and tend to have a ear towards more specialized interest regardless of the fallout and consequences.
I dont think any level of public black-eye would prevent them from trying anything that seems to fit the need of the moment or supports a given tone that they seem to feel has to be met. Without debating any of the issues or leaning any direction all I can say is that they seem to be deaf, dumb and blind on how the general public sees anything....
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September 15, 2011, 06:01 AM | #1031 |
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Rule Number 1: Deny all knowledge
Rule Number 2: When caught, see rule number 1.
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September 15, 2011, 06:27 AM | #1032 | |
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Three More Murders Linked to Fast and Furious
The slow-motion train wreck that is Fast & Furious just keeps rolling along...
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I don't know how this hasn't been front-page news on every channel yet.
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September 15, 2011, 10:54 AM | #1033 | |
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September 15, 2011, 11:04 AM | #1034 | |
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The only person fired to date? Pretty much sums things up, wouldn't you say? All of which results in a few, common sense, "reasonable regulations" that in no way infringe on the RKBAs. Or so Uncle Sam tells us. Plato and Aristotle defined a tyrant as, "one who rules without law, looks to his own advantage rather than that of his subjects, and uses extreme and cruel tactics... against his own people as well as others". But then again, those two men did not live in 21st century Washington DC and words don't mean what you think they mean, they only mean what you're told they mean... right?
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September 15, 2011, 11:21 AM | #1035 |
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Re BGutzman's closing comments:
Without debating any of the issues or leaning any direction all I can say is that they seem to be deaf, dumb and blind on how the general public sees anything.... ----------------------------- If one seeks a word to describe the Obama administration, your close includes some that are, I submit, all to appropriate. Having said that, you might also consider "arrogant". Baba Louie wrote: Plato and Aristotle defined a tyrant as, "one who rules without law, looks to his own advantage rather than that of his subjects, and uses extreme and cruel tactics... against his own people as well as others". ----------------------------- Sounds about right to me. Rule #'s 1 and 2, see COWTOWNER's post, it appears, are at work here. Tom Servo, with his Rule # 3 seems to have hit the nail on the head though. |
September 15, 2011, 11:40 AM | #1036 | |
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Earth to Teh Feds: No Law, no matter how stringent, will work if it is not enforced....... and then it will only affect 2 classes of people: Those few lawbreakers you catch, and the Law Abiding. |
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September 15, 2011, 11:48 AM | #1037 |
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Personally, my hope is that this doesn't peak too soon. The more it is drawn out, the worse it will eventually look. Having it come to a head around October 2012 would be best, IMO.
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September 15, 2011, 07:43 PM | #1038 | |
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September 15, 2011, 08:46 PM | #1039 |
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Actually the rules for criminals operating within the government are:
#1--deny everything - which is precisely what everyone in DoJ and the White House has been doing since this story first broke. #2-- admit nothing - calling this a "mistake" or a "botched operation" is exactly that. #3-- make counter accusations - we see this by the newly launched allegations of misconduct against Issa. Look who is making the charge. A bunch of lefto political hacks. The very fact that a scandal this deep and far reaching is ignored by the MSM is evidence of how partisan they are. This current occupant of the White House is their messiah and they installed him. Now they will carry his water. I suspect that Issa's strategy involves timing this to blow full open during the campaign next year. I pray this story destroys Obama's chances at a 2nd term. |
September 15, 2011, 11:51 PM | #1040 |
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2guns closed with:
I suspect that Issa's strategy involves timing this to blow full open during the campaign next year. I pray this story destroys Obama's chances at a 2nd term. ----------------------------- I suspect that the economic bungling of Obama et al, combined with the lack of criminal prosecution, fraud is so actionable I believe, of the criminals of high finance might already have accomplished those ends, but we shall see. |
September 16, 2011, 12:55 AM | #1041 | |
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Even then, this turned into something much bigger than politics when people started dying.
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September 16, 2011, 07:08 AM | #1042 | |
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September 16, 2011, 09:59 AM | #1043 |
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Regardless of if Issa has a "strategy", or what it might possibly be, the rate at which information is uncovered has to this point been largely out of his control.
The BATFE, DOJ and the WHite House have stonewalled this investigation and they have been dragging their feet from the beginning. I am sure there are more revelations to come, but the BATFE, and DOJ has so far been 100% responsible for the timing of it. |
September 16, 2011, 10:14 AM | #1044 | |
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Most American news viewers don't pay attention when civilians die in criminal or terrorist violence outside the borders of the USA, Western Europe, Israel, and English-speaking former British colonies (Canada, Australia, etc). This applies even if a few of the dead are Americans and/or the US government is tangentially involved. The news stories have no staying power. Unfortunately, Al Qaeda took this lesson to heart after Americans largely ignored the 1998 African embassy bombings. But I digress.
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September 17, 2011, 01:37 PM | #1045 | ||
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September 17, 2011, 02:31 PM | #1046 | |
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September 17, 2011, 05:41 PM | #1047 | |
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The media covered Waco extensively, generally from the perspective that a benevolent government was trying to rescue children from dangerous, gun-toting religious wackos. A minority of the media covered Waco as an intolerant government's deadly effort to prevent religious diversity. Most of the media has portrayed Fast and Furious as a well-intentioned, but unfortunately flawed, effort to prove what was generally suspected ... that US gun dealers and gun shows were providing the flood of weapons for the drug cartels to turn Mexico into a killing zone. A minority of the media has covered Fast and Furious as a cynical government's effort to provide support for its political agenda. Pick your perspective and you will either be please or angered by the reporting from the majority of the media, because they certainly have their biases. |
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September 18, 2011, 11:29 AM | #1048 |
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Starting to wander folks - we don't need to do past conspiracy theories or other government actions unless informative to this case (not a rant in general about how they screwed up that incident). Thus, I took out some.
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September 18, 2011, 06:59 PM | #1049 |
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Glenn,
Good point. There is only one conspiracy -- this effort, Fast & Furious, to lend truth to the fiction that firearms are flowing to Mexico from the United States. This has always been a fiction; and this administration wanted "evidence" that their thoroughly debunked claims were true. It backfired; and those conspirators are now stonewalling the Congress of the United States in an effort to cover up their misdeeds. Perhaps it it time for everyone to go back and read POST #1.
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September 18, 2011, 09:56 PM | #1050 |
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The activities involved in Fast and Furious have slowly been revealed. What has not been fully revealed is the motivation for that activity.
Are we really to believe that the whole operation was to buttress some statistics supporting a political agenda that we dislike? Wouldn't it have been much easier to just manipulate the statistics (e.g. getting the Mexicans to scour their warehouses and submit a lot more serial numbers for tracing ... as was actually done)? Or should we believe that ATF was really trying to catch gun smugglers further up the food chain? If so, which agency was ATF supposed to hand off surveillance to when the guns left the country? And how were those smugglers - outside the country - supposed to be apprehended and brought to justice? I suspect a few more dots need to be connected before we really know what was happening and why. |
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