When is leading considered "excessive?"

TargetTerror · May 22, 2008, 07:39 AM

What is the general consensus on when leading is considered excessive or unacceptable. I realize that any gun/ammo combination will lead to a certain degree, much as jacketed ammo will leave copper fouling.

I was shooting my SBH 44 with some new 240gr bullets I loaded up. It seemed to be getting some small traces of lead in the 1/2 half of the barrel (by the muzzle) after shooting maybe 25 rounds (at which point my transfer bar stopped working correctly, but that is another story. I honestly don't remember if my other loads lead to this degree or not, but there is usually some lead in the barrel for me to clean.

rwilson452 · May 22, 2008, 08:05 AM

The simple answer is, when accuracy falls off.

Quote:

When is leading considered "excessive?"
What is the general consensus on when leading is considered excessive or unacceptable. I realize that any gun/ammo combination will lead to a certain degree, much as jacketed ammo will leave copper fouling.

I was shooting my SBH 44 with some new 240gr bullets I loaded up. It seemed to be getting some small traces of lead in the 1/2 half of the barrel (by the muzzle) after shooting maybe 25 rounds (at which point my transfer bar stopped working correctly, but that is another story. I honestly don't remember if my other loads lead to this degree or not, but there is usually some lead in the barrel for me to clean.

DMZX · May 22, 2008, 08:27 AM

What kind of bullets are you shooting, at what speeds?

For example I shoot Hornady 240 gr LSWC @ ~850 fps.

SL1 · May 22, 2008, 08:45 AM

I think you are saying that you are getting leading in the muzzle end of the barrel, but not the rear of the barrel, forcing cone or cylinder chamber throats.

If that is the case, it is probably due to a lube failure. You may need more lube or a better lube. If you have not filled all of the lube grooves, fill another one. If you are already using all grooves, then try something like LBT lube.

SL1

Sevens · May 22, 2008, 10:07 AM

Three things happen when you lead up a barrel. (well, probably MORE, but these are the 3 things I care most about)

--accuracy can fall off
--pressures can rise
--it can be a real mother effer to remove

So for me and my guns, if I can see it, it's "excessive". I see it when there are obvious strips of lead sitting in the grooves of the barrel. When I see it, I want it out. I want it out before pressures rise, and I want it out before it gets even tougher to remove.

If I'm noticeably leading my barrel in 50 or 100 rounds, I need to take a long hard look at the quality or sizing of my bullets, or the muzzle velocity of the load.

Sigma 40 Blaster · May 22, 2008, 05:37 PM

I think everyone else hit it on the head.

Having a couple of lead "splotches" is one thing but having lead trails all the way up the barrel is a completely different matter. Spending more than ten minutes getting that lead out is also too much in my opinion.

My rule of thumb is after 100 rounds I should be able to clean the bore with just solvent and patches.

I finally broke down and cleaned my XD .45 after about 1500 rounds and had exactly two lead spots to get off (used 5.4 grains of 231, pretty stiff load). They both were removed after a very leisurely pass through of a bore brush.

WESHOOT2 · May 24, 2008, 12:52 PM

1) If it affects function in any way.

2) If it affects accuracy negatively.

Scorch · May 24, 2008, 04:56 PM

Simple answer:
ANY leading is excessive. The question should be stated "how much leading should I tolerate?" instead. If you are having problems with leading, figure out why (excessive velocity for the bullet or lube used, rough bore, poor bullet-bore fit, dead soft bullet, powder flame temp too hot) and fix the problem. If you tolerate leading, it continues to get worse until you take drastic measures to remove it, then it will start again as soon as you start shooting again. If you address the problem, you will never have to know what a Lewis Lead Remover is.

WESHOOT2 · May 25, 2008, 12:25 AM

What about conditioning shots?

May 22, 2008, 07:39 AM	#1
TargetTerror Senior Member Join Date: October 28, 2006 Posts: 424	When is leading considered "excessive?" What is the general consensus on when leading is considered excessive or unacceptable. I realize that any gun/ammo combination will lead to a certain degree, much as jacketed ammo will leave copper fouling. I was shooting my SBH 44 with some new 240gr bullets I loaded up. It seemed to be getting some small traces of lead in the 1/2 half of the barrel (by the muzzle) after shooting maybe 25 rounds (at which point my transfer bar stopped working correctly, but that is another story. I honestly don't remember if my other loads lead to this degree or not, but there is usually some lead in the barrel for me to clean. __________________ Head shots are hard, but nut shots are twice as hard.

May 22, 2008, 10:07 AM	#5
Sevens Senior Member Join Date: July 28, 2007 Location: Ohio Posts: 11,756	Three things happen when you lead up a barrel. (well, probably MORE, but these are the 3 things I care most about) --accuracy can fall off --pressures can rise --it can be a real mother effer to remove So for me and my guns, if I can see it, it's "excessive". I see it when there are obvious strips of lead sitting in the grooves of the barrel. When I see it, I want it out. I want it out before pressures rise, and I want it out before it gets even tougher to remove. If I'm noticeably leading my barrel in 50 or 100 rounds, I need to take a long hard look at the quality or sizing of my bullets, or the muzzle velocity of the load. __________________ *Attention Brass rats and other reloaders:* I really need .327 Federal Magnum brass, no lot size too small. Tell me what caliber you need and I'll see what I have to swap. PM me and we'll discuss.

May 22, 2008, 05:37 PM	#6
Sigma 40 Blaster Senior Member Join Date: July 1, 2007 Location: East Texas Posts: 997	I think everyone else hit it on the head. Having a couple of lead "splotches" is one thing but having lead trails all the way up the barrel is a completely different matter. Spending more than ten minutes getting that lead out is also too much in my opinion. My rule of thumb is after 100 rounds I should be able to clean the bore with just solvent and patches. I finally broke down and cleaned my XD .45 after about 1500 rounds and had exactly two lead spots to get off (used 5.4 grains of 231, pretty stiff load). They both were removed after a very leisurely pass through of a bore brush. Last edited by Sigma 40 Blaster; May 22, 2008 at 11:20 PM.

May 24, 2008, 12:52 PM	#7
WESHOOT2 Senior Member Join Date: February 20, 1999 Location: home on the range; Vermont (Caspian country) Posts: 14,324	"excessive" 1) If it affects function in any way. 2) If it affects accuracy negatively. __________________ . "all my ammo is mostly retired factory ammo"

May 24, 2008, 04:56 PM	#8
Scorch Senior Member Join Date: February 13, 2006 Location: Washington state Posts: 15,248	Simple answer: ANY leading is excessive. The question should be stated "how much leading should I tolerate?" instead. If you are having problems with leading, figure out why (excessive velocity for the bullet or lube used, rough bore, poor bullet-bore fit, dead soft bullet, powder flame temp too hot) and fix the problem. If you tolerate leading, it continues to get worse until you take drastic measures to remove it, then it will start again as soon as you start shooting again. If you address the problem, you will never have to know what a Lewis Lead Remover is. __________________ Never try to educate someone who resists knowledge at all costs. But what do I know? Summit Arms Services

May 22, 2008, 08:27 AM	#3
DMZX Senior Member Join Date: June 6, 2007 Location: E. Oregon Posts: 563	What kind of bullets are you shooting, at what speeds? For example I shoot Hornady 240 gr LSWC @ ~850 fps.

May 22, 2008, 08:45 AM	#4
SL1 Senior Member Join Date: November 8, 2007 Posts: 2,001	I think you are saying that you are getting leading in the muzzle end of the barrel, but not the rear of the barrel, forcing cone or cylinder chamber throats. If that is the case, it is probably due to a lube failure. You may need more lube or a better lube. If you have not filled all of the lube grooves, fill another one. If you are already using all grooves, then try something like LBT lube. SL1

May 25, 2008, 12:25 AM	#9
WESHOOT2 Senior Member Join Date: February 20, 1999 Location: home on the range; Vermont (Caspian country) Posts: 14,324	well... What about conditioning shots? __________________ . "all my ammo is mostly retired factory ammo"