Lee Classic Turret - sloppy fit?

higgite · July 7, 2011, 10:49 AM

I've been reading reviews about the Redding T-7 turret press. It looks like it's built like a tank. Some folks mentioned turret tilt up to .004". Some claim no more than .001" tilt. Being curious (okay, I'll admit it, OCD-ish), I measured the "slop" on my Lee Classic Turret with a feeler gauge. Three different turret heads measured .011", .014" and .015" movement, respectively, when they were pushed up from the bottom. I'm still fairly new at reloading, but I know the LCT is good to go for plinking ammo, both pistol and rifle. But is that too much slop for target rifle ammo, or am I just obsessing again?

mikejonestkd · July 7, 2011, 11:37 AM

The turrets lift the same amount each time, so its the repeatability of the lift height that is important. All turrets and progressive flex or lift a bit with each stroke of the arm, and they all are pretty good at repeatability. I wouldn't worry about it.

Since you mentioned your measurements on different turrets, I'll expand my answer - each turret is set with a specific set of dies, and once you have them set in that particular turret, the amount of individial turret lift is already factored into the settings of the die/ turret combo.

Don P · July 7, 2011, 11:46 AM

Nothing to worry about with the dies being set correctly for over all length (OAL) the rise will be the same for all the rounds. Mine moves also and all is well with regards to function and OAL.

mikld · July 7, 2011, 12:06 PM

Yep, no problem, really. As the fellows above say, the "slop" is repeatable so the end product is the same. BUT, now that you know that there is so much movement, your "OCD" won't let you forget that every time you apply presure on the plate, it'll move up to 15 thousandths of an inch!

LarryFlew · July 7, 2011, 02:44 PM

Use an older Lee turret with 4 different turrets. "lift" is a lot but consistent every time. Have not reset a die in years.

cracked butt · July 7, 2011, 04:52 PM

Quote:

But is that too much slop for target rifle ammo,

Nope.

flashhole · July 7, 2011, 05:46 PM

Think of the movement as float, not slop, and liken it to the Forster approach that uses a "floating" die capture mechanism. The excess movement allows the dies to be self centering and can actually improve concentricity of the loaded round. I have one handgun and 6 rifles, they all get loaded on the Classic Turret. I check condentricity of the loaded rounds (I have OCD too) and am happy to report the Classic Turret makes exceptional ammo. I just added my second Classic Turret to the reloading room, that's how much I like it.

wncchester · July 7, 2011, 05:56 PM

Fact is, it's possible to produce very high quality ammo on any press but it's a bit easier to do it on a rigid single stage. The ONLY way to get any sense of how much a turret or any other press deflects during loading is to put a dial indicator on top of the dies (the sizer anyway) during loading.

Lee's head retention system is a whole different thing from any other turrets. The loose heads easily lift under light pressure until they hit a hard stop and that's it; repeatable. On the other hand, a center held turret head will lift/deflect progressively more as ram pressure is applied; less repeatable.

FrankenMauser · July 7, 2011, 07:33 PM

Quote:

On the other hand, a center held turret head will lift/deflect progressively more as ram pressure is applied; less repeatable.

So long as the pressure is the same with each stroke, the repeatability is exactly the same as the Lee design. Only short-stroking the ram will cause variances... And that's not a recommended practice, anyway.

My T-7 tilts less than 0.001". As far as anyone should be concerned, the only movement is vertical "float" on the center pivot (the amount of which varies with each, individual press). ....Just like the Lee. The massive Turret Head on my T-7 exhibits zero measurable deflection. (Measurements taken while sizing horribly over-sized .243 Win, in a Redding FL sizing die, and an RCBS Small-Base die - for added stress

; as well as .30-06 MG brass, in an RCBS FL sizing die.)

I get more deflection in the ram of my Rock Chucker, than I get tilt of the Turret Head on the T-7. And my Dillon 550 has enough "slop" in the ram, to seem shameful.

There are two ways to look at "sloppy" tolerances in reloading presses:
1. Proper adjustment of your dies and/or shell holder will make up for it.
2. There's nothing you can do about it.

4½. There's a lot more misalignment, deflection, and flex in most presses, than nearly all reloaders realize.

In my opinion, having the die bore and threads cut square to the ram is far more important than the flex and deflection seen in some presses.

Lost Sheep · July 7, 2011, 09:37 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by wncchester

(truncated for brevity)
Lee's head retention system is a whole different thing from any other turrets. The loose heads easily lift under light pressure until they hit a hard stop and that's it; repeatable. On the other hand, a center held turret head will lift/deflect progressively more as ram pressure is applied; less repeatable.

Turret heads on center post turrets are (most of them that I have seen) supported at the center and at the back (diametrically opposite of the ram's position). This is a lot more support than support only at the center pivot.

I will grant you that the Lee (supported around the periphery and, more importantly, having the two posts in the front positioned to give good, stiff support to the front of the ring is superior in stiffness and alignment, but not for the reason you cite, I think.

Respectfully,

Lost Sheep

higgite · July 7, 2011, 11:17 PM

Thanks, folks. Y'all make a lot of sense and just saved me $250.
.
.
While I say to myself... Now, what else can I spend that money on?

wncchester · July 8, 2011, 08:23 AM

"I get more deflection in the ram of my Rock Chucker, than I get tilt of the Turret Head on the T-7."

I wonder how you measured that?

"And my Dillon 550 has enough "slop" in the ram, to seem shameful."

Knowledgable precision reloaders understand that a bit of ram slop is actually an assest to accuracy. It allows the cases to freely self-align with the die during entry. Any tiny errors between the die and press are meaningless unless the ram fit is so tight it forces a bend in the case.

"Turret heads on center post turrets are (most of them that I have seen) supported at the center and at the back (diametrically opposite of the ram's position). This is a lot more support than support only at the center pivot."

True, but totally irrelivant to what I said. Note that I ONLY referenced the common turret head retention method, I was not giving a treatise on the total design of conventional turret presses as a class.

FrankenMauser · July 8, 2011, 02:07 PM

Quote:

"I get more deflection in the ram of my Rock Chucker, than I get tilt of the Turret Head on the T-7."

I wonder how you measured that?

With a precision instrument, of course.

Think, "really big hammer, and a yard stick".

July 7, 2011, 10:49 AM	#1
higgite Senior Member Join Date: October 21, 2010 Posts: 1,025	Lee Classic Turret - sloppy fit? I've been reading reviews about the Redding T-7 turret press. It looks like it's built like a tank. Some folks mentioned turret tilt up to .004". Some claim no more than .001" tilt. Being curious (okay, I'll admit it, OCD-ish), I measured the "slop" on my Lee Classic Turret with a feeler gauge. Three different turret heads measured .011", .014" and .015" movement, respectively, when they were pushed up from the bottom. I'm still fairly new at reloading, but I know the LCT is good to go for plinking ammo, both pistol and rifle. But is that too much slop for target rifle ammo, or am I just obsessing again?

July 7, 2011, 11:37 AM	#2
mikejonestkd Senior Member Join Date: January 3, 2006 Location: Brockport, NY Posts: 3,717	The turrets lift the same amount each time, so its the repeatability of the lift height that is important. All turrets and progressive flex or lift a bit with each stroke of the arm, and they all are pretty good at repeatability. I wouldn't worry about it. Since you mentioned your measurements on different turrets, I'll expand my answer - each turret is set with a specific set of dies, and once you have them set in that particular turret, the amount of individial turret lift is already factored into the settings of the die/ turret combo. __________________ You are the bows from which your children as living arrows are sent forth.

July 7, 2011, 11:46 AM	#3
Don P Senior Member Join Date: December 17, 2005 Location: Swamp dweller Posts: 6,187	Nothing to worry about with the dies being set correctly for over all length (OAL) the rise will be the same for all the rounds. Mine moves also and all is well with regards to function and OAL. __________________ *NRA Life Member, NRA Chief Range Safety Officer, NRA Certified Pistol Instructor,, USPSA & Steel Challange NROI Range Officer, ICORE Range Officer, ,MAG 40 Graduate* *As you are, I once was, As I am, You will be.*

July 7, 2011, 12:06 PM	#4
mikld Senior Member Join Date: February 7, 2009 Location: Southern Oregon! Posts: 2,891	Yep, no problem, really. As the fellows above say, the "slop" is repeatable so the end product is the same. BUT, now that you know that there is so much movement, your "OCD" won't let you forget that every time you apply presure on the plate, it'll move up to 15 thousandths of an inch! __________________ My Anchor is holding fast! I've learned how to stand on my own two knees...

July 7, 2011, 05:46 PM	#7
flashhole Senior Member Join Date: February 9, 2005 Location: Owego, NY Posts: 2,000	Think of the movement as float, not slop, and liken it to the Forster approach that uses a "floating" die capture mechanism. The excess movement allows the dies to be self centering and can actually improve concentricity of the loaded round. I have one handgun and 6 rifles, they all get loaded on the Classic Turret. I check condentricity of the loaded rounds (I have OCD too) and am happy to report the Classic Turret makes exceptional ammo. I just added my second Classic Turret to the reloading room, that's how much I like it. __________________ ,,, stupidity comes to some people very easily. 8/22/2017 my wife in a discussion about Liberals. Are you ready for civil war?

July 7, 2011, 02:44 PM	#5
LarryFlew Senior Member Join Date: June 15, 2009 Location: Minnesota CZ fan Posts: 902	Use an older Lee turret with 4 different turrets. "lift" is a lot but consistent every time. Have not reset a die in years.

July 7, 2011, 05:56 PM	#8
wncchester Senior Member Join Date: December 1, 2002 Posts: 2,832	Fact is, it's possible to produce very high quality ammo on any press but it's a bit easier to do it on a rigid single stage. The ONLY way to get any sense of how much a turret or any other press deflects during loading is to put a dial indicator on top of the dies (the sizer anyway) during loading. Lee's head retention system is a whole different thing from any other turrets. The loose heads easily lift under light pressure until they hit a hard stop and that's it; repeatable. On the other hand, a center held turret head will lift/deflect progressively more as ram pressure is applied; less repeatable.

July 7, 2011, 11:17 PM	#11
higgite Senior Member Join Date: October 21, 2010 Posts: 1,025	Thanks, folks. Y'all make a lot of sense and just saved me $250. . . While I say to myself... Now, what else can I spend that money on?

July 8, 2011, 08:23 AM	#12
wncchester Senior Member Join Date: December 1, 2002 Posts: 2,832	"I get more deflection in the ram of my Rock Chucker, than I get tilt of the Turret Head on the T-7." I wonder how you measured that? "And my Dillon 550 has enough "slop" in the ram, to seem shameful." Knowledgable precision reloaders understand that a bit of ram slop is actually an assest to accuracy. It allows the cases to freely self-align with the die during entry. Any tiny errors between the die and press are meaningless unless the ram fit is so tight it forces a bend in the case. "Turret heads on center post turrets are (most of them that I have seen) supported at the center and at the back (diametrically opposite of the ram's position). This is a lot more support than support only at the center pivot." True, but totally irrelivant to what I said. Note that I ONLY referenced the common turret head retention method, I was not giving a treatise on the total design of conventional turret presses as a class.