Interesting situation- refinish, or not, based on value and sale price

Chris_B · March 29, 2009, 05:43 PM

Moderators please delete thread

dahermit · March 29, 2009, 06:16 PM

If I were looking to buy such a pistol, its value would be as an example of an origianal classic. If I had the choice between the one pictured and a re-blue, no matter how good the job, I would be only interested in the original. Unless severly damaged finish, I cannot see how refinishing would do anything except lower the value.

Chris_B · March 29, 2009, 06:23 PM

Thank you for the opinion dahermit but I am not asking if you would buy it or why you might pass it up instead of buying it, rather, I am interested in:

what you feel the value is in the current condition, and

what value you feel would be lost when refinished

Sorry to confuse you with the long post earlier; I understand how originality is seen by many people, I was in the collector car hobby for many years and I understand what restoration does for originality

Casimer · March 29, 2009, 06:57 PM

these are the going prices for a 1903 on GunBroker..
http://www.gunbroker.com/Auction/Sea...CountryCode=++

Chris_B · March 29, 2009, 07:46 PM

Thank you Casimer. Gunbroker is one of the places I used to determine a value range for various conditions prior to my purchase.

I am not trying to determine what my pistol is worth o that I can have an idea of what I have and if I paid a fair price. I already know I did. I am not sure how I am confusing people with what I am asking.

I want your opinion on two things:

What do you think this pistol is worth right now based on what I've told you and what you see, and what type of damage to the value of the pistol would be suffered when I have it refinished?

That's all I'm asking

**JohnKSa** · March 29, 2009, 08:46 PM

A collectible gun is worth what a collector will pay for it. If it is refinished, typical collectors will no longer be interested in it. That is, it's no longer a collector's item, it's just a "shooter" that happens to be old. "Shooter" value is always less than collectible value, how much less depends on a lot of things.

In an extreme case, something as simple as polishing part of the gun to remove rust freckling could drop the value by several hundred dollars. For another example, if your gun were a U.S. property marked 1903 with a blued finish, refinishing it would drop the collector value by 50%.

In this particular case since the gun in question is already pretty rough, (might already be considered nothing better than a shooter--I say 'might' because I'm certainly not an expert on the particular pistol under review) refinishing might not hurt the value much. In other words, if the gun is ALREADY a shooter (no collector value) then refinishing probably won't hurt the value at all.

The only way to make sure, would be to consult with a knowledgeable collector prior to having the gun refinished. If there's something about the gun that makes it special (unusual marking or configuration) then it could still have collector value and if it does, that value will be diminished by a refinish.

Chris_B · March 29, 2009, 08:57 PM

Thank you John.

I can see that this will go nowhere, and that no amount of re-phrasing my words here or discussing the subject will convince anyone that I actually have an idea of what collectible and valuable things are and how to determine how to identify them.

Sorry to have wasted everyone's time

darrentxs · March 29, 2009, 09:31 PM

..

Casimer · March 30, 2009, 11:32 AM

Why exactly did you post here then?

I understood your question, but you haven't provided enough information to make an informed estimate. If you're familiar with Colts, then you recognize that their prices tend to be sensitive to factors beyond their presentation condition. For instance, there are multiple issues and configurations of 1903, and the prices for these can vary considerably.

That's why I'd posted a link to current GB auctions. I'm not your personal research service.

Also Chris, when you post to a public forum, you have to accept that people aren't obliged to do your bidding. If you want an expert appraisal, find a firearms appraiser. Or at least post to a forum where people are likely to have some expertise in old Colt semi's - this is a gunsmithing forum.

Chris_B · March 30, 2009, 04:31 PM

I am posting for the sole reason that I do not see a personal message function on this forum

I carefully and fully explained myself Casimer, in my initial post

And then I thanked you for your input when you replied. I can hardly be held responsible for your misconceptions regarding this thread; you misunderstood and I re-defined my intent for you in other terms, and still this was not good enough for you. Now you feel you must take it upon yourself to try to teach me a lesson in what a public forum is for? You are out of line

Please take your desire for a confrontation somewhere else

dahermit · March 30, 2009, 04:39 PM

Your gun is in "average" condition. If I saw it in a gun store, and the price was about $300 or slightly less, I would be tempted (as a classic antique). If the gun was reblued, I would only be tempted it the price was about $175.00(as just a very old shooter).

musher · March 30, 2009, 04:59 PM

Quote:

What do you think this pistol is worth right now based on what I've told you and what you see, and what type of damage to the value of the pistol would be suffered when I have it refinished?

Your pistol is worth $265.34 right now.
If you have it refinished it will be worth $153.22

Of course, my opinion is worth what you paid for it.

**JohnKSa** · March 30, 2009, 06:10 PM

Quote:

...I actually have an idea of what collectible and valuable things are and how to determine how to identify them.

If you are an expert on old Colt pistols (or have consulted one) then this makes perfect sense in light of the specific question. Otherwise it doesn't.

If you are an expert on these pistols then you should have said so as that changes the situation completely.

Quote:

I am posting for the sole reason that I do not see a personal message function on this forum.

Click on a person's name (to the left of their post) and you'll see an option to PM that person.

The other way to PM is to look near the upper right corner of the forum webpage (anywhere in TFL, scroll to the top of the window and look over to the right hand side) and click on the Private Messages notation.

Casimer · March 30, 2009, 06:22 PM

I'm not trying to teach you a lesson Chris.

What motivated me to post my comments to you was this..

Quote:

I can see that this will go nowhere, and that no amount of re-phrasing my words here or discussing the subject will convince anyone that I actually have an idea of what collectible and valuable things are and how to determine how to identify them.

Which I think is a rather rude way of responding to the people who'd tried to help you. And please don't PM me. I'm not interested in hashing this out with you.

Chris_B · March 31, 2009, 11:09 AM

Thanks John- didn't see it. But you know very well what this was about, I don't see why you'd reply that way as you already know what's what here and what I was doing.

Casimer it's not required that you like me or what I say

But when I thank people and then apologize for wasting their time, I don't expect to be further taken to task and I'll be damned if I'm going to called to heel over thanking people and apologizing. You very conveniently left out the part where I apologize in your quote

Let it go or don't, but this is your problem, not mine

Any further problems with me or this thread should be brought to a Moderator with a request to ban me. I apologized once and that's all you get

Chris out

March 29, 2009, 05:43 PM	#1
Chris_B Senior Member Join Date: February 9, 2007 Posts: 3,101	Interesting situation- refinish, or not, based on value and sale price Moderators please delete thread Last edited by Chris_B; March 29, 2009 at 09:01 PM.

March 29, 2009, 08:46 PM	#6
JohnKSa Staff Join Date: February 12, 2001 Location: DFW Area Posts: 24,969	A collectible gun is worth what a collector will pay for it. If it is refinished, typical collectors will no longer be interested in it. That is, it's no longer a collector's item, it's just a "shooter" that happens to be old. "Shooter" value is always less than collectible value, how much less depends on a lot of things. In an extreme case, something as simple as polishing part of the gun to remove rust freckling could drop the value by several hundred dollars. For another example, if your gun were a U.S. property marked 1903 with a blued finish, refinishing it would drop the collector value by 50%. In this particular case since the gun in question is already pretty rough, (might already be considered nothing better than a shooter--I say 'might' because I'm certainly not an expert on the particular pistol under review) refinishing might not hurt the value much. In other words, if the gun is ALREADY a shooter (no collector value) then refinishing probably won't hurt the value at all. The only way to make sure, would be to consult with a knowledgeable collector prior to having the gun refinished. If there's something about the gun that makes it special (unusual marking or configuration) then it could still have collector value and if it does, that value will be diminished by a refinish. __________________ Do you know about the TEXAS State Rifle Association?

March 29, 2009, 09:31 PM	#8
darrentxs Senior Member Join Date: May 5, 2007 Location: Dallas, TX Posts: 401	.. __________________ Happy Trails to You Last edited by darrentxs; March 29, 2009 at 11:08 PM.

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March 29, 2009, 06:16 PM	#2
dahermit Senior Member Join Date: October 28, 2006 Location: South Central Michigan...near Posts: 6,501	If I were looking to buy such a pistol, its value would be as an example of an origianal classic. If I had the choice between the one pictured and a re-blue, no matter how good the job, I would be only interested in the original. Unless severly damaged finish, I cannot see how refinishing would do anything except lower the value.

March 29, 2009, 06:23 PM	#3
Chris_B Senior Member Join Date: February 9, 2007 Posts: 3,101	Thank you for the opinion dahermit but I am not asking if you would buy it or why you might pass it up instead of buying it, rather, I am interested in: what you feel the value is in the current condition, and what value you feel would be lost when refinished Sorry to confuse you with the long post earlier; I understand how originality is seen by many people, I was in the collector car hobby for many years and I understand what restoration does for originality

March 29, 2009, 06:57 PM	#4
Casimer Senior Member Join Date: April 23, 2007 Location: Pennsylvania, USA Posts: 1,918	these are the going prices for a 1903 on GunBroker.. http://www.gunbroker.com/Auction/Sea...CountryCode=++

March 29, 2009, 07:46 PM	#5
Chris_B Senior Member Join Date: February 9, 2007 Posts: 3,101	Thank you Casimer. Gunbroker is one of the places I used to determine a value range for various conditions prior to my purchase. I am not trying to determine what my pistol is worth o that I can have an idea of what I have and if I paid a fair price. I already know I did. I am not sure how I am confusing people with what I am asking. I want your opinion on two things: What do you think this pistol is worth right now based on what I've told you and what you see, and what type of damage to the value of the pistol would be suffered when I have it refinished? That's all I'm asking

March 29, 2009, 08:57 PM	#7
Chris_B Senior Member Join Date: February 9, 2007 Posts: 3,101	Thank you John. I can see that this will go nowhere, and that no amount of re-phrasing my words here or discussing the subject will convince anyone that I actually have an idea of what collectible and valuable things are and how to determine how to identify them. Sorry to have wasted everyone's time

March 30, 2009, 11:32 AM	#9
Casimer Senior Member Join Date: April 23, 2007 Location: Pennsylvania, USA Posts: 1,918	Why exactly did you post here then? I understood your question, but you haven't provided enough information to make an informed estimate. If you're familiar with Colts, then you recognize that their prices tend to be sensitive to factors beyond their presentation condition. For instance, there are multiple issues and configurations of 1903, and the prices for these can vary considerably. That's why I'd posted a link to current GB auctions. I'm not your personal research service. Also Chris, when you post to a public forum, you have to accept that people aren't obliged to do your bidding. If you want an expert appraisal, find a firearms appraiser. Or at least post to a forum where people are likely to have some expertise in old Colt semi's - this is a gunsmithing forum.

March 30, 2009, 04:31 PM	#10
Chris_B Senior Member Join Date: February 9, 2007 Posts: 3,101	I am posting for the sole reason that I do not see a personal message function on this forum I carefully and fully explained myself Casimer, in my initial post And then I thanked you for your input when you replied. I can hardly be held responsible for your misconceptions regarding this thread; you misunderstood and I re-defined my intent for you in other terms, and still this was not good enough for you. Now you feel you must take it upon yourself to try to teach me a lesson in what a public forum is for? You are out of line Please take your desire for a confrontation somewhere else

March 30, 2009, 04:39 PM	#11
dahermit Senior Member Join Date: October 28, 2006 Location: South Central Michigan...near Posts: 6,501	Your gun is in "average" condition. If I saw it in a gun store, and the price was about $300 or slightly less, I would be tempted (as a classic antique). If the gun was reblued, I would only be tempted it the price was about $175.00(as just a very old shooter).

March 31, 2009, 11:09 AM	#15
Chris_B Senior Member Join Date: February 9, 2007 Posts: 3,101	Thanks John- didn't see it. But you know very well what this was about, I don't see why you'd reply that way as you already know what's what here and what I was doing. Casimer it's not required that you like me or what I say But when I thank people and then apologize for wasting their time, I don't expect to be further taken to task and I'll be damned if I'm going to called to heel over thanking people and apologizing. You very conveniently left out the part where I apologize in your quote Let it go or don't, but this is your problem, not mine Any further problems with me or this thread should be brought to a Moderator with a request to ban me. I apologized once and that's all you get Chris out