Powder in 5.56

[asmyles]

I am doing a lot of .223 reloading and am trying to work up a "Mill Spec Factory load". I pulled a round apart and it was loaded with a VERY SHORT extruded powder. Shorter that Varget. I was wondering what the shortest extruded powder on the market was for a .223. I am loading 62 Gr FMJ. Any Help would be greatly appreciated.

Smyles

[demigod]

What specific round did you pull apart?

[MtnCreek]

I thought milspec 5.56 used ball powder.

Two small grained extruded powdres for 223 are Benchmark and Imr xbr 8082.

[m&p45acp10+1]

What you are seeing could possibly be Reloader 7. It looks to me like tiny little sticks. It meters very well, and is used in a lot of small bore rifle calibers.

[P-990]

With demigod, what round was it?

Best guess is that it might be something along the lines of H335.

[m&p45acp10+1]

H-335 looks more like tiny balls. Also a mix of black, and shiny metalish looking ones.
Reloader 7 looks like tiny miniatureized mechanical pencil lead pieces. They are pretty uniform in lenghth, and meter very well.

[P-990]

Never seen 335 in person, so I was just taking a guess.

Not to be contrary, but I doubt it's RL-7. Too fast for the application. I have a jug sitting in the cabinet that I used to use in .45-70 and I'm still trying to find a way to use the last dregs of it. It's not suitable for heavy .223 loads and seems to be only OK for .30-30.

At any rate, whatever the OP is looking at won't be a canister-grade powder. But there might be some surplus pull-down available that would be a close candidate.

[m&p45acp10+1]

Funny you say it is not aplicable for .223. I had good results with it using Hornady 68 grain BTHP Match for some test loads in my Savage LRV Model 12. Your experince, and needs may differ from mine. I was just shooting at 100 yards going for accuracy. All loads I tested were well into Sub MOA at 100 yards for 5 shot groups.

[DoubleUp]

Description is more like H-322 but I doubt it is ever used for 5.56 Nato loads.

[P-990]

200-600 yards, NRA Highpower with an AR-15. The odds-on favorites among competitors are RL-15 and Varget (I've used both, in my mind they're practically interchangeable in this application), with a few shooters using AA2520 and H4895. I've used 69, 77 and 80 grain Noslers, many other shooters use the Sierras or the Hornady 75gr BTHPs and A-Maxes.

Back to the OP, what ammo are you trying to duplicate?

[Archie]

...since you've already pulled one round, weight the powder charge and check with a loading manual to see what powders fit.

Not that you should simply substitute the powder charge as you found, but use that powder to work up a suitable load.

I've used this and it works as well as any.

[demigod]

I think WIN Q3131a1 has a short cut extruded powder in it.

[HiBC]

Canister powder,which is the powder we get in cannisters,is made to a particular narrow range of performance,so we,with only reloading manuals,can load a consistent powder.
the manufacturers get a railcar of powder,then pressure and velocity test it,then decide how much powder to put in the loaded ammunition.Next railcar,will be a different charge weight.
Powder that appears identical may or may not be the same powder from the producer,but it may well test outside acceptable performance to sell as Zip Mach MAX gofaster powder in a cannister,as it would exceed acceptable pressures if loaded per the manuals.
Dissecting and trying to guess a factory load is OK if it points you to a published safe load.
If its not in a book,not a good plan.

[medalguy]

I use H335 to duplicate a milspec load. I have also used pulldown WC844 powder which is exactly what Lake City used in their 5.56 ball and tracer ammo. Hi Tech Ammo still has the WC844 at $85 per 8 pound jug. Great stuff.

[sig2009]

WC844 Military Surplus.

[demigod]

Hi Tech Ammo still has the WC844 at $85 per 8 pound jug. Great stuff.

Have you bought some of the Hi Tech powder? Got a quick review of it? Packaging, condition, etc.

[asmyles]

The round is a RORG NATO loaded with a 62 GR FMJ with 23.8 GR's of powder. It appears that the powder may be close to a compressed load. What I'm trying not to do is buy another can of powder that I'm not gonna use up within 3 or 4 years. Wife thinks I have too much as it is........ Thanks for all the posts.

[dlb435]

Boy, this is were you really need a test barrel with pizzo electric calibrated pressure gauge, chronegraph and indoor firing range.

[zippy13]

Greetings MtnCreek and welcome aboard.

I thought milspec 5.56 used ball powder.

There's generic MilSpec and then there's specific MilSec -- IMHO, the term used without a reference is essential meaningless.

Back in my day, the mid 1960s, M16-M16A1 rifles experienced gas tube clogs that were blamed on certain lots of ball powder with excess levels of CaCO3. After this was corrected, tests showed there were fewer malfunctions with ball powder than extruded. The Secretary of Defense then directed the use of only ball powder for M16-M16A1 ammo going to Vietnam.

It should be remembered, against the relatively trouble free enemy Kalashnikovs, US rifle problems were a hot-potato at the time. In those days, the DoD was scrambling to justify their actions on a multitude of issues.

[asmyles]

Thanks for the INFO Zippy13. Do the Ball Powders burn as clean as the IMR. I have sued 4895 3031 and a little BLC(2). Got good results with all but measuring each and every load is a pain on a Dillon 650. I try to keep the charges within 0.1 GR and with the longer extruded it takes a lot of time to a just the load after the initial drop. Ball does meter well but I was under the impression that it was very dirty so I was leaning towards the extruded. Thanks for the information.

[zippy13]

asmyles, I'm the last one to ask -- I looked into this thread because of the topic. I'm a newbie to reloading for the AR and I wanna learn.

Some years ago, the Calif AG saw fit to reclassify my recently purchased pre-ban Colt's Match HBAR as an assault weapon. This has greatly restricted where I can shoot, so the AR has pretty much been a closet queen for some while.

My club just finished a new range, and one of my buddies just got a new CA-legal AR. So, it looks like I'll be finishing off my original case of M193s and getting some .223 dies for my Dillon in the not too distant future.

As far as the power metering issues goes, I've no experience with extruded powders. In 40-years of shot-shell and 20-years of pistol reloading all I've ever used is ball and flake. If I had to choose between good metering and cleanliness, I'd rather shoot accurately and dirty*.

*The best shooting .410-bore Skeet re-loads I've ever used are way on the dirty side. I mentioned it to the guy who gave me the recipe and his answer was, "After a match, do you want the highest score or the cleanest gun?"

[asmyles]

Thanks for the INFO. I will post more when I get the load worked up with powder.

Andrew