Wanna get disgusted on several counts? - Page 2

BillCA · November 5, 2005, 12:15 AM

Good thread here.

Some observations;
1. Most cops - especially big city ones - are not "into" guns as a hobby or as a special interest. In more rural parts of the country this trend reverses.

2. Police training, regs, policies, et cetera, ad nauseum are geared towards intimidating the officer against pulling his sidearm.

3. Historically, police shootings, when viewed as a percentage of hits vs misses show a low hit rate. The numbers are actually worse than they seem because;
a) They often engage moving targets
b) They are often moving themselves, looking for cover.
c) Their adversary is often behind cover - in an auto, residence, door, etc.
d) Many of their shootings occur in low-light conditions
e) Some of their shootings involve multiple targets all trying to kill them.
f) Surprise and close proximity do not for accurate shooting make (sound like Yoda!)
g) Most officers do not practice sufficiently to be expert marksmen with their service weapons. (Myriad reasons).

4. Someone mentioned the phenomena where a gaggle of cops all open fire on the same target. This is not uncommon as they are all keyed up in a tense situation and if someone fires ... There are 2 schools of thought here;
a) In a tense situation (especially dark ones) a shot is fired and other officers are unsure who fired first and assume it was the suspect. They ALL unload on the suspect, thinking it was he who fired the first shot.
b) With training and policy doctrines so tight on when you can shoot, that first shot is tantamount to declaring I have a valid reason to shoot the suspect! -- and if officer #1 has a valid reason the next officer thinks he and his fellow officers are in danger and he should shoot too.

Woe to everyone if an officer simply stumbles and clumsily discharges his firearm in error in such situations. But this form of "panic fire" is common in both the police arena as well as the battlefield.

5. When officers were armed with "six guns" many were taught to fire 2 rounds COM and observe, momentarily, the reaction before continuing to fire. The idea was to be accurate with your fire so that you could engage a 2nd goblin without reloading. Today's hi-cap firearms allow officers to fire 12 shots before "coming up for air".

6. I think Chiefs and administration types should be looking at single-stack semi-autos (7 to 10 rounds) for officers and reorganizing their training to emphasize accurate shooting. Not only will this instill more confidence in each officer, but fewer rounds means fewer potential lawsuits.

7. More emphasis should be placed on "point shooting" (aka hip-shooting) since officers are often called upon to act swiftly in close quarters. Train like you fight and fight like you train.

8. Cities where officers shoot too often, too much and with too many errors is indicative, in my opinion, of officers who are insufficiently trained to deal with the goblins. They fear for their safety because they don't practice hand-to-hand and other tactics just like many officers seldom practice with their sidearms.

How many times have we all heard that a serious gunfight and it's adrenaline rush will trash your ability to shoot? Cops are not immune to that, or fear or even "panic" when caught by surprise. What matters is one's mindset, training and the ability to overcome fear and focus on the task at hand - survival.

November 5, 2005, 12:15 AM	#26
BillCA Senior Member Join Date: November 28, 2004 Location: Silicon Valley, Ca Posts: 7,117	Good thread here. Some observations; 1. Most cops - especially big city ones - are not "into" guns as a hobby or as a special interest. In more rural parts of the country this trend reverses. 2. Police training, regs, policies, et cetera, ad nauseum are geared towards intimidating the officer against pulling his sidearm. 3. Historically, police shootings, when viewed as a percentage of hits vs misses show a low hit rate. The numbers are actually worse than they seem because; a) They often engage moving targets b) They are often moving themselves, looking for cover. c) Their adversary is often behind cover - in an auto, residence, door, etc. d) Many of their shootings occur in low-light conditions e) Some of their shootings involve multiple targets all trying to kill them. f) Surprise and close proximity do not for accurate shooting make (sound like Yoda!) g) Most officers do not practice sufficiently to be expert marksmen with their service weapons. (Myriad reasons). 4. Someone mentioned the phenomena where a gaggle of cops all open fire on the same target. This is not uncommon as they are all keyed up in a tense situation and if someone fires ... There are 2 schools of thought here; a) In a tense situation (especially dark ones) a shot is fired and other officers are unsure who fired first and assume it was the suspect. They ALL unload on the suspect, thinking it was he who fired the first shot. b) With training and policy doctrines so tight on when you can shoot, that first shot is tantamount to declaring I have a valid reason to shoot the suspect! -- and if officer #1 has a valid reason the next officer thinks he and his fellow officers are in danger and he should shoot too. Woe to everyone if an officer simply stumbles and clumsily discharges his firearm in error in such situations. But this form of "panic fire" is common in both the police arena as well as the battlefield. 5. When officers were armed with "six guns" many were taught to fire 2 rounds COM and observe, momentarily, the reaction before continuing to fire. The idea was to be accurate with your fire so that you could engage a 2nd goblin without reloading. Today's hi-cap firearms allow officers to fire 12 shots before "coming up for air". 6. I think Chiefs and administration types should be looking at single-stack semi-autos (7 to 10 rounds) for officers and reorganizing their training to emphasize accurate shooting. Not only will this instill more confidence in each officer, but fewer rounds means fewer potential lawsuits. 7. More emphasis should be placed on "point shooting" (aka hip-shooting) since officers are often called upon to act swiftly in close quarters. Train like you fight and fight like you train. 8. Cities where officers shoot too often, too much and with too many errors is indicative, in my opinion, of officers who are insufficiently trained to deal with the goblins. They fear for their safety because they don't practice hand-to-hand and other tactics just like many officers seldom practice with their sidearms. How many times have we all heard that a serious gunfight and it's adrenaline rush will trash your ability to shoot? Cops are not immune to that, or fear or even "panic" when caught by surprise. What matters is one's mindset, training and the ability to overcome fear and focus on the task at hand - survival. __________________ BillCA in CA (Unfortunately)