Ak help

[Deerhunter]

I was looking to pick up a Russian AK before all the stupid happened. Of course they have gone up in price, but I am still looking. What I had my eye on was a Russian IZ 132. Here is a picture

http://www.slickguns.com/product/sai...-free-shipping

My issue is that the one pictured comes with a long front stock. I really wanted one with the short stock. Does anyone know if this is just the way the 132s come and if the fronts are replaceable?

I have also seen these tactical AKs with the adjustable butt stock and rail front end but I don't like that. I want one that looks like a standard old AK. I would prefer one with an all wood stock, but if synthetic is all that I can find I can deal with that and maybe change it out later.

Thanks for any help you can provide

[highpower3006]

I believe that all the Saiga's were imported in that configuration. If you want one that looks more traditional, you will need to convert it.

[Fishbed77]

All IZ-132s have the long Saiga handguard. There were some versions, such as the IZ-332, that had the AK-style handguards, but it's been a while since I've seen any of these for sale anywhere.

That said, don't discount the stock Saiga handguard. I converted my IZ-132 to have the AK handguards, but in all honesty, I wouldn't do it again.

The Saiga handguard is nice and long, and more ergonomic in my opinion. It's sturdy and gives you plenty of room to mount accessory rails or sling attachment points (if you are not to timid to use a drill). It also blocks heat well, despite not having metal heat shields, and covers the hot front gas block.

[Deerhunter]

I am not too worried about that stuff Fishbed. I am not going to take the thing out and shoot 1000 rounds through it. I really want one that looks like a standard AK.

I totally screwed up when I had the chance to buy a CAK 132 from Atlantic Firearms. I was trying to decide if I was going to get the CAK 132 or the Yugo N-Pap under folder or both. I decided to only get one and wait on the IZ 132 with the fixed stock. I am now kicking myself.

[Fishbed77]

The CAK 132s were nice rifles at a great price from Atlantic. If I had the cash available, I would have picked one up during the brief time they were available.

But if you really want a rifle that looks like a standard AK (or AKM), the Saiga isn't really the best place to start, since it is based on the modern AK-74/AK-100-series pattern, and has many minor differences. It can end up costing quite a lot of money to even make it look like a military AK-103.

If you want a lightweight, high-quality Russian-made AK variant with a quality chrome-lined hammer-forged barrel, and you care more about function than looks, the Saiga is an excellent choice (provided you can find one fro a reasonable price). A basic conversion to pistol grip configuration and to use AK mags is a fun project as well!




.

[Deerhunter]

I think I am going to be kicking myself for a long time for not getting one when I had the chance.

I am just trying to figure out what AK variant to start with. Like I said I have the Yugo N-Pap Under Folder so I now want a Russian AK with the full stock, not a side folder either.

The best I am seeing them in the Siaga sporter version is around $800. If it is manageable to get it to what I want that isn't bad and I can take my time with the conversion.

[iamdb]

I don't have first hand knowledge of converting Siaga's, but I know 2 people who do and both are less than thrilled with the way the guns shoots. 2 out of 2 unhappy converters is enough to make me look for something else. Have you looked into Poly Tech? I know it's not Russian, but I had a ban era version that was phenominal. Still kicking my self of course.

[Fishbed77]

I don't have first hand knowledge of converting Siaga's, but I know 2 people who do and both are less than thrilled with the way the guns shoots. 2 out of 2 unhappy converters is enough to make me look for something else..

Please elaborate on how they are unhappy.

Saigas have a reputation of being among the more accurate AKs out there, and, being new factory-manufactured rifles, are very well-built and reliable (unless they were somehow boogered up in the conversion).

[iamdb]

Both were major accuracy issues. I believe the problem in co-workers, was the barrel being slighlty larger than .311" I didn't know the other guy, just heard him whining about it. But again that's my only experience with the saiga. Purely anecdotal.

[DPris]

Have a new Interarms here, have not fired it yet, but everything checks out on it.
Red wood.
Denis

[jaytothekizzay]

Get a wasr... standard as they come

[Fishbed77]

But again that's my only experience with the saiga. Purely anecdotal.

And highly atypical as well.

[Webleymkv]

I like my Saiga .223 quite a lot and am glad I bought it. That being said, I got mine well before the '08 panic when they were running about $300 all day long. At today's prices, I'm really not sure they're the way to go if you want to convert it to be set up like a standard AK. Right now, you're looking at at least $600 for the base rifle in sporter configuration with no pistol grip, long handguard, no muzzle attachements/bayo lug, and set up for proprietary 10-round mags. By the time you buy a new buttstock, pistol grip, fire control group (trigger, hammer, disconnector), shepherd's hook or retainer plate, handguards, gas tube (necessary for AK handguards), handguard retainer, front sight block, muzzle brake/flash hider, bullet guide, and have the barrel threaded you'd have just as much, if not more money in the project than you would if you'd just bought one of the higher-end AK's like an Arsenal which will already be set up the way you want to begin with.

Now, you can set up a Saiga to something in between sporter and true AK configuration much cheaper, but you have to make a few compromises. I did mine for about $150 but all I did was convert it to a pistol grip with a standard fixed buttstock. I did change the handguard nor did I set it up for a muzzle attachment or install a bullet guide (no point in the bullet guide for me as SGM Tactical 30-round .223 Saiga mags are reliable and cheaper than good .223 AK mags, with a 7.62 the bullet guide would be worth it though).

[iamdb]

Yikes! For that price you could get a milled ak. I didn't know they cost so much now. I almost got a saiga 12ga for $399 a few years back. But I was unfamiliar with the brand at the time. Looked cheaply made.

[Deerhunter]

Interesting Webleymkv

I am wondering how places like Atlantic Firearms have/ (had now) converted Siagas for under $900. As I said in my first post I am kicking myself because I could have gotten the Russian CAK132 for under $900 before this whole ban mess happened. I am having a tough time understanding how the conversion parts cost so much. I understand that the Saigas have gone up in price but I don't understand how the conversion would be so much.

[Webleymkv]

I am wondering how places like Atlantic Firearms have/ (had now) converted Siagas for under $900. As I said in my first post I am kicking myself because I could have gotten the Russian CAK132 for under $900 before this whole ban mess happened. I am having a tough time understanding how the conversion parts cost so much. I understand that the Saigas have gone up in price but I don't understand how the conversion would be so much.

A big part of it is that Atlantic and similar outfits can buy bulk quantities of parts at wholesale prices in order to bring their overall costs down. For example, most AK's on the market now use Tapco G2 FCG's. Tapco doesn't sell G2 FCG's directly to the public but rather through distributors like Midway or Brownell's. These distributors then mark up the price of the FCG and sell it to the public. Atlantic, or any other large operation, most likely buys their parts directly from Tapco and thus "cuts out the middleman" or perhaps more accurately becomes the middleman so that they don't have to pay the distributor's markup. Likewise, I'm sure Tapco gives a significant discount to someone wanting to buy several thousand G2's than someone just wanting one or two.

Also, 922r factors into the equation too. Since 1989, it has been illegal to import and sell a complete AK rifle unless it is modified to a "non-assault weapon" sporter configuration like an unconverted Saiga. All non-sporter AK's legally sold in the U.S. since that time have had a certain number of specific parts replaced with U.S.-made parts in order to become, legally, U.S.-made guns. This law has created a situation which makes U.S.-made parts more desirable and thus more expensive than imported parts because, for the most part, they don't have to compete with the cheaper prices of the imported parts.

Also, some of the specific compliance parts are easier to swap than others. A large firm like Atlantic which is doing hundreds or thousands of conversions is likely already set up with the proper equipment and technicians to make replacing a part like a barrel or gas piston no big deal, but you or I doing so with hand tools in our garage is quite another matter entirely. The producers of U.S.-made compliance parts know this and thus the more easily replaceable parts like furniture and FCG's are sold at a premium because there is more demand for them.

Finally, while I don't know about Atlantic specifically, you do have to be somewhat careful about pre-converted rifles if you want to be able to use surplus magazines. Magazine bodies, followers, and floorplates count as compliance parts and some commercial converters use U.S.-made followers and floorplates, or even entire magazines, to get them under the magic number of imported parts. While this makes the rifles legal to sell, the moment you or I inserts an imported magazine without these compliance parts into the gun we have, in the eyes of the law, manufactured an illegally imported assault weapon and are now felons. One of the advantages of a 7.62x39 AK, as I see it, is the wide availability and low price of surplus magazines so doing a Saiga conversion that cannot legally use surplus mags makes little sense to me.

Like I said before, if you're not worried about having a rifle set up just like a Russian military AK (sans the select-fire capability of course) you can get something relatively close to an AK for a fairly reasonable price through a Saiga Conversion. All I did to mine was basically convert it from the sporter stock to a fixed stock and pistol grip by adding a U.S.-made stock, pistol grip, trigger, hammer, and disconnector. My conversion gives me a rifle which is more compact, and to my mind useful, than the sporter configuration it came in without excessive expense and I'm still legal to use either SGM Tactical U.S.-made mags or the original Russian-made mags. If, however, I wanted a rifle set up like a true military AK, I'd just buy a rifle already set up that way because it would probably cost the same or less than converting a sporter-configuration Saiga and I wouldn't have to go through the trouble of converting it myself.

[Deerhunter]

Thanks for all the info. I knew about the 922r. One of those things I read up on before I bought the Yugo N-Pap.

I guess I have a lot to think about.