Browning A5 ?

Recoiljunkie44 · August 11, 2009, 01:28 PM

I was just wondering if anyone has a website where you can figure out about your A5? I would like to know the date of production and pricing of the A5 by grade! Is it a grade II if it has a gold trigger! I think its a 60's or early 70's model but not 100% on the year.

thank you
Recoil Junkie44

dogtown tom · August 11, 2009, 01:41 PM

Date your firearm

http://www.browning.com/customerserv...tail.asp?id=13

About the only way to see pricing from "back in the day" would be old catalogs.

Recoiljunkie44 · August 11, 2009, 03:35 PM

Thanks a bunch mine is a 1971 light weight model! That was easier than i thought! Its definitly in prestine condition one to pass on to my grandchildren and theres and so on

LanceOregon · August 11, 2009, 04:28 PM

If it is 1971 production, then it should still be a gun made by FN in Belgium, and thus more valuable than the later A5's made in Japan.

John Browning considered this shotgun his greatest achievement. In fact, it was his creation of the A5 that lead to him ending his long time relationship with Winchester, and go to Belgium to meet with executives at FN.

Although he did take the A5 design to Remington before going to FN. But as he was in the lobby waiting to meet with the President of Remington, the President suffered a heart attack, and died before he could meet with Browning.

Frustrated, Browning then got on a boat for Europe to show the A5 to FN. Later, Remington licensed the right from FN to make and sell the A5 in North America only, and thus the Remington Model 11 was born.

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impalacustom · August 13, 2009, 01:44 AM

Lance, that's not quite right. The Winchester guy that Browning always dealt with died and he was dealing with a new guy who jerked him around and he got tired of it. He then went to FN and had them built under his patent and he also went to Remington and had them built under the same patent. FN never sold anything to Remington as Browning still owned the patent and didn't sell it as he did with everything else before hand. That is what started many years with Remington building guns on Browning patents.

Some of the Japan made A5's are worth more than the Belguim made ones, for example my Magnum 20 is worth more than a Belguim made one.

dogtown tom · August 13, 2009, 09:04 AM

Quote:

impalacustom: Lance, that's not quite right.

According to my JMB book and this Wiki entry:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Browning_Auto-5

Quote:

History
John Browning presented his design (which he called his best achievement[3]) to Winchester, where he had sold most of his previous designs. When Winchester refused his terms, Browning went to Remington. Tragically, the president of Remington died of a heart attack as Browning waited to offer them the gun. This forced Browning to look overseas to produce the shotgun.

It was produced by FN (a company that had already produced Browning-designed pistols) starting in 1902. Remington would later license-produce it as the Remington Model 11. (It was also license-produced by Savage and Franchi.[3]) The Model 11 was the first autoloading shotgun made in the USA. Production in Belgium continued until the start of World War II, when Browning-marked examples were produced by Remington Arms in the United States[4].

Unlike the Remington Model 11, the Remington-produced Browning shotguns had magazine cutoffs. Some 850,000 Remington Model 11 shotguns were produced before production ended in 1947. In 1952, production returned to FN, where it continued to be produced until the end. However, the majority of production moved to Japan in 1975. Finally, in 1998, manufacture of A-5s ceased except for a few commemorative models created at FN in 1999. By that time, it was well-established as the second-best-selling autoloading shotgun in U.S. history, after the Remington 1100.[3]

JMB's disagreement with Winchester had to do with licensing- he wanted to retain the rights to the design, Winchester wanted to buy them outright. Apparently FN was happy to let JMB license the production to them. If you read the history of JMB, you'll see his skill in marketing and sales. He would license FN for production of firearms in Europe, and license virtually the same design with Remington for sales in North America.

LanceOregon · September 26, 2009, 07:06 AM

Quote:

Lance, that's not quite right. The Winchester guy that Browning always dealt with died and he was dealing with a new guy who jerked him around and he got tired of it. He then went to FN and had them built under his patent and he also went to Remington and had them built under the same patent. FN never sold anything to Remington as Browning still owned the patent and didn't sell it as he did with everything else before hand. That is what started many years with Remington building guns on Browning patents.

Some of the Japan made A5's are worth more than the Belguim made ones, for example my Magnum 20 is worth more than a Belguim made one.

No, I would say that your comments here are clearly well off-base. Browning definitely wanted to get royalties for the Auto-5 He considered it his greatest invention, and deemed that he deserved more than just a flat payment for such a revolutionary gun.

I should not have used the word "sold" regarding FN and Remington. Browning had licensed the Auto 5 to FN, and they had world-wide rights to the gun. However, the US Government had placed such high tariffs on imported guns, that this badly affected the price of the shotgun in the USA. To get around this, Browning re-negotiated his agreement with FN, and got them to give up rights to sell the gun in the USA, so that Browning could then license the shotgun to Remington. The Remington 11 could only be sold in the USA, and could not be exported to any other country.

As far as any Japanese-made Browning Auto 5 being worth more than a Belgium made gun, with the conditions of the guns being the same, I don't buy that whatsoever. It certainly does not match any re-sale prices that I have ever seen posted anywhere for Browning Auto 5 shotguns.

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shortwave · October 2, 2009, 06:29 PM

I would agree with you Lance as re-sale prices I`ve seen of the Belgiums are higher than that of the Japs. IMO the quality is also.

krimmie · October 3, 2009, 06:45 AM

The Japanese Miroku's are rated for steel, some have invector choke tubes installed, making them more versatile in the field...especially for waterfowlers. I love both variants!

LanceOregon · October 3, 2009, 02:54 PM

Actually, the quality of the Miroku shotguns are indeed outstanding.

I can compare both, as my first shotgun was a FN Belgium made A5 that I shot growing up as a teenager. Sadly, while I was away at college, our home was broken into, and my Dad lost both of our A5's, never to be seen again.

My Dad had good insurance, so he replaced my gun. But the new gun was a Miroku made A5. No "Made in Belgium" on it, like my old one. My Miroku has been super reliable, and has never failed to function once, even with the lightest target ammo.

I later bought a new barrel for it with the invector choke system, adding to the gun's versatility. My Dad had bought the gun shortly after production had been moved to Japan, and those early Japanese guns still had fixed chokes on their barrels.

I am still confident that people are willing to pay more to get the "Made in Belgium" logo on the gun. But the Japanese guns are clearly high quality firearms. If a person can find one in good condition with an Invector barrel, it would be a nice gun to add to any collection.

-

gyvel · October 4, 2009, 04:17 AM

One point: Did Savage make the A-5 under license, or had the patents long expired by that time?

There was also one other manufacturer of an A-5 lookalike and that was Daiwa.

LanceOregon · October 5, 2009, 07:50 AM

Quote:

One point: Did Savage make the A-5 under license, or had the patents long expired by that time?

I honestly don't know. But I know that the Savage Model 775 basically functioned just like an Auto-5 So it is pretty much the same gun. It was produced in the 1950's, and up until the mid '60's

The only long recoil semiauto shotgun like the Auto-5 that is still being produced today is the Franchi Model 48 AL.

However, it is no longer being made in 12 gauge. It is only available in either 20 or 28 gauge.

It is one nice lightweight shotgun.

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August 11, 2009, 01:28 PM	#1
Recoiljunkie44 Member Join Date: August 8, 2009 Location: Hudson ks Posts: 96	Browning A5 ? I was just wondering if anyone has a website where you can figure out about your A5? I would like to know the date of production and pricing of the A5 by grade! Is it a grade II if it has a gold trigger! I think its a 60's or early 70's model but not 100% on the year. thank you Recoil Junkie44 __________________ Father Janovich: " Why didn't you call the police" Walt: " well you know,I prayed for them to come but no one answered"

August 11, 2009, 01:41 PM	#2
dogtown tom Senior Member Join Date: January 23, 2006 Location: Plano, Texas Posts: 3,073	Date your firearm http://www.browning.com/customerserv...tail.asp?id=13 About the only way to see pricing from "back in the day" would be old catalogs. __________________ Need a FFL in Dallas/Plano/Allen/Frisco/McKinney ? Just EMAIL me. $20 transfers ($10 for CHL, active military,police,fire or schoolteachers) Plano, Texas...........the Gun Nut Capitol of Gun Culture, USA https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pELwCqz2JfE

August 11, 2009, 03:35 PM	#3
Recoiljunkie44 Member Join Date: August 8, 2009 Location: Hudson ks Posts: 96	Thanks a bunch mine is a 1971 light weight model! That was easier than i thought! Its definitly in prestine condition one to pass on to my grandchildren and theres and so on __________________ Father Janovich: " Why didn't you call the police" Walt: " well you know,I prayed for them to come but no one answered"

August 11, 2009, 04:28 PM	#4
LanceOregon Junior member Join Date: May 10, 2008 Location: Oregon Posts: 2,774	If it is 1971 production, then it should still be a gun made by FN in Belgium, and thus more valuable than the later A5's made in Japan. John Browning considered this shotgun his greatest achievement. In fact, it was his creation of the A5 that lead to him ending his long time relationship with Winchester, and go to Belgium to meet with executives at FN. Although he did take the A5 design to Remington before going to FN. But as he was in the lobby waiting to meet with the President of Remington, the President suffered a heart attack, and died before he could meet with Browning. Frustrated, Browning then got on a boat for Europe to show the A5 to FN. Later, Remington licensed the right from FN to make and sell the A5 in North America only, and thus the Remington Model 11 was born. --

August 13, 2009, 01:44 AM	#5
impalacustom Senior Member Join Date: January 26, 2009 Posts: 492	Lance, that's not quite right. The Winchester guy that Browning always dealt with died and he was dealing with a new guy who jerked him around and he got tired of it. He then went to FN and had them built under his patent and he also went to Remington and had them built under the same patent. FN never sold anything to Remington as Browning still owned the patent and didn't sell it as he did with everything else before hand. That is what started many years with Remington building guns on Browning patents. Some of the Japan made A5's are worth more than the Belguim made ones, for example my Magnum 20 is worth more than a Belguim made one.

October 2, 2009, 06:29 PM	#8
shortwave Senior Member Join Date: December 17, 2007 Location: SOUTHEAST, OHIO Posts: 5,970	I would agree with you Lance as re-sale prices I`ve seen of the Belgiums are higher than that of the Japs. IMO the quality is also.

October 3, 2009, 06:45 AM	#9
krimmie Senior Member Join Date: February 11, 2007 Location: S. Florida Posts: 280	The Japanese Miroku's are rated for steel, some have invector choke tubes installed, making them more versatile in the field...especially for waterfowlers. I love both variants!

October 3, 2009, 02:54 PM	#10
LanceOregon Junior member Join Date: May 10, 2008 Location: Oregon Posts: 2,774	Actually, the quality of the Miroku shotguns are indeed outstanding. I can compare both, as my first shotgun was a FN Belgium made A5 that I shot growing up as a teenager. Sadly, while I was away at college, our home was broken into, and my Dad lost both of our A5's, never to be seen again. My Dad had good insurance, so he replaced my gun. But the new gun was a Miroku made A5. No "Made in Belgium" on it, like my old one. My Miroku has been super reliable, and has never failed to function once, even with the lightest target ammo. I later bought a new barrel for it with the invector choke system, adding to the gun's versatility. My Dad had bought the gun shortly after production had been moved to Japan, and those early Japanese guns still had fixed chokes on their barrels. I am still confident that people are willing to pay more to get the "Made in Belgium" logo on the gun. But the Japanese guns are clearly high quality firearms. If a person can find one in good condition with an Invector barrel, it would be a nice gun to add to any collection. -

October 4, 2009, 04:17 AM	#11
gyvel Senior Member Join Date: August 30, 2009 Location: Northern AZ Posts: 7,172	One point: Did Savage make the A-5 under license, or had the patents long expired by that time? There was also one other manufacturer of an A-5 lookalike and that was Daiwa.