February 16, 2009, 12:05 AM | #426 |
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Fantastic project and beautiful work. I'll definetly keep this one for a ref.
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February 20, 2009, 03:11 AM | #427 |
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dcobler--Thankyou and if you or anyone needs any
help in the way of info or research just ask.Those of us doing this are having fun and glad to help anyway we can.ED
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ED HUBEL |
February 22, 2009, 12:46 AM | #428 |
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Here is picture of one of RIP's NEFs 12GA FH, with
a Vias brake installed. He had smith ream out a 50cal one to let 12ga slugs pass through...Ed
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February 27, 2009, 11:40 PM | #429 |
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The Vias brake bored out in above picture will help
RIP with recoil as he wants to shoot all heavy slugs in the NEF Ultra. Guys like the Vias brakes.They can be bored out and fitted to anything. I just like ported internal brakes and more gun weight. Here are some results( had 1 nice day) with 8 gauge and 10ga light slug loads of my testing. I call them my real big bore varmint loads. A 770 gr slug in 8ga fired in Enfield at 2400 all 3 shots nearly touching at 20 yds. A 515 gr Lyman, NEF 10ga at 2400, same tight group at 20yds. Lyman is originally for 12ga, but is fit in 10ga thickwall BPI shotcup cut off and slug glued in so it is like a impact discarding sabot. Both smoothbores. Smaller varmint load. NEF rifled 12ga with RG's 385gr aluminum cored jacketed slug at 2700, 2 overlapping and one half inch away using RMC 3.5" case. Ed
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February 28, 2009, 04:17 PM | #430 |
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W. O. W.
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March 2, 2009, 12:59 AM | #431 |
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The three slug loads tested above are real
light recoiling, easy to shoot. I call them my big bore, varmint slugs as they are light for the bore size. Here is picture of the 3 slugs for comparison. 1st is 770gr in 8ga wadcup, second is 515 Lyman in 10ga wadcup, third is the 12ga 385gr HP with aluminum core. The 8ga wadcup loses its petals going out the barrel, but hollowbase 770gr slug stays straight.The 515gr Lyman in the 10ga thickwall wadcup is also as a unit nose heavy and runs straight. The Lyman is held in cup with little plastic mender glue, so that it acts like a Hammerhead and Lightfield slugs.Ed
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ED HUBEL Last edited by HUBEL458; March 2, 2009 at 01:16 AM. |
March 3, 2009, 11:33 PM | #432 |
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Here is what a 600gr super hardened Dixie slug
at 29-3000 plus does to two mild steel plates with 2" wood between them. Fired from our long case in the Savage.Plates are soft mild steel. Anyone interested in the 12ga Encore with 3.5" chambers, that I tested loads in, it is on Gunbroker..Ed
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March 6, 2009, 10:39 PM | #433 |
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Shot the NEF 8GA FH. That is the heavy barrel NEF
that was a 10ga.. I bored it out to 8ga and chambered it for the heavy duty 8ga case. 770gr at 2200 out of 29" barrel. End of barrel has internal brake with 21 porting holes and with weighted thumbhole stock, it handles recoil easy.Will have picture soon.Ed
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March 11, 2009, 11:20 PM | #434 |
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Here is my 12GA FH Savage 210 with thumbhole
stock, I put on in place of first one that cracked. Along with weight and heavy barrel handles recoil great. It is a Boyd and came inleted for Savage 112, and I re-did inleting to fit 210 and heavy barrel,and got rid of monte carlo outline.Ed
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March 16, 2009, 11:46 PM | #435 |
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Here is picture of RIP's two 12GA FH NEFs.
Both are the 12ga Ultra Slug Guns. One has Vias brake, other expansion chamber. He calls it his golf ball launcher. Ed
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March 16, 2009, 11:55 PM | #436 |
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I've got to admit that I'm extremely impressed by all of this. Showed my buddies at work to the sound of much "ooing" and "awing" Great job man.
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March 17, 2009, 09:10 PM | #437 |
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I found a shotgun primer that will ignite rifle powders,
like RL15-19, IMR 4064,4198, etc. With regular shotgun primers I had to use Blue Dot starter. But not with these.....They are the industrial shotgun primers used in the 8ga kiln gun cases. I use these cases with basecup reduced in my 8 gauges. When I set up first 8ga I fired the primers only to test firing function(cases came with primer), then I put regular 209 primers in to test loads, with 4759 powder. Found box of WIN paper case kiln 3oz loads and took one apart and noticed it had 94gr of some ball powder. I wondered what powder is and how a regular shotgun primer could ignite that, based on our need for starter powder using regular rifle powders. So I fired that industrial primer and flame and sparks came out of 8ga NEF barrel 2-3 feet. Put a regular primer in same case and flame just a few inches. So I took REM kiln case with original REM industrial primer and 2-3 feet of flame,and put regular primer in and just few inches of flame. If anyone got info on th powder used and how to get these primers, let us know. I took some out of 8ga and put in 12ga plastic. Using these hairy industrial primers today fired 180gr of RL-15, in 12GA FH NEF, in 3.5" plastic cases with 437gr Brenekke KO slug. Got perfect ignition, no starter. 140gr with 600gr dixie, perfect ignition. Also I have the 12ga Encore that we tested loads in, on Gunbroker, in shotgun singleshot section.Ed
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March 17, 2009, 09:16 PM | #438 |
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Do you guys know where one could purchase sabots that could be used to load 12ga shells with something in the 30-45 caliber bullet range?
I'm thinking that if a 12ga can fire a 385gr slug at 1900 fps then it ought to be able to do wonders with a 150-250gr bullet.
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March 18, 2009, 12:00 AM | #439 |
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The only 12ga sabots out there so far that I know of,
are for 50 cal slug/bullets. Like the BPI shown earlier in thread. Maybe there is a 50cal sabot that holds 30 cal bullets and put that in 12ga sabot.Ed
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March 18, 2009, 09:53 AM | #440 | |
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Quote:
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March 19, 2009, 09:41 PM | #441 |
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I always felt that if some company would make powders like 7383
available it would be great. 7383 ignites fine with regular shotgun primers in 12ga, but it is surplus and only a few of us have it.It is a powder that has a lot of the deterrent inside the of the material, not all near the outside like 99% of all other powders whether spherical, tubular, or flake. This allows easier ignition, but yet the deterrent still can control the speed. Well the new RE-17 just out for 2 days is setup like that. The surface of the RE-17 grains is more porous than RE15, so that fact allows better ignition even though a slower powder, and along with fact that company got most deterent inside it still regulates speed. Today I fired with regular REM and WIN primers in plastic and RMC cases, a whole bunch of loads of RE-17, with no hesitation or squibs or misfires. Loads ranged from 437 gr slugs to 750gr slugs today. All loads burnt clean and I got in RMC case one of RG's 715gr jkt slugs to 2300 with 160 gr of RE-17.....Whoopee....Ed
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March 25, 2009, 10:04 PM | #442 |
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I shot couple loads with regular primer with RE-17
and 1040 gr slug in 12GA FH NEF, and it does great. Tested loads that were cooled outside a while.Perfect ignition. I fired loads RE-17 8ga plastic,in my 8GA FH on new NEF long heavy barrel that was a 10 ga and RE-17 is great. No hesitation, it fires off as good in 8ga as the 4759. Remember I couldn't get good ignition in 8g with 4227, but so far RE-17 is magic. In 8 ga all it would hold under the 8ga REM wadcup with 770 gr slug is 200 gr of RE-!7, with the wadcup pressed down, compressed real hard,good crimp, and it really bellers.2400 plus.Going by case expansion about 20k pressure. Which don't bother those one piece compression molded super strong 8ga REM cases. You must have real tight proper roll crimp in plastic cases and good tight taper crimp or rolled in crimp in groove in the brass cases. In RMC brass I size it so slugs have to be shoved in with press. And this RE-17 doesn't break up the kernels when powder gets to a certain point, like the 7383 does, causing burning rate to speed up more than what it was designed for. I tested 7383 in my 700HE, and when up to 35-40k it's pressure went up fast, much more than linear progression. I still like 7383 at shotgun pressures, but I really like RE-17.Just pour case full and shoot with lighter slugs. Ok- for those who want to get into the 12GA FH and get the long strong 3.85 inch cases Rob on AR got some made, you can email him to get some- [email protected] He can also tell you where to get reamer.Ed.
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March 30, 2009, 01:48 AM | #443 |
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Here is picture of another fellas work on AR forum,
of NEF 12GA FH, factory thumbhole stock and a brake he built, with wide slots in top and round ports on the sides. He is testing heavy slugs.Ed
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April 1, 2009, 10:50 PM | #444 |
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Here's picture of solid turned 12ga slugs that Rob makes.
They are flat on one end and hollowpoint on other. They can be shot either direction. Aluminum ones are 346gr, brass 1080gr........If you need any contact him. He, RIP, and others on AR are testing them with different powders. I have gotten similiar brass ones to 1900 in NEF with RMC case, with 140 gr the new RL-17. Ed
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April 5, 2009, 11:08 PM | #445 |
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Heavy brass slug testing-----
RIP'S components in first picture- 15gr Blue Dot starter, thin plastic separator, 230gr HBMG, thin plastic under slug, and 1087gr brass slug; in a RMC 3.5" brass case, fired in his great looking, braked NEF 12ga FH Ultra, got him 1812 fps average. Barrel and brake are 27" total length. Great work. Ed
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April 13, 2009, 01:20 AM | #446 |
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One of our testers, Bret in MN, got the BPI Sabot with
500gr Hornady .500 slug up to the good speed listed on BPI"s loading sheet, using shotgun powders. I could get them there with my loads using much larger amounts of rifle powders. He tested 3.5" Federal plastic cases in his Savage 210 with 3.5" chamber and the 28" heavy barrel he put on. With 50gr of Longshot(max load for all modern guns) he got 2550 fps, with 500gr in sabot. He use two BPGS gas seals fitted together over the powder, then a FS12 Flexseal wad, then a 1/4" cork wad, then the sabot. Then a good strong roll crimp with drill/drillpress crimper. This load is at mag shotgun pressures by case expansion measurements and BPI's 46gr load tested at 12,500 psi. He also did one with one BPGS and two Flexseals and had 200 fps less.He had tried other combinations seals/wads and with same amount of powder and got lower yet. He also went up with the powder, with seal/wads that worked the best and got about 3000 fps, but the plastic cases stuck and wouldn't eject easy. I will be testing same seal and wad column in a few days, in my NEF with long barrel to compare results.I thank Bret, he is a real good experimenter and idea man. Everybody is trying like crazy to get that 500gr saboted slug up to big game gun velocities with shotgun powder and thanks to BPI"s supply of the right components it has happened.Ed
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April 13, 2009, 11:25 PM | #447 |
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Have you got pictures of the 8 GA. yet?
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April 15, 2009, 02:45 AM | #448 |
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There is two pics above. One is 8ga in the Enfield
bolt acton. the other is the NEF, and here is NEF in pic again.Ed
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April 16, 2009, 10:36 PM | #449 |
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Rob on AR is building a 12GA FH double on a Zabala Double
10 gauge frame. It has the Greener crossbolt. He cut off barrels to make a 4" long monoblock double to screw a pair of heavy 12ga rifled Pacnor barrels into. He reamed out monoblock section and threaded it. His barrels are 1.116" at the breach, .97" at muzzle and 22" total length. Barrels threaded into monoblock with a 15/16" x 32 thread. In the pics it is partly done and he will put in the ribs and integral sight rib and regulate for accuracy. It will be about 14.5 lbs when done he says.Ed
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April 17, 2009, 12:06 AM | #450 |
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now that is dead sexy
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