Will We Be a Protected Class? - Page 2

cerberus65 · February 19, 2011, 09:00 AM

I think is how it would have gone down with me:

Interviewer: "Mr. K, do you own a handgun?
Me: Laughing, "what does that have to do with anything?"

BGutzman · February 19, 2011, 10:14 AM

I would (If I had enough coffee) gone with "Why yes, do you have a problem with the constitution and Supreme Court Rulings?"

jgcoastie · February 19, 2011, 10:21 AM

Thankfully, my chosen career tends to encourage gun ownership... But, if the question were asked of me...

- Mr. JG, do you own any firearms?
Mr./Mrs./Ms. Interviewer, do you read newspapers, magazines, or books?

- I'm not sure how that's relevant to the question I just asked you.
And I'm not sure that you asking me about if or how I exercise my Constitutionaly-guarenteed Rights is relevant to this interview.

- Please just answer the question Mr. JG.
Would you like to know what (if any) religious organizations I am affiliated with as well? Because if you want to know if or how I exercise one right, you'll probably want to know about the rest of them, correct?

- I think we're done here.
You bet your ass we are.

EDIT: The only job interview I can think of where that would be an appropriate question is if you're applying for a job at a gun shop, shooting range, etc... And that would be to gauge your experiences and knowledge of particular types of firearms. But the odds of a non-gun owner applying at one of those places is slim to none, so it would likely just be a point of conversation and not officially part of the interview...

TXAZ · February 19, 2011, 10:32 AM

"Well Mr. Dingleberry, if that were a requirement for the job and you could recommend a gun shop and a range I could learn on, I guess I could save up and go buy one."
(with appropriate respect to Bill Murray in "Stripes)

jaysonr · February 19, 2011, 05:32 PM

"Why, are the schools in the district dangerous enough that you recommend I get one?"

aarondhgraham · February 21, 2011, 10:51 AM

But I really could have used that job,,,
So I went with a polite refusal,,,
I knew it wouldn't work.

The reason I posted the event was just to vent,,,
I have a Master's Degree in Education,,,
I have 8 years experience tutoring,,,
In short I am very well qualified.

But because the superintendent of the board is a rabid anti-gunner,,,
I won't even be considered for the position,,,
I might contaminate a young mind.

There's nothing actionable in the event,,,
It just bums me out is all.

That part-time paycheck would have bought a lot of ammunition.

Aarond

**Aguila Blanca** · February 21, 2011, 11:49 AM

And the sad thing is that, due to an administrator's prejudice over something totally unrelated to the position, the kids will be deprived of exposure to someone who would probably be a good teacher.

I'm old enough to have attended a day camp, run by two prep school teachers, that included riflery and archery in the daily activities -- for girls as well as for boys. Learning to use firearms was NORMAL in the 1950s. There was a small shooting range in a corner of a town-owned field that also housed softball fields. The softball fields are still there, but the town now has an ordinance that prohibits even carrying a loaded firearm on ANY town-owned property (even if you have a state permit).

It doesn't help solve anything, but I have to wonder how we have fallen so low within my lifetime?

natman · February 21, 2011, 02:28 PM

Quote:

Yesterday I applied for a position as a weekend tutor/substitute teacher,,,
Local public school district here in Stillwater.

"Mr. Graham, do you own a handgun?"

My God, are the kids there that tough?

Seriously, this is not a business enforcing a "policy". If it's a public school, it's a government entity.

tmlynch · February 21, 2011, 08:23 PM

Quote:

we can start going after this type of thing the same way we would if they said "Sir, are you 30 years old, because we don't hire anyone under 30".

Actually, skipping over everyone under 30 would be perfectly legal. The protected class for age discrimination is folks 40 and over.

Regards,
Tom

blume357 · February 24, 2011, 08:21 PM

a lot of questions on job applications are violations of federal law and if someone wanted to could probably sue...

just like the big sign at Home Depot that says they test all applicants for illegal drug use... can't do it. If you are hired you can be tested but not when you apply.

the gun question is the same... if you can prove you were not hired because of how you answered the question... a good lawyer could get him or herself a nice sum and let you have a small part of it.

**Frank Ettin** · February 24, 2011, 08:42 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by blume357

...the gun question is the same... if you can prove you were not hired because of how you answered the question... a good lawyer could get him or herself a nice sum and let you have a small part of it....

Care to cite some legal authority for that assertion?

ROGER4314 · February 24, 2011, 10:18 PM

Since the electronic application age is upon us, companies are getting away with law violations and improper questions routinely. In fact, some applications ask for your birth date. That is clearly illegal but if you 1) Falsify the birth date, you get fired. or 2) Try to leave it blank, the application is not complete and will not submit.

Age discrimination is rampant in hiring now and they get by with it. I got to the point where I wasn't even nice about it when I saw it. I'd tell them to stuff their job!

Flash

**44 AMP** · February 24, 2011, 10:21 PM

The legally protected classes are age, gender, religion, disability, sexual orientation, race,etc. and are legally defined with various restrictions and applications. Political opinion, is not a protected class like religion. And in our society, currently, gunownership, (for any and every reason) is a political statement, not a religious one.

And we worked a long time just to get that. Gun ownership as a political statement gives us an avenue (albeit a very narrow one) outside of the 2nd Amendment argument.

A private firm or individual is free to hire or not, anyone the care to, so long as they do not violate those limits specified in law. Individuals acting as agents of the government have much more defined rules, one of which is that nothing that is not prohibited by law should have any bearing on the selection of one qualified individual over an other. Equal treatment under the law is supposed to be the guiding concept.

I once had a govt paid for Health and Risk Analysis survey, all the usual questions, and NONE about firearms at all. When the results came back, one of the suggested behaviors to reduce my risk in life was to "avoid handguns".

I complained. For once, it did some good. A general letter of apology got issued, and the company contracted for the survey did not get the next year's contract, and I never saw anything from them at work again.

If you get turned down for a school position, only because you "admitted" to owning a gun, AND you have a reasonable chance of proving it, you ought to seek legal council. If it is a private business that does business with the govt, same thing. Otherwise, write it off and move on.

But short of having video or a signed statement saying that you were not considered because you own a gun, its real tough to prove to a court, unless they admit it. And that isn't really likely, is it?

**Frank Ettin** · February 24, 2011, 10:23 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ROGER4314

...In fact, some applications ask for your birth date. That is clearly illegal...

Agreed, because persons age 40 and older are a class specifically protected by statute.

Rufus T Firefly · February 25, 2011, 12:10 AM

I don't own a gun, I don't attend church, I don't follow our constitution, I believe everyone should get citizenship if they come over the border.

I think that makes you a Liberal on the application. If I missed anything, you guys can fill in the blanks!

Maybe a US Citizen Carry Card with DNA! Just so they know it is us and not some bad guy like Bin Larder.....

I actually don't worry much. I am sure people are fed up with Liberals and the liberals that mean well are seeing how they are being used and responding intelligently.

Will Beararms · February 26, 2011, 05:41 PM

Schools and Churches in America both fall in the same category. They want people who tow the line and fly under the radar. They do not want any unpleasantness. They are long on talk and policy and short on action. Anything that might tarnish a reputation or bring on potential embarrassment is swept under the rug if not held at bay at the door. The question posed to the prospective teacher falls right in line with the mindset in America.

Without going into details, I am a person of Faith and I attend Church regularly. I just call it as I see it when the 2 ton pink elephant is in the corner of the room. Via first hand experience with a rebellious son I know first hand how modern schools and churches operate. Still you can't let humans cause you to lose sight of what is really important in life.

In the case of my potential job, I am sure this is something that either came from the ownership in Japan or someone in a high leadership position stateside who was unfriendly to firearms. I am actually glad I learned up front but just the same it was cause for concern.

DG45 · March 14, 2011, 02:58 PM

Just noticed this thread which is a little old now, but thought I might add something.

Everybody here jumped to the conclusion that the company doing the hiring didn't want you to own a gun, and were offended because they owned one but didn't want to have to answer "yes"to that question, but hey! There are a few 2A supporters who own companies too, and answering that question "no" might for them might have as easily been interpreted to mean the applicant was a nutso left wing union activist limp-wrist or something.

If I'd been asked in a job interview if I owned a gun, I'd have acted surprised and said something like "Your job advertisement didn't mention that I'd be required to own a gun. Is this a dangerous job?" and then I'd try to mindread from their reply which way the wind blew in thaqt company on that question. Then I'd give them the answer I thought they wanted to hear. I'd certainly never let the truth or my personal political sentiments stand in the way of feeding my family.

I carried a concealed weapon against the policy of my employer for 20 years under the same "street" logic that's inheirent in the old saying that "it's better to be to be tried for a crime by a 12 man jury than to be carried to your grave by 6 pall bearers.

The whole purpose of carrying a concealed weapon is so that nobody will know you're carrying it, isn't it?

Silver Bullet · March 20, 2011, 11:13 AM

"Do you own a handgun?"

"Why, how soon do I need to get one to qualify for reparations?"

Gary L. Griffiths · March 20, 2011, 11:50 AM

Quote:

"Why, are the schools in the district dangerous enough that you recommend I get one?"

That's priceless!

February 19, 2011, 10:14 AM	#27
BGutzman Senior Member Join Date: December 4, 2009 Location: Frozen Tundra Posts: 2,414	I would (If I had enough coffee) gone with "Why yes, do you have a problem with the constitution and Supreme Court Rulings?" __________________ Molon Labe

February 19, 2011, 10:21 AM	#28
jgcoastie Senior Member Join Date: February 15, 2009 Location: Kodiak, Alaska Posts: 2,118	Thankfully, my chosen career tends to encourage gun ownership... But, if the question were asked of me... - Mr. JG, do you own any firearms? Mr./Mrs./Ms. Interviewer, do you read newspapers, magazines, or books? - I'm not sure how that's relevant to the question I just asked you. And I'm not sure that you asking me about if or how I exercise my Constitutionaly-guarenteed Rights is relevant to this interview. - Please just answer the question Mr. JG. Would you like to know what (if any) religious organizations I am affiliated with as well? Because if you want to know if or how I exercise one right, you'll probably want to know about the rest of them, correct? - I think we're done here. You bet your ass we are. EDIT: The only job interview I can think of where that would be an appropriate question is if you're applying for a job at a gun shop, shooting range, etc... And that would be to gauge your experiences and knowledge of particular types of firearms. But the odds of a non-gun owner applying at one of those places is slim to none, so it would likely just be a point of conversation and not officially part of the interview... __________________ "To preserve liberty, it is essential that the whole body of the people always possess arms, and be taught alike, especially when young, how to use them." -Richard Henry Lee, Virginia delegate to the Continental Congress, initiator of the Declaration of Independence, and member of the first Senate, which passed the Bill of Rights. Last edited by jgcoastie; February 19, 2011 at 10:56 AM.

February 19, 2011, 10:32 AM	#29
TXAZ Senior Member Join Date: September 5, 2010 Location: McMurdo Sound Texas Posts: 4,322	Mr. Graham, do you own a handgun? "Well Mr. Dingleberry, if that were a requirement for the job and you could recommend a gun shop and a range I could learn on, I guess I could save up and go buy one." (with appropriate respect to Bill Murray in "Stripes) __________________ Cave illos in guns et backhoes

February 19, 2011, 05:32 PM	#30
jaysonr Junior Member Join Date: February 17, 2011 Posts: 3	An answer for the teaching job ... "Why, are the schools in the district dangerous enough that you recommend I get one?"

February 21, 2011, 10:51 AM	#31
aarondhgraham Senior Member Join Date: December 1, 2009 Location: Stillwater, OKlahoma Posts: 8,638	I had all kinds of "smart" answers in readiness,,, But I really could have used that job,,, So I went with a polite refusal,,, I knew it wouldn't work. The reason I posted the event was just to vent,,, I have a Master's Degree in Education,,, I have 8 years experience tutoring,,, In short I am very well qualified. But because the superintendent of the board is a rabid anti-gunner,,, I won't even be considered for the position,,, I might contaminate a young mind. There's nothing actionable in the event,,, It just bums me out is all. That part-time paycheck would have bought a lot of ammunition. Aarond __________________ Never ever give an enemy the advantage of a verbal threat. Caje: The coward dies a thousand times, the brave only once. Kirby: That's about all it takes, ain't it? Aarond is good,,, Aarond is wise,,, Always trust Aarond! (most of the time)

February 19, 2011, 09:00 AM	#26
cerberus65 Senior Member Join Date: April 30, 2008 Posts: 384	I think is how it would have gone down with me: Interviewer: "Mr. K, do you own a handgun? Me: Laughing, "what does that have to do with anything?"

February 21, 2011, 11:49 AM	#32
Aguila Blanca Staff Join Date: September 25, 2008 Location: CONUS Posts: 18,459	And the sad thing is that, due to an administrator's prejudice over something totally unrelated to the position, the kids will be deprived of exposure to someone who would probably be a good teacher. I'm old enough to have attended a day camp, run by two prep school teachers, that included riflery and archery in the daily activities -- for girls as well as for boys. Learning to use firearms was NORMAL in the 1950s. There was a small shooting range in a corner of a town-owned field that also housed softball fields. The softball fields are still there, but the town now has an ordinance that prohibits even carrying a loaded firearm on ANY town-owned property (even if you have a state permit). It doesn't help solve anything, but I have to wonder how we have fallen so low within my lifetime?

February 24, 2011, 08:21 PM	#35
blume357 Senior Member Join Date: August 2, 2005 Location: Greenville, SC Posts: 3,943	I don't think so... a lot of questions on job applications are violations of federal law and if someone wanted to could probably sue... just like the big sign at Home Depot that says they test all applicants for illegal drug use... can't do it. If you are hired you can be tested but not when you apply. the gun question is the same... if you can prove you were not hired because of how you answered the question... a good lawyer could get him or herself a nice sum and let you have a small part of it.

February 24, 2011, 10:18 PM	#37
ROGER4314 Senior Member Join Date: May 17, 2009 Location: East Houston Posts: 257	Since the electronic application age is upon us, companies are getting away with law violations and improper questions routinely. In fact, some applications ask for your birth date. That is clearly illegal but if you 1) Falsify the birth date, you get fired. or 2) Try to leave it blank, the application is not complete and will not submit. Age discrimination is rampant in hiring now and they get by with it. I got to the point where I wasn't even nice about it when I saw it. I'd tell them to stuff their job! Flash

February 24, 2011, 10:21 PM	#38
44 AMP Staff Join Date: March 11, 2006 Location: Upper US Posts: 28,817	The legally protected classes are age, gender, religion, disability, sexual orientation, race,etc. and are legally defined with various restrictions and applications. Political opinion, is not a protected class like religion. And in our society, currently, gunownership, (for any and every reason) is a political statement, not a religious one. And we worked a long time just to get that. Gun ownership as a political statement gives us an avenue (albeit a very narrow one) outside of the 2nd Amendment argument. A private firm or individual is free to hire or not, anyone the care to, so long as they do not violate those limits specified in law. Individuals acting as agents of the government have much more defined rules, one of which is that nothing that is not prohibited by law should have any bearing on the selection of one qualified individual over an other. Equal treatment under the law is supposed to be the guiding concept. I once had a govt paid for Health and Risk Analysis survey, all the usual questions, and NONE about firearms at all. When the results came back, one of the suggested behaviors to reduce my risk in life was to "avoid handguns". I complained. For once, it did some good. A general letter of apology got issued, and the company contracted for the survey did not get the next year's contract, and I never saw anything from them at work again. If you get turned down for a school position, only because you "admitted" to owning a gun, AND you have a reasonable chance of proving it, you ought to seek legal council. If it is a private business that does business with the govt, same thing. Otherwise, write it off and move on. But short of having video or a signed statement saying that you were not considered because you own a gun, its real tough to prove to a court, unless they admit it. And that isn't really likely, is it? __________________ All else being equal (and it almost never is) bigger bullets tend to work better.

February 25, 2011, 12:10 AM	#40
Rufus T Firefly Junior member Join Date: January 30, 2011 Location: MN Posts: 174	I would just lie like crazy.... I don't own a gun, I don't attend church, I don't follow our constitution, I believe everyone should get citizenship if they come over the border. I think that makes you a Liberal on the application. If I missed anything, you guys can fill in the blanks! Maybe a US Citizen Carry Card with DNA! Just so they know it is us and not some bad guy like Bin Larder..... I actually don't worry much. I am sure people are fed up with Liberals and the liberals that mean well are seeing how they are being used and responding intelligently.

February 26, 2011, 05:41 PM	#41
Will Beararms Senior Member Join Date: October 12, 1999 Location: North Texas Posts: 2,834	Schools and Churches in America both fall in the same category. They want people who tow the line and fly under the radar. They do not want any unpleasantness. They are long on talk and policy and short on action. Anything that might tarnish a reputation or bring on potential embarrassment is swept under the rug if not held at bay at the door. The question posed to the prospective teacher falls right in line with the mindset in America. Without going into details, I am a person of Faith and I attend Church regularly. I just call it as I see it when the 2 ton pink elephant is in the corner of the room. Via first hand experience with a rebellious son I know first hand how modern schools and churches operate. Still you can't let humans cause you to lose sight of what is really important in life. In the case of my potential job, I am sure this is something that either came from the ownership in Japan or someone in a high leadership position stateside who was unfriendly to firearms. I am actually glad I learned up front but just the same it was cause for concern. __________________ "Without a rifle you are nothing, worthless, you are waiting for death, any minute, any second." -- Aron Bielski

March 14, 2011, 02:58 PM	#42
DG45 Senior Member Join Date: January 5, 2009 Posts: 904	Just noticed this thread which is a little old now, but thought I might add something. Everybody here jumped to the conclusion that the company doing the hiring didn't want you to own a gun, and were offended because they owned one but didn't want to have to answer "yes"to that question, but hey! There are a few 2A supporters who own companies too, and answering that question "no" might for them might have as easily been interpreted to mean the applicant was a nutso left wing union activist limp-wrist or something. If I'd been asked in a job interview if I owned a gun, I'd have acted surprised and said something like "Your job advertisement didn't mention that I'd be required to own a gun. Is this a dangerous job?" and then I'd try to mindread from their reply which way the wind blew in thaqt company on that question. Then I'd give them the answer I thought they wanted to hear. I'd certainly never let the truth or my personal political sentiments stand in the way of feeding my family. I carried a concealed weapon against the policy of my employer for 20 years under the same "street" logic that's inheirent in the old saying that "it's better to be to be tried for a crime by a 12 man jury than to be carried to your grave by 6 pall bearers. The whole purpose of carrying a concealed weapon is so that nobody will know you're carrying it, isn't it? Last edited by DG45; March 14, 2011 at 05:49 PM.

March 20, 2011, 11:13 AM	#43
Silver Bullet Senior Member Join Date: June 6, 2001 Location: Arizona Posts: 995	"Do you own a handgun?" "Why, how soon do I need to get one to qualify for reparations?" __________________ I am not a real bullet, nor do I play one on television. American socialism: Democrats trying to get Republicans to provide for them.