I asked this question over on the C&R forum

Doc Hoy · December 8, 2013, 05:56 AM

I am sensitive to the fact that I post things on this forum that have only a loose association with black powder and I have been trying to avoid that. But here goes.

I am hoping that one of you historians who does not read the C&R forum might know the answer.

Is there any relationship between Ethan Allen (of Allen and Wheelock and ultimately Forehand and Wadsworth) and Charles W Allen (of Hopkins and Allen who contracted with and subsequently acquired Forehand and Wadsworth)

Ethan had no sons, so perhaps a nephew?

DD4lifeusmc · December 8, 2013, 09:00 AM

perhaps this paragraph will help

"Ethan had daughters but no sons. The "Company" refers to his 2 sons-in-law, Sullivan Forehand and H. C. Wadsworth. On Allen's death in 1871 they operated the company under their own names: Forehand & Wadsworth, until Forehand reorganized the company in 1890 as the Forehand Arms Company."

Hawg · December 8, 2013, 09:05 AM

No relationship that I know of. Ethan had two daughters. Forehand & Wadsworth were his son in laws.

DD beat me to it.

Doc Hoy · December 8, 2013, 09:59 AM

DD,

I had downloaded and read the file that contains the paragraph you cited. It is helpful at understanding the transition for F&W but not in making the connection to C.W.Allen.

Hawg,

I am also not able to establish any connection.

Just a coinkydink I guess.

DD4lifeusmc · December 8, 2013, 02:48 PM

ALLEN, Ethan — Massachusetts Arms manufacturer, 1832-63. See
Allen & Wheelock.
ALLEN, E. & CO.— Worcester, Mass., 1856-65. See Allen & Wheelock.
ALLEN, THURBER & CO.— Grafton, Mass., 1838-42. Norwich, Conn.,
1842-47. See Allen & Wheelock.
ALLEN & WHEELOCK— The firm was established by Ethan Allen.
Massachusetts firearms maker born Sept. 2, 1806. Established
himself in North Grafton about 1832, making Lambert cane-
guns and rifled target pistols. In 1838 commenced manufacture
of arms under his own patents, and incorporated with his
brothers-in-law, Charles T. Thurber and Thomas P. Wheelock
under the name Allen, Thurber & Co. The firm was well known
for its pepperbox revolvers, made mostly double-action with 5
and 6 barrels, though a few were made in a larger size with 3
or 4 barrels. Also made a double-barrel pistol.

In 1842 the firm moved to Norwich, Conn., and again in 1847
to Worcester, Mass. In 1857 on Thurber's retirement from the

firm, the name was changed to Allen & Wheelock. Mr. Wheelock
died in 1863, and in 1865, Allen's two sons-in-law, S. Forehand
and H. C. Wadsworth, were admitted to the firm, which in 1866
became known as Ethan Allen & Co. Mr. Allen died in January,
1871, and the firm continued manufacture of firearms, especially
revolvers, under the name Forehand and Wadsworth. During
the Civil War, Allen & Wheelock employed about 200 hands.
FOREHAND ARMS CO.— Worcester, Mass., 1890-1900. Renamed from
Forehand & Wadsworth. Makers of revolvers and sporting rifles.
Sold out to Hopkins & Allen Mfg. Co., of Norwich, Conn. See
Allen & Wheelock and Forehand & Wadsworth.

FOREHAND & WADSWORTH— Worcester, Mass., 1871-November,
1890. Sullivan Forehand and H. C. Wadsworth, sons-in-law of
Ethan Allen of the old firm of Ethan Allen & Co., and Allen &
Wheelock before that. Revolvers and sporting rifles. See Allen &
Wheelock.

Sullivan Forehand was born in Croyden, N. H., Oct. 10, 1831.
He became connected with Allen & Wheelock in 1860, and was
admitted into the firm in 1865 as a partner. Mr. Forehand died in
Worcester, June 7, 1898.
Henry C. Wadsworth came to Worcester at the age of 21,
entered the employ of Ethan Allen, and married his daughter,
Laurette. Had served nine months during the Civil War in Co.
"C," 51st Massachusetts Volunteers and was discharged as Ser-
geant. With Forehand, was admitted to the firm as a partner in
1865. Upon retirement from business was appointed vice-consul
at Santos, Brazil, where he died of yellow fever in March, 1892.
HOPKINS & ALLEN— Norwich, Conn., 1868-1915. Makers of rifles
and revolvers under the Hopkins & Allen patents and Merwin
None of this came from wikipedia.
Now I could copy and paste the other info I found.
But instead I will post the link. The first 2 or 3 pages pretty much outlines how the company came to be and the hopkins and Allen owners.

http://americansocietyofarmscollecto.../B020_Berg.pdf
PS It was C W Hopkins, Not CW Allen Allen was Charles H

December 8, 2013, 05:56 AM	#1
Doc Hoy Senior Member Join Date: October 24, 2008 Location: Naples, Fl Posts: 5,440	I asked this question over on the C&R forum I am sensitive to the fact that I post things on this forum that have only a loose association with black powder and I have been trying to avoid that. But here goes. I am hoping that one of you historians who does not read the C&R forum might know the answer. Is there any relationship between Ethan Allen (of Allen and Wheelock and ultimately Forehand and Wadsworth) and Charles W Allen (of Hopkins and Allen who contracted with and subsequently acquired Forehand and Wadsworth) Ethan had no sons, so perhaps a nephew? __________________ Seek truth. Relax. Take a breath.

December 8, 2013, 09:00 AM	#2
DD4lifeusmc Senior Member Join Date: October 12, 2012 Location: Wyoming Posts: 351	ethanallene perhaps this paragraph will help "Ethan had daughters but no sons. The "Company" refers to his 2 sons-in-law, Sullivan Forehand and H. C. Wadsworth. On Allen's death in 1871 they operated the company under their own names: Forehand & Wadsworth, until Forehand reorganized the company in 1890 as the Forehand Arms Company."

December 8, 2013, 09:59 AM	#4
Doc Hoy Senior Member Join Date: October 24, 2008 Location: Naples, Fl Posts: 5,440	Yep DD, I had downloaded and read the file that contains the paragraph you cited. It is helpful at understanding the transition for F&W but not in making the connection to C.W.Allen. Hawg, I am also not able to establish any connection. Just a coinkydink I guess. __________________ Seek truth. Relax. Take a breath.

December 8, 2013, 02:48 PM	#5
DD4lifeusmc Senior Member Join Date: October 12, 2012 Location: Wyoming Posts: 351	progression of Ethan allen firearms ALLEN, Ethan — Massachusetts Arms manufacturer, 1832-63. See Allen & Wheelock. ALLEN, E. & CO.— Worcester, Mass., 1856-65. See Allen & Wheelock. ALLEN, THURBER & CO.— Grafton, Mass., 1838-42. Norwich, Conn., 1842-47. See Allen & Wheelock. ALLEN & WHEELOCK— The firm was established by Ethan Allen. Massachusetts firearms maker born Sept. 2, 1806. Established himself in North Grafton about 1832, making Lambert cane- guns and rifled target pistols. In 1838 commenced manufacture of arms under his own patents, and incorporated with his brothers-in-law, Charles T. Thurber and Thomas P. Wheelock under the name Allen, Thurber & Co. The firm was well known for its pepperbox revolvers, made mostly double-action with 5 and 6 barrels, though a few were made in a larger size with 3 or 4 barrels. Also made a double-barrel pistol. In 1842 the firm moved to Norwich, Conn., and again in 1847 to Worcester, Mass. In 1857 on Thurber's retirement from the firm, the name was changed to Allen & Wheelock. Mr. Wheelock died in 1863, and in 1865, Allen's two sons-in-law, S. Forehand and H. C. Wadsworth, were admitted to the firm, which in 1866 became known as Ethan Allen & Co. Mr. Allen died in January, 1871, and the firm continued manufacture of firearms, especially revolvers, under the name Forehand and Wadsworth. During the Civil War, Allen & Wheelock employed about 200 hands. FOREHAND ARMS CO.— Worcester, Mass., 1890-1900. Renamed from Forehand & Wadsworth. Makers of revolvers and sporting rifles. Sold out to Hopkins & Allen Mfg. Co., of Norwich, Conn. See Allen & Wheelock and Forehand & Wadsworth. FOREHAND & WADSWORTH— Worcester, Mass., 1871-November, 1890. Sullivan Forehand and H. C. Wadsworth, sons-in-law of Ethan Allen of the old firm of Ethan Allen & Co., and Allen & Wheelock before that. Revolvers and sporting rifles. See Allen & Wheelock. Sullivan Forehand was born in Croyden, N. H., Oct. 10, 1831. He became connected with Allen & Wheelock in 1860, and was admitted into the firm in 1865 as a partner. Mr. Forehand died in Worcester, June 7, 1898. Henry C. Wadsworth came to Worcester at the age of 21, entered the employ of Ethan Allen, and married his daughter, Laurette. Had served nine months during the Civil War in Co. "C," 51st Massachusetts Volunteers and was discharged as Ser- geant. With Forehand, was admitted to the firm as a partner in 1865. Upon retirement from business was appointed vice-consul at Santos, Brazil, where he died of yellow fever in March, 1892. HOPKINS & ALLEN— Norwich, Conn., 1868-1915. Makers of rifles and revolvers under the Hopkins & Allen patents and Merwin None of this came from wikipedia. Now I could copy and paste the other info I found. But instead I will post the link. The first 2 or 3 pages pretty much outlines how the company came to be and the hopkins and Allen owners. http://americansocietyofarmscollecto.../B020_Berg.pdf PS It was C W Hopkins, Not CW Allen Allen was Charles H Last edited by DD4lifeusmc; December 8, 2013 at 06:16 PM. Reason: add ps

December 8, 2013, 09:05 AM	#3
Hawg Senior Member Join Date: September 8, 2007 Location: Mississippi Posts: 16,188	No relationship that I know of. Ethan had two daughters. Forehand & Wadsworth were his son in laws. DD beat me to it.