Question about Hard Cast handgun bullets

[IrvJr]

Hi All,

I've been reloading the past few years for my handguns (.44 mag/.44sp, 45 Colt, 38/357). Up till now, I've typically only used regular (i.e., not hard cast) cast lead bullets and have gotten good results. My ammo is accurate, consistent, and so far has worked reliably.

I would like to develop some hunting loads that I can use in my Win 94 Trapper (.44 mag) and in my Super Blackhawk. I am thinking about using Hunter's supply hard cast lead bullets available at Midway USA and also directly from Hunter's Supply. I am not planning to develop any super hot loads, but I would like to try at the hard cast bullets and see if they work well with my guns. Note that I don't currently plan on making any hot loads that would require a gas check to avoid leading the barrel. I would only be hunting medium-sized game with these loads (mostly deer, but hopefully some hogs in the future).

I took a look at the product info on the manufacturer's website and I noticed that the cast bullet that I am interested in (.44 caliber, hard cast semi-wadcutter, 240gr) has some type of groove on the circumference of the bullet. Here is a link to the website of the bullet that I'm interested in using,

http://www.hunters-supply.com/shop/p...roducts_id=172

Is this groove that runs the circumference of the bullet a cannelure? If so, do I need to seat the bullet so that the edge of the brass casing stops at the cannelure?

I have a set of Lee carbide dies that includes the factory resizing die. After I have loaded the hard cast bullets, should I use the factory resizing die to put a crimp in the brass casing along the grppve of the bullet or do I actually seat the bullet a little deeper, so that the groove sits below the edge of the brass?

Thanks for your help.

[LHB1]

Yes, that is a crimping cannelure. Seat the bullet and roll crimp case mouth into the cannelure. I do that in one step with my .44 Mag cast bullet loads using RCBS dies. I do NOT use the Lee Factory Sizing die on any of my loads/calibers.

[Shoney]

IrvJr

Could you clarify your comments please. Do you have the Lee carbide 3 die set that includes
* Carbide Sizing Die
* Powder Through Expanding Die
* Bullet Seat & Feed Die

or the 4 die set with
* Carbide Sizing Die
* Powder Through Expanding Die
* Bullet Seat & Feed Die
* Carbide Factory Crimp Die

With the 4 die set it is best to do each of the following in seperate steps:
resize
expand and charge
seat the bullet
crimp

[IrvJr]

Thanks folks for the replies.

To clarify, I currently use the Lee 4 die carbide set, which includes carbide sizing die, the expanding die, the bullet seating die, and the factory resizing die.

Yes, that is a crimping cannelure. Seat the bullet and roll crimp case mouth into the cannelure. I do that in one step with my .44 Mag cast bullet loads using RCBS dies. I do NOT use the Lee Factory Sizing die on any of my loads/calibers.

With this type of bullet, should I seat the bullet so that the edge of the brass casing sits in the middle cannelure?

Thanks again for your replies.

[LHB1]

Quote: "With this type of bullet, should I seat the bullet so that the edge of the brass casing sits in the middle cannelure?"

Up to you and your pistol. I usually seat mine so the case edge is near the front of cannelure.

[David Wile]

Hey Irv,

Like LHB1, I use a standard RCBS 3 die set where the third die seats and crimps the bullet in one operation. I, too, have never found any need for any of the Lee Factory Crimp Dies.

A lot of folks report that they seat and crimp their bullets in two steps instead of one. I have been loading bullets for 50 years, and I have always been able to properly seat and crimp my bullets with the same die in one step. I think the problem for a lot of folks is that they simply have never been taught how to properly adjust a regular seating and crimping die. After reading some of their posts on the subject, it is clear they have no idea of how a regular seating and crimp die works.

I also suspect that a lot of these folks are the ones who jump into reloading with a progressive press and all the bells and whistles, yet they never actually spent any time learning how to reload bullets with an experienced reloader on a single stage press. Oh, and they also don't bother to buy any manuals because they can get all they need to know from the internet. That is really a tough way to learn and an easy way to make some bad mistakes.

As far as the bullet goes that you have pictured, the dark band toward the bottom of the bullet is a grease groove (obviously filled with grease), and the thinner groove near the top of the bullet is a crimping cannelure. I cast a different gas checked bullet for my 44 Mag use, but my bullet has the same type of crimp groove near the top of the bullet. When I adjust my seating/crimping die properly, the die will roll crimp the top of the case mouth right into the top of that crimp groove. The same thing is true for my .357 Mag bullets.

Best wishes,
Dave Wile

[res45]

Sometimes a picture is worth a thousand words hope this helps. I use the built in roll crimp feature of my Lee Bullet seater die,it just requires a little tweaking to get the roll crimp and bullet seated correctly in one step but its not hard.

I believe the Lee FCD for pistols applies a taper style crimp and not a roll type crimp,they also apply a uniform roundness to the case to allow reliable feeding especially in auto loader pistols like 9mm and 45ACP etc. You need to use the roll crimp with the style of cast bullet you selected which is for a revolver or lever gun and other rimmed cartridges. Cast bullets for rimless case pistol ammo don't have the cannelure and use a taper crimp to hold the bullet firmly because they head space on the case mouth and not the rim.

I trim my cast bullet load cases ever so often so I have a nice even case mouth to crimp to,it's a PITA trying to set up a roll crimp when your case mouths are not even across.

357 Mag. 158 gr. SWC