Leaving gun for defense

[jman841]

I am trying to figure out what to do and was wondering if i could get some opinions to help with my decision.

Tomorrow i am flying to Mass to go back to college and leaving my Glock 19 and AR-15 down here as they are not legal in the state of mass. Having said that, my mother and sister are still living here as my dad is working up in mass at our house there until he can find a job down here. We live right outside of a dangerous neighbor hood where house break ins are fairly common. I am concerned about the safety of my sister and mom and am wondering if i should leave them my glock for protection.

My predicament is that my mother has never fired a weapon in her life even though i have urged her to come with me multiple times, and my sister has fired firearms, however, not my glock yet.

I have instructed both of them on the use of it as it is rather simple and wish I had some time to take them to the range with me so they could learn to use it properly.

I was thinking about leaving it somewhere that my mom can access it with a loaded magazine in it but not a round in the chamber.

Do you think it is a good idea to leave it for them to access even without having much shooting experience, or is it better to leave it locked up and have them rely on the police in case of a break in?

BTW we live in Florida so if someone break's in the house the castle law allows for defensive usage.

[Iron Man]

Better for her to have it and not need it than need it and not have it. I would get her one of those individual safes, mount it somewhere both can access it cocked, locked, and ready to rock. Make it simple like a disposable camera...point and shoot. The safe will also help prevent a BG from getting their hands on it and using it against them.

[Mello2u]

I get the impression that your mother has little to no handgun training. Shooting targets is only a start. How much training do you have that you can impart to her? Knowing Florida's laws on self-defense and use of deadly force, and actually training in simulated defensive scenarios (time pressure at a minimum) is a start.

I suggest you consider whether your mother would be competent with your Glock in a highly stressful situation. Training might be what is needed before she is ready to use deadly force to defend your sister and herself. Talk to her about whether she wants a handgun for her use. Talk about getting some training.

I have seen people who think they know how to shoot a handgun scare the hell out of me with their lack of muzzle control, always putting their finger on the trigger, and general lack of situational awareness. Some people are more of a danger to themselves and others with a handgun because they lack training, lack proper safety habits, a proper defensive mindset, and have unrealistic expectations about what to do with a handgun in a defensive situation.

[jman841]

Mello, that is exactly my fear, I don't think she would take it out for any other reason than if she felt threatened, however, she has very limited experience with firearms. On one hand i want her to have it in case she needs it, on the other, will/could it possibly more a danger by her having and and not having enough training to use it properly than to not have it at all?

Florida's laws on self defense within the home are pretty clear. If you feel your life is in danger within your home, deadly force is authorized, you may not be persecuted legally or sued civilly.

http://licgweb.doacs.state.fl.us/wea...f_defense.html

and http://www.gunlaws.com/FloridaCastleDoctrine.htm

But her lack of training is my main concern.

[Eagle0711]

Your'e sort of between a rock and a hard place.

Any chance of a family friend taking her to a range and going over basics and the safety procedures?

[Capt. Charlie]

I'm in the same boat with my sister, jman . My sister's in her late 60's and lives in the worst part of town. I loaned her one of my handguns, but she has absolutely no desire to even shoot it, let alone train.

I thought long and hard on the decision to loan her the gun. What it boiled down to was an evaluation of her personality. She's a retired RN and not prone to get excited when things go south, plus she's intelligent and tends to think things through before acting, but I've no doubt she WILL act if necessary.

If she were flighty or excitable, or if I thought she'd stand frozen in fear while an intruder took it off of her, I wouldn't have extended the offer.

I suggest that, if you can't use that as the primary factor in your decision, at least make that part of it.

[Vermonter]

Suggestion one is to leave it for both women to take it to a class that way they or whichever one of them is interested can become proficient and safe with the weapon. I understand that she may not go to the range 2 times per week but if you and your father impart on them your concern and explain the importance of proper safety training I am sure they would listen.

The other option is a good security system and less lethal protection options. Blunt objects, mace, pepper spray, tazer maybe.

Finally I would suggest a long gun if there is one available for a home defense situation. The long gun provides less of an opportunity for for a lack of muzzle awareness and a better chance of accuracy.

Vermonter

[real2all1]

Well that is a problem, What do you do? Well for starters don't leave the weapon there. The Glock is a very sensitive weapon and even well trained people have been known to accidentally fire the weapon in various circumstances. The common saying where I work is that the "Glock" is a very safe weapon, even more so that other weapons. I happen to disagree, there is something called "Human Error" and that can make a almost safe firearm not safe at all anymore. In my opinion there is nothing safe having the safety on the actual trigger, especially with a round in the chamber and a inexperience person holding the firearm.
I had a friend that accidentally shot himself in the leg and died from the gun shot wound. The round went right through both the main veins that run along the inside and outer thigh of the leg. He bled out in minutes, and there was no way to save him. He barely managed to radio for help.
I believe that everyone should own a firearm and keep it for the use of defence. But giving a weapon to an inexperience person in my opinion is the equivalent of giving a two year old child a loaded weapon. Time and training is the only way to make sure the person with the firearm will be able to use the weapon. There is no guarantee that this is going to make everything better when it comes to firearms and situations. There is no easy answer to this question but at least your trying to address the issue.

[.22lr]

Verify that what you want to do is legal in your state. Make your decision once you are fully informed. Don't assume.

Have an open and honest discussion with them. Make it clear that this is an important topic to you and that you want thier honest feelings.

Respect thier decision. This one is hard if they do not want a firearm. The issue cannot be forced.

Should they decide that they want it, they should recieve, PROFESSIONAL training. I am not attacking any member's competency or teaching ability, but sometimes its easier to learn from a stranger. NRA has many good programs. "women on target" recieved great reviews from both my mother and wife.

Other members have made good suggestions as to Non Gun solutions. I feel the most helpful are:
-exterior lighting
-alarm system
-dog
-SOLID doors with Solid frames, properly installed with a quality deadbolt (I really think this is the most important)

[jimbob86]

If you leave it, lock it up. If they want access to it, get a Gunvault or some such.

If it is to be for home defense, it needs to be loaded and accessable.

[retiredcoasty]

Do you have a valid permit to own a firearm in Massachusetts? I believe that your firearms are not illegal here in Massachusetts. The list of ‘illegal’ firearms is actually a list of firearms that Gun Shops have agreed to not sell to the public. So, if you already have them and you have a current permit, I believe they are legal to own.

Contact GOAL: Gun Owner’s Action League. They are in Northboro MA and will be able to tell you whether my beliefs are correct or misunderstand the ‘rule’. You can also find them at www.goal.org.

[Bulldawg55]

If I was in your predicament, I'd stay wth Mom and Sis till your Dad can escape from Mass.!

[ncpatriot]

How about getting them each a simple single barrel 20 g shotgun, about 20 inch barrel. Not ideal, but far better than nothing & simple to use. If you have the $, a side by side or over/under double. Get them some light load shells, for smaller kick. Not best ammo but again, better than nothing & better to hit with a light load than get kicked over with a heavy one. Singles can be had for about $100.
A .22 revolver would also be easy to shoot, with light recoil. Do you have good shops with used guns? Might find some bargains. Best wishes on that. I know the concern for your loved ones.

[jhenry]

Get them some big honking cans of OC spray and lock the guns up if you can't take them with you. They are much more likely to use OC than a gun from what I gather. It is better that they have an option they will actually use than a better option they are not familiar with, are unlikely to use, and can be taken from them.

[WANT A LCR 22LR]

A automatic probably isn't the best choice for someone who has never fired a gun as there is just to much stuff to to to make it work and with the light trigger to easy for a AD. It's kind of like putting someone on a backhoe when they have never even run a lawn tractor.

Better than nothing, yes, but a better long term solution is needed. ( Revolver short term then maybe automatic )

[jman841]

Wow, thanks for all the reply's... I am back in mass now and unfortunetly a Florida permit is not valid in mass and in order to get an out of state permit it is a 100 dollar fee that is only good for one year, I could have brought it up and kept it with my uncle who lives in CT and has a large safe and permit but I will be busy during the semester anyways so i figured just leave it down there. My AR is also staying there because of the mass assault weapons ban... I have my bolt action here as my FID car is still valid and rifles are allowed in the state for target purposes.

I did not want to leave the AR-15 out cause the manual of arms on it is much more complicated, I ended up putting the glock in its case, leaving a loaded mag in it but no round in the chamber. I showed my mom how to load it if she felt she needed it but we do have a dog, and alarm system, and lights set up around the house. I understand this is not the most optimal solution having her try to load a round into the chamber if she did need it, however, if she has to rack the slide first than she knows that the weapon is hot and is intending to use it so hopefully it will help protect against any ND's. I would love for her to take a class and will talk to her about it. Because of the dog and alarm i highly doubt anyone will continue to attempt to break in the house, however, given the advanced notice of someone breaking in, she should have enough time to get the gun and rack the slide. I made her practice that portion multiple times before i left.

Again, this is not the optimal solution, however, it is the best i could come up with given the situation and limited time.

Do you think it would have been better to leave the AR-15 locked and loaded for defense? It is much more forgiving to improper shooting techniques and ND's are much less difficult with an AR-15.

[Mello2u]

jman841,

A possible starting point for instruction is:
http://www.nrainstructors.org/searchcourse.aspx

The above link is to the website to find a NRA course in your area.

I suggest starting your mother with the Basic Pistol Course.

For example if you are in the 32836 zip code of Orlando, put that in the search criteria and you get three courses for basic pistol which have a range of fees from $95 to $130.

Name : NRA Basic Pistol Shooting Course
Short Description : Teaches the basic knowledge, skills, and attitude for owning and operating a pistol safely.