.356 or .357 ???????

sw282 · October 10, 2011, 11:52 PM

What size should l use for my 357 magnum revolver. The cylinder wont allow me to push .357 bullets thru it. Should l size them down to .356. l am using a 38-158 RCBS mold w/gc. l want max accuracy. Sized / lubed to .357 w/gc & nra lube

Mod27-2 8 3/8'' unfired

Jimro · October 11, 2011, 03:18 AM

I don't know what model of revolver you have, but if the bullets won't go through the cylinder I would clean the heck out of the pistol. Also I would check to make sure your cast bullets are in fact .357 and if they are I would start load workup with them.

The cylinder might be tight to prevent "bullet creep" from a heavy recoil dislodging bullets.

Jimro

PawPaw · October 11, 2011, 08:00 AM

I'm going to assume that you're talking about cast bullets. Jacketed bullets should be loaded and shot as they come from the box. No sizing is necessary.

Your revolver should have a chamber mouth that is 0.001 larger than your forcing cone and the bullet should be sized .001 larger than the chamber mouth, assuming that you're shooting cast bullets.

What you're looking for is for the bullet to hit the chamber mouth and be properly sized to enter the forcing cone. A revolver with tight chamber mouths will have the bullet improperly sized when it hits the forcing cone and you'll get excessive leading and poor accuracy. With cast bullets, size is everything.

Adamantium · October 11, 2011, 08:49 AM

There might be something else at play here as well. Have you measured your bullets and know they are being sized to .357? Also is your seating die removing all the bell from when it was expanded? A cartridge not chambering that last little bit is often a leftover from an expander die. .357 bullets not chambering because of bullet size seems a bit odd.

FlyFish · October 11, 2011, 09:22 AM

The standard diameter for cast bullets for the .357 (and .38 Special) is actually .358". Determining the optimum diameter for your revolver and sizing as PawPaw describes will coax that last bit of accuracy out of it, but I suspect that very few shooters actually do that.

Chaz88 · October 11, 2011, 09:34 AM

Another problem might be if you used lead bullets in .38 special cases in the .357 Over time a lead ring can buildup in the cylinder and not let the longer .357 cases chamber. Just clean well and it goes away.

Hammerhead · October 11, 2011, 10:18 AM

Have you tried pushing just the bullet into the throat from the muzzle end of the cylinder?
Or is it a finished cartridge that won't chamber?

dahermit · October 11, 2011, 01:43 PM

For God's sake people, read the O.P. slowly before you post. Yes, he is talking about cast bullets, yes he is pushing the bullets, not the cartridges through the chambers.

Also:

Quote:

...The cylinder might be tight to prevent "bullet creep" from a heavy recoil dislodging bullets...

Yeah...if S&W just decided that they would ignore SAMMI specs for a .357 chamber or just want to have the guy blow up his gun...

Original Poster, you may want to visit here: http://castboolits.gunloads.com/, you are more likely to get better advice that what you have been getting here.

Chaz88 · October 11, 2011, 01:49 PM

Quote:

For God's sake people, read the O.P. slowly before you post. Yes, he is talking about cast bullets, yes he is pushing the bullets, not the cartridges through the chambers.

Sorry, I incorrectly related his problem to one I have had. Was not trying to mislead him.

mikld · October 11, 2011, 02:53 PM

I'm not too good at vague directions; "...push through the cylinder throat with little force." How much is little? I prefer to measure the throats either with pin gauges or slugging the throat and using a micrometer. I then size the bullets the same size as the throats measure; .358" throat = .358" bullet. This has worked in all my revolvers (three, 38/357, and three, .44 Magnums)

armsmaster270 · October 12, 2011, 03:59 AM

Are the bullets untreated from the mold or have they been sized after they were cast? That was not mentioned.

Jimro · October 12, 2011, 10:39 AM

For God's Sake Dahermit, didn't you notice that the had to list his revolver as an edit? My reply was before his edit. Seriously man what is your problem?

Quote:

Yeah...if S&W just decided that they would ignore SAMMI specs for a .357 chamber or just want to have the guy blow up his gun...

Jimro

dahermit · October 12, 2011, 12:56 PM

Quote:

For God's Sake Dahermit, didn't you notice that the had to list his revolver as an edit? My reply was before his edit. Seriously man what is your problem?

"My problem", is the complete nonsense some people post here. It has nothing to do with what brand gun he listed...It had to do with your idiotic statement: "...The cylinder might be tight to prevent "bullet creep" from a heavy recoil dislodging bullets... " Bullet creep is controlled by crimp. Please list any gun maker who makes their cylinders "tight" to prevent bullet creep. They make them to SAMMI specifications (unless error or wear of tools involved), and to state otherwise is...well, you get the idea.

Hammerhead · October 12, 2011, 04:01 PM

There are other ways to point out to people that they are mistaken other than wagging your finger at them from your high horse.

DWFan · October 12, 2011, 07:15 PM

I'd say his chambers and throats need a good scrubbing. dahermit is right; there isn't a manufacturer that purposely makes the throats too small in order to prevent bullet creep. By the same token however, if his chambers and throats are SAAMI spec and his bullets are indeed .357", he shouldn't be having this problem.

dahermit · October 12, 2011, 08:32 PM

Quote:

There are other ways to point out to people that they are mistaken other than wagging your finger at them from your high horse.

Mistaken!? What was stated was not innocuous. Wrong, incorrect, ignorant, misinformation is worse than no information at all (that is why, when the posts missed the issue, I provided a link to where he would likely get better information.).

People come here for education. The least they deserve is correct information and not off-the-wall nonsense. They can get that from any drunk at the bar. If you wish to respond to such with warm fuzzies and hugs, that is your business. If ego be bruised, so be it. Hand loading and guns have enough misadventures as it is without perpetuating ignorance.

dahermit · October 12, 2011, 08:53 PM

Quote:

I'd say his chambers and throats need a good scrubbing. dahermit is right; there isn't a manufacturer that purposely makes the throats too small in order to prevent bullet creep. By the same token however, if his chambers and throats are SAAMI spec and his bullets are indeed .357", he shouldn't be having this problem.

Pushing cast bullets of known size is a standard way of checking to see if chambers are reamed to the correct size, and suggested by many cast bullet shooters to pre-determine what size the cast bullets need to be (some cast bullet experts advise sizing the bullets to fit the chambers, not the barrel groove size), before a lot of shooting because as stated, there is a problematic relationship between chamber size and forcing cone/barrel size.

Some years ago, many Ruger Single Actions were being shipped with chambers smaller than the throat of the barrel. The bullets therefore, were "sized down" by the chambers and entered the barrel throat too small, casing sever leading and inaccuracy. Over the years this problem has been posted about over, over, and over. The original poster was likely alluding to that problem when he posted.

Several who answered him obviously did not have the background, history, experience, to recognize that issue. But, boy they sure do want to post something about it... or anything. Goll darn kids!

We old timers do not know everything, but usually when one has experimented, read everything we could about the subject, and studied the subject, since 1963, we know quite a bit and we get short with some kid who, like the old saying, two ears-one mouth, should listen twice as much as they talk (post).

GP100man · October 12, 2011, 09:03 PM

Clean the revolver from all foulin .

Load 6 rounds & go shoot em ! see any lead ??? where ????

I shoot as big a bullet as will chamber reliably !!

That works out to 359 for all my 38/357 revolvers ,I follow published data & usually stop at upper mid levels (1,100-1,250 fps) because my alloys give up & start strippin a bit .

sw282 · October 12, 2011, 10:13 PM

The mystery has been solved about my chambers. They are .3565. This was proved by some Speer and Super Vel jacketed bullets l had on hand. Speer bullet box was marked .357, Super Vels were .3565--- Well the Speers would not go into the cyl. The Super Vels would. So-- using those bullets as go-nogo gages l will say the chambers are .3565. The chambers on this Mod 27-2 are not dirty. The gun is UNFIRED since it left the factory in 1975. Weather permitting that will be changed tomorrow. The load l will be firing in it is. 357 Midway brass. Win st sm pistol primer. AA 2400 pdr.
The bullet is a cast RCBS 38-158 SWC/GC sized to .357-- Bullets were cast from Strait ww. They weigh 163gr sized w/gc & lube.
Will keep you guys posted............

Adamantium · October 12, 2011, 10:54 PM

Once again are you measuring your bullets or just going off what the box says? I have had quality jacketed bullets off as much as .002 before.

sw282 · October 13, 2011, 12:01 AM

Adam----l dug out my mitutoyo 500 6'' caliper. The battery is dead tho. l will get one tomorrow. l have a 1'' mike somewhere. No battery required for it.......

Jimro · October 13, 2011, 04:03 AM

Dahermit, if Ruger is outside of SAAMI specs by .002 for their cylinder throats either it is for a reason or they as you so put it, want the gun to blow up in customers hands.
Why would S&W make sw282's mod27 cylinder .0005 undersize? Either it is SAAMI spec or it isn't as you put it.

I mean, if I am completely wrong here as two why two different manufacturers do this I will say so, but why not pass on your wisdom and experience as to WHY make cylinders undersized? If there is a reason for having the cylinder slightly undersized, what would it be other than to prevent bullet creep (maybe to extend the life of the firearm as cylinder throats enlarge over time, I don't know)? If you chalk it up to sloppy manufacturing I'm ok with that, but since it is well documented that Rugers came with undersized cylinder throats and now sw282's has an undersized throat I really do want to know WHY that is.

Jimro

dahermit · October 13, 2011, 08:22 AM

Jimro,
Pose your questions here:

http://castboolits.gunloads.com/cmps_index.php

They will have the detailed knowledge base and the patience to answer all your questions.
It is fall, I have shooting and casting to do.

sw282 · October 13, 2011, 09:42 AM

Thanks herm----l did

Jimro · October 13, 2011, 10:40 AM

dahermit,

Quote:

Jimro,
Pose your questions here:

http://castboolits.gunloads.com/cmps_index.php

They will have the detailed knowledge base and the patience to answer all your questions.
It is fall, I have shooting and casting to do.

Wow, for someone who has the time and patient to write two blistering comments you sure have a fancy way of saying "I Don't Know."

Seriously, if you have time to post about how another forum has the knowledge that you claim to have, you have the time to explain why revolver manufacturers put out cylinder throats smaller than bullet diameter if not to combat recoil induced bullet creep.

I don't mind being corrected if I am wrong, but you either lack the knowledge you claim to have or lack manners.

Jimro

October 10, 2011, 11:52 PM	#1
sw282 Member Join Date: July 19, 2009 Posts: 88	.356 or .357 ??????? What size should l use for my 357 magnum revolver. The cylinder wont allow me to push .357 bullets thru it. Should l size them down to .356. l am using a 38-158 RCBS mold w/gc. l want max accuracy. Sized / lubed to .357 w/gc & nra lube Mod27-2 8 3/8'' unfired Last edited by sw282; October 12, 2011 at 07:35 AM.

October 11, 2011, 03:18 AM	#2
Jimro Senior Member Join Date: October 18, 2006 Posts: 7,097	I don't know what model of revolver you have, but if the bullets won't go through the cylinder I would clean the heck out of the pistol. Also I would check to make sure your cast bullets are in fact .357 and if they are I would start load workup with them. The cylinder might be tight to prevent "bullet creep" from a heavy recoil dislodging bullets. Jimro __________________ Machine guns are awesome until you have to carry one.

October 11, 2011, 08:00 AM	#3
PawPaw Senior Member Join Date: December 24, 2010 Location: Central Louisiana Posts: 3,137	I'm going to assume that you're talking about cast bullets. Jacketed bullets should be loaded and shot as they come from the box. No sizing is necessary. Your revolver should have a chamber mouth that is 0.001 larger than your forcing cone and the bullet should be sized .001 larger than the chamber mouth, assuming that you're shooting cast bullets. What you're looking for is for the bullet to hit the chamber mouth and be properly sized to enter the forcing cone. A revolver with tight chamber mouths will have the bullet improperly sized when it hits the forcing cone and you'll get excessive leading and poor accuracy. With cast bullets, size is everything. __________________ Dennis Dezendorf http://pawpawshouse.blogspot.com

October 11, 2011, 09:34 AM	#6
Chaz88 Senior Member Join Date: January 4, 2010 Posts: 1,243	Another problem might be if you used lead bullets in .38 special cases in the .357 Over time a lead ring can buildup in the cylinder and not let the longer .357 cases chamber. Just clean well and it goes away. __________________ Seams like once we the people give what, at the time, seams like a reasonable inch and "they" take the unreasonable mile we can only get that mile back one inch at a time. No spelun and grammar is not my specialty. So please don't hurt my sensitive little feelings by teasing me about it.

October 11, 2011, 02:53 PM	#10
mikld Senior Member Join Date: February 7, 2009 Location: Southern Oregon! Posts: 2,891	I'm not too good at vague directions; "...push through the cylinder throat with little force." How much is little? I prefer to measure the throats either with pin gauges or slugging the throat and using a micrometer. I then size the bullets the same size as the throats measure; .358" throat = .358" bullet. This has worked in all my revolvers (three, 38/357, and three, .44 Magnums) __________________ My Anchor is holding fast! I've learned how to stand on my own two knees...

October 11, 2011, 08:49 AM	#4
Adamantium Senior Member Join Date: June 6, 1999 Location: El Paso, TX Posts: 1,021	There might be something else at play here as well. Have you measured your bullets and know they are being sized to .357? Also is your seating die removing all the bell from when it was expanded? A cartridge not chambering that last little bit is often a leftover from an expander die. .357 bullets not chambering because of bullet size seems a bit odd.

October 11, 2011, 09:22 AM	#5
FlyFish Senior Member Join Date: January 20, 2009 Location: Overlooking the Baker River Valley Posts: 1,723	The standard diameter for cast bullets for the .357 (and .38 Special) is actually .358". Determining the optimum diameter for your revolver and sizing as PawPaw describes will coax that last bit of accuracy out of it, but I suspect that very few shooters actually do that.

October 11, 2011, 10:18 AM	#7
Hammerhead Senior Member Join Date: May 31, 2004 Location: Minnesota Posts: 2,432	Have you tried pushing just the bullet into the throat from the muzzle end of the cylinder? Or is it a finished cartridge that won't chamber?

October 12, 2011, 03:59 AM	#11
armsmaster270 Senior Member Join Date: November 25, 2008 Location: California Posts: 1,951	Are the bullets untreated from the mold or have they been sized after they were cast? That was not mentioned. __________________ http://www.armsmaster.net-a.googlepages.com http://s239.photobucket.com/albums/f...aster270/Guns/ Retired LE, M.P., Sr. M.P. Investigator F.B.I. Trained Rangemaster/Firearms Instructor & Armorer, Presently Forensic Document Examiner for D.H.S.

October 12, 2011, 04:01 PM	#14
Hammerhead Senior Member Join Date: May 31, 2004 Location: Minnesota Posts: 2,432	There are other ways to point out to people that they are mistaken other than wagging your finger at them from your high horse.

October 12, 2011, 07:15 PM	#15
DWFan Senior Member Join Date: April 25, 2008 Posts: 305	I'd say his chambers and throats need a good scrubbing. dahermit is right; there isn't a manufacturer that purposely makes the throats too small in order to prevent bullet creep. By the same token however, if his chambers and throats are SAAMI spec and his bullets are indeed .357", he shouldn't be having this problem.

October 12, 2011, 09:03 PM	#18
GP100man Senior Member Join Date: August 1, 2007 Location: Tabor City , NC. Posts: 1,969	Clean the revolver from all foulin . Load 6 rounds & go shoot em ! see any lead ??? where ???? I shoot as big a bullet as will chamber reliably !! That works out to 359 for all my 38/357 revolvers ,I follow published data & usually stop at upper mid levels (1,100-1,250 fps) because my alloys give up & start strippin a bit . __________________ GP100man

October 12, 2011, 10:13 PM	#19
sw282 Member Join Date: July 19, 2009 Posts: 88	The mystery has been solved about my chambers. They are .3565. This was proved by some Speer and Super Vel jacketed bullets l had on hand. Speer bullet box was marked .357, Super Vels were .3565--- Well the Speers would not go into the cyl. The Super Vels would. So-- using those bullets as go-nogo gages l will say the chambers are .3565. The chambers on this Mod 27-2 are not dirty. The gun is UNFIRED since it left the factory in 1975. Weather permitting that will be changed tomorrow. The load l will be firing in it is. 357 Midway brass. Win st sm pistol primer. AA 2400 pdr. The bullet is a cast RCBS 38-158 SWC/GC sized to .357-- Bullets were cast from Strait ww. They weigh 163gr sized w/gc & lube. Will keep you guys posted............

October 12, 2011, 10:54 PM	#20
Adamantium Senior Member Join Date: June 6, 1999 Location: El Paso, TX Posts: 1,021	Once again are you measuring your bullets or just going off what the box says? I have had quality jacketed bullets off as much as .002 before.

October 13, 2011, 12:01 AM	#21
sw282 Member Join Date: July 19, 2009 Posts: 88	Adam----l dug out my mitutoyo 500 6'' caliper. The battery is dead tho. l will get one tomorrow. l have a 1'' mike somewhere. No battery required for it.......

October 13, 2011, 04:03 AM	#22
Jimro Senior Member Join Date: October 18, 2006 Posts: 7,097	Dahermit, if Ruger is outside of SAAMI specs by .002 for their cylinder throats either it is for a reason or they as you so put it, want the gun to blow up in customers hands. Why would S&W make sw282's mod27 cylinder .0005 undersize? Either it is SAAMI spec or it isn't as you put it. I mean, if I am completely wrong here as two why two different manufacturers do this I will say so, but why not pass on your wisdom and experience as to WHY make cylinders undersized? If there is a reason for having the cylinder slightly undersized, what would it be other than to prevent bullet creep (maybe to extend the life of the firearm as cylinder throats enlarge over time, I don't know)? If you chalk it up to sloppy manufacturing I'm ok with that, but since it is well documented that Rugers came with undersized cylinder throats and now sw282's has an undersized throat I really do want to know WHY that is. Jimro __________________ Machine guns are awesome until you have to carry one.

October 13, 2011, 08:22 AM	#23
dahermit Senior Member Join Date: October 28, 2006 Location: South Central Michigan...near Posts: 6,501	Jimro, Pose your questions here: http://castboolits.gunloads.com/cmps_index.php They will have the detailed knowledge base and the patience to answer all your questions. It is fall, I have shooting and casting to do.

October 13, 2011, 09:42 AM	#24
sw282 Member Join Date: July 19, 2009 Posts: 88	Thanks herm----l did

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