Mosin Nagant 31/90 Questions?

gungun · October 24, 2008, 09:13 AM

I just ordered a MN-91/30. I've read some require a head space adjusted while others require no adjustment. How do I know if the head space needs adjustment? If my weapon requires adjustment, is this something any smith can do?

Everyone seems to have their method for cleaning cosmoline off of these weapons. Some recommend hot water. Others recommend various solvents. Is there is defacto recommended method? A link available?

Bayonet required for accuracy? I've found no shortage of people stating accuracy suffers if you fire this weapon without the bayonet attached? WTH? For the life of me I can't figure out how this could possibly be true unless it's somehow part of the front sight. This strikes me as nothing but an old wives tale. What are the FACTS here?

Lastly, is dry firing a concern with these weapons?

jaguarxk120 · October 24, 2008, 09:21 AM

Taking cosmoline off you can use any solvent you want. Mineral spirits or try using engine degreaser. Anyway you do it it's a messy job. will go through a roll of paper towels.

The bayonet, from what I've read, the sights are calibrated to shoot with it extended. Try it and see what happens! Tom F.

noelf2 · October 24, 2008, 10:01 AM

gungun - Is there a another mosin model out there that I need to add to my collection, or do you have a 91/30?

The weight and position of the bayonette will cause enough of a disturbance to affect accuracy. Not BS. Not sure if the 91/30's were dialed in with the bayonette on or off, but the M44 has a fixed bayonette and the accuracy is affected by whether it is folded back or locked in position. Windage can be adjusted, but I just put a scope on my Mosin instead.

gungun · October 24, 2008, 10:20 AM

Sorry about that. I keep transposing the numbers. It is a 91/30. I fixed the body of the message but the subject is still incorrect. Opps.

Darren007 · October 24, 2008, 03:26 PM

Like others have pointed out, Mosin sights were zeroed with the bayonet attached or extended. This isnt an "old wives tale"...it was actual Russian doctrine and has been verified.

The reason behind this is simple, Russian soldiers were instructed and expected to keep the bayonet on their rifles, attached or extended at all times.

Does that mean your gun will shoot better with the bayo? Maybe, maybe not.....it really depends on the ammo you choose.

gungun · October 24, 2008, 05:43 PM

Like others have pointed out, Mosin sights were zeroed with the bayonet attached or extended.

Okay, but I've really not heard the root cause? Is it a weapon balance/recoil issue with more weight on the front of the rifle causing it to go off center as the bullet travels the long barrel? Less weight means more travel/rise/shift? Weapon is simply batter balanced and shooter is less likely to move off center during trigger squeeze? What? I'm not trying to be difficult, I'm just trying to understand.

I've read some require a head space adjusted while others require no adjustment. How do I know if the head space needs adjustment? If my weapon requires adjustment, is this something any smith can do?

Is dry firing a concern with these weapons?

grymster2007 · October 24, 2008, 06:19 PM

An article on Mosin headspacing:

Mosin Headspace

Tom2 · October 24, 2008, 06:36 PM

Attach a bayonet, a steel rod, a barbell weight, anything like that to the end of the barrel of a rifle, and it will affect point of impact. Whether it affects group size may be anyones guess. May make it better or worse. Mine came with the front sight drifted just a little in the dovetail. Point of impact was off center on one side a bit, due to the bayonet not being on the barrel, I suppose. Easy enough to drift the front sight over with a brass punch till it impacted where I wanted, center. I expect that if I want to shoot it with the bayo. on it, for some reason, like hunting wild boar to fight off charges, it would not impact the same as with it off. Just the dynamics of a rifle with a long skinny barrel. I have not heard much about headspace problems or at least I have not had an issue with mine. But they were arsenal overhauled and presumably, if they still have the right bolt installed, they theoretically should be good headspace. Some gun that has been used alot or does not have the matching bolt, etc, might have issues. PRESUMABLY....all military arsenals that overhaul military rifles for their own use, strive to put overhauled rifles into ready to use storage with correct headspace among other basic standards...?

Darren007 · October 24, 2008, 06:58 PM

Quote:

Okay, but I've really not heard the root cause? Is it a weapon balance/recoil issue with more weight on the front of the rifle causing it to go off center as the bullet travels the long barrel? Less weight means more travel/rise/shift? Weapon is simply batter balanced and shooter is less likely to move off center during trigger squeeze? What? I'm not trying to be difficult, I'm just trying to understand.

Not exactly sure what it is your not understanding.

If you take a barrel and attach something to it its going to change the point of impact. Since Russian soldiers were required to keep their bayonets attached at all times the sights on these guns were then zeroed with the bayonet attached. Keeping the bayonet attached has nothing to do with anything your talking about. Its a weapon, and Soviet doctrine dictated it be ready for use at all times...hence the reasoning for it being attached at all times.

gandog56 · October 25, 2008, 04:42 PM

Quote:

Okay, but I've really not heard the root cause? Is it a weapon balance/recoil issue with more weight on the front of the rifle causing it to go off center as the bullet travels the long barrel?

Don't think that's it, heard it was barrel harmonics. Really has nothing to do with accuracy per se as far as I know. It has to do with where the bullets impact. On my 91/30 the bullets go about 2 1/2 inches to the left of where they hit with my bayonet attached. The group is just as tight.

Never heard of anybody having a problem dry firing one.

I used boiling water to remove cosmoline from the metal parts, and heat and mineral spirits on the wood parts.

October 24, 2008, 09:13 AM	#1
gungun Junior Member Join Date: October 15, 2008 Posts: 4	Mosin Nagant 31/90 Questions? I just ordered a MN-91/30. I've read some require a head space adjusted while others require no adjustment. How do I know if the head space needs adjustment? If my weapon requires adjustment, is this something any smith can do? Everyone seems to have their method for cleaning cosmoline off of these weapons. Some recommend hot water. Others recommend various solvents. Is there is defacto recommended method? A link available? Bayonet required for accuracy? I've found no shortage of people stating accuracy suffers if you fire this weapon without the bayonet attached? WTH? For the life of me I can't figure out how this could possibly be true unless it's somehow part of the front sight. This strikes me as nothing but an old wives tale. What are the FACTS here? Lastly, is dry firing a concern with these weapons? Last edited by gungun; October 24, 2008 at 10:19 AM. Reason: Transposed the numbers...

October 24, 2008, 10:01 AM	#3
noelf2 Senior Member Join Date: April 14, 2008 Location: Stuart, VA Posts: 2,473	gungun - Is there a another mosin model out there that I need to add to my collection, or do you have a 91/30? The weight and position of the bayonette will cause enough of a disturbance to affect accuracy. Not BS. Not sure if the 91/30's were dialed in with the bayonette on or off, but the M44 has a fixed bayonette and the accuracy is affected by whether it is folded back or locked in position. Windage can be adjusted, but I just put a scope on my Mosin instead. __________________ Liberty and freedom often offends those who understand neither.

October 24, 2008, 06:19 PM	#7
grymster2007 Senior Member Join Date: May 22, 2007 Location: In the oak studded hills near Napa Posts: 2,203	An article on Mosin headspacing: Mosin Headspace __________________ grym

October 24, 2008, 06:36 PM	#8
Tom2 Senior Member Join Date: June 23, 2004 Location: Ohio Posts: 5,676	Attach a bayonet, a steel rod, a barbell weight, anything like that to the end of the barrel of a rifle, and it will affect point of impact. Whether it affects group size may be anyones guess. May make it better or worse. Mine came with the front sight drifted just a little in the dovetail. Point of impact was off center on one side a bit, due to the bayonet not being on the barrel, I suppose. Easy enough to drift the front sight over with a brass punch till it impacted where I wanted, center. I expect that if I want to shoot it with the bayo. on it, for some reason, like hunting wild boar to fight off charges, it would not impact the same as with it off. Just the dynamics of a rifle with a long skinny barrel. I have not heard much about headspace problems or at least I have not had an issue with mine. But they were arsenal overhauled and presumably, if they still have the right bolt installed, they theoretically should be good headspace. Some gun that has been used alot or does not have the matching bolt, etc, might have issues. PRESUMABLY....all military arsenals that overhaul military rifles for their own use, strive to put overhauled rifles into ready to use storage with correct headspace among other basic standards...? __________________ Your gun is like your nose, it is just wrong for someone else to pick it for you!

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October 24, 2008, 09:21 AM	#2
jaguarxk120 Senior Member Join Date: February 28, 2008 Location: Michigan Posts: 2,619	Taking cosmoline off you can use any solvent you want. Mineral spirits or try using engine degreaser. Anyway you do it it's a messy job. will go through a roll of paper towels. The bayonet, from what I've read, the sights are calibrated to shoot with it extended. Try it and see what happens! Tom F.

October 24, 2008, 10:20 AM	#4
gungun Junior Member Join Date: October 15, 2008 Posts: 4	Sorry about that. I keep transposing the numbers. It is a 91/30. I fixed the body of the message but the subject is still incorrect. Opps.

October 24, 2008, 03:26 PM	#5
Darren007 Senior Member Join Date: November 18, 2007 Location: Colorado Posts: 1,053	Like others have pointed out, Mosin sights were zeroed with the bayonet attached or extended. This isnt an "old wives tale"...it was actual Russian doctrine and has been verified. The reason behind this is simple, Russian soldiers were instructed and expected to keep the bayonet on their rifles, attached or extended at all times. Does that mean your gun will shoot better with the bayo? Maybe, maybe not.....it really depends on the ammo you choose.

October 24, 2008, 05:43 PM	#6
gungun Junior Member Join Date: October 15, 2008 Posts: 4	Like others have pointed out, Mosin sights were zeroed with the bayonet attached or extended. Okay, but I've really not heard the root cause? Is it a weapon balance/recoil issue with more weight on the front of the rifle causing it to go off center as the bullet travels the long barrel? Less weight means more travel/rise/shift? Weapon is simply batter balanced and shooter is less likely to move off center during trigger squeeze? What? I'm not trying to be difficult, I'm just trying to understand. I've read some require a head space adjusted while others require no adjustment. How do I know if the head space needs adjustment? If my weapon requires adjustment, is this something any smith can do? Is dry firing a concern with these weapons?