1923 DWM COMMERCIAL LUGER $950 should i buy?

jsust · February 13, 2015, 03:24 AM

The pawn shop near me is selling this luger and im thinking about buying it. I do not know much about lugers but upon research it seems like a fair price. is it a good buy?

mapsjanhere · February 13, 2015, 10:32 AM

If all the numbers are matching and there's decent finish left it's a good price. If the numbers are mismatched and it's refinished it's too high.

**44 AMP** · February 13, 2015, 12:37 PM

I'm by no means a Luger expert, but I do have the Standard Catalog of Luger (Davis 2006), and I can find no listing for a DWM 1923 Commercial model.

Guns listed as 1923 models are the "safe & loaded" (rare, 7,000 made), the 1923 Stoeger American Eagle (very rare less than 1,000 made), the 1923 Stoeger "safe & loaded" (included in the American Eagle number), the 1923 Finnish Military contract, (approx. 6,500 made) and the 1923 Swedish contract (less than 1,000 made).

I can not find anything that precisely matches the specs in the linked picture.

If the gun is a 1920 Commercial model (which just happens to be dated 1923) it is a very common gun, and in VG condition was listed at $1,000 and good at $650 (2006 prices).

$950 in today's dollars for an all matching number, original finish good or better, Luger is a very good deal. If the gun has been refinished, and/or does not have ALL matching numbers, its only a fair deal, in my opinion.

Better answers on current value can be found with the Luger experts on Luger collector web sites.

I bought a reblued, mismatched 1936 gun (which looks brand new) for $750, but that was over 5 years ago. At the shows, "shooter" Lugers are around $1,000 currently (which is high), but, it's a seller's market. (and they tend to hang around at those prices,

)

Good luck!

RickB · February 13, 2015, 06:58 PM

I have heard of "1923" Lugers, but was never clear about how they differed from a '20? Different serial range? No military parts? Dunno.

JT-AR-MG42 · February 13, 2015, 08:18 PM

No expert either.

Photo you post (I cannot enlarge them) shows stocks that do not seem to be original.
At least the lines? that look to be either a start on a re-checkering job or a
form of skip-line checkering.
Not original IMHO.

Also, I would have expected to see a stamped/wood bottom magazine with it rather than the later
WW II milled/aluminum base magazine shown.

Guess I would have to yard it apart to go number hunting
(and want to mess with a 'shooter' in .30 cal.)
before spending my dough on that one, but that's just me.

You probably already checked, but ammo is relatively spendy (like 25 bucks a box).
If you are figuring to be re-loading for it,
bullets and cases are not regularly stocked items at most stores.

Good luck with your decision,
JT

James K · February 13, 2015, 11:16 PM

The gun Kenyon and others call the "1923 Commercial" was made by DWM for commercial sale in Germany and foreign markets, mainly the U.S. Some intended for the U.S. market have the "SAFE" and "LOADED" markings in English, rather than in German; those bring a premium.

All are 7.65 Parabellum caliber (not 7.65 Browning, a much smaller cartridge) because German arms makers were prohibited in that period from making guns in the 9mm military caliber.

Proof marks are standard commercial and serial numbers run five digits in the 73500-96000 range and are in the standard commercial locations. The chamber top is unmarked; the DWM trademark is on the toggle.

Unlike the "1920 Commercial" guns many of which were reworked military pistols, the "1923 Commercials" seem to be newly made.

The original magazine would be the folded sheet metal with a wood bottom piece. The grips appear to be either home made or worked on.

Jim

RickB · February 14, 2015, 11:51 AM

I handload for my '20, and while it's a real hassle compared to loading a straight-walled round, it's better than paying a dollar a round, or whatever loaded ammo costs.
You really need only one source, one time, for brass. Finding bullets of the correct .309"-.310" diameter is more problematic. I've pushed .311"-.312" bullets through a .309" sizer with excellent results.

**44 AMP** · February 14, 2015, 09:03 PM

How is it different from any other bottle neck case? Simpler than loading for a strait case I would think?

spacecoast · February 15, 2015, 12:25 PM

Aside from the "Safe and Loaded" guns mentioned by James K and 44 Amp (one correction, there were ~ 2,000 made, current documented serial# range 89,734 to 91,511), the "Alphabet" 1920s Commercial Lugers numbered about 100,000 and were made from ~1920 to about 1928. They have suffix letters visible on the front of the frame starting with "i" running up through about "r". You could infer production in 1923 with about a "m" suffix or so.

The gun pictured above (not very well) does appear to have grip issues. If it's a common 1920s Commercial, all matching and correct, it's probably a $1000 gun. Before buying a Luger, I recommend you join the Luger forums (luger.gunboards.com and lugerforum.com) and draw on the wealth of knowledge available. There are good tutorials at each site that will verse you in the basics of Luger variations and where to look for the serial numbers, full and partial. The commercials didn't have as many locations to examine. Note - if you would like to shoot it, .30 cal ammo is expensive and not that easy to find. Even brass and bullets are in fairly short supply.

A serial number would really help nail down what this is and what it might be worth as a first Luger.

Here are a couple of post-WWI Commercial Lugers in .30 cal:

~1921 commercial #9377k. This one shoots very nicely.

1923 Safe and Loaded #89934,

Que · February 17, 2015, 09:40 AM

As has already been stated, Lugers produced during this period were required to be in 7.65 Parabellum. In addition to that barrels had to be shorter as is the case with this gun at 3 5/8".

Would I buy this gun? Kind of hard to know from the photos. But, in general, if it was to be my only Luger I'd probably pass. I would want a more standard one with a standard length barrel and in 9mm. If I was planning on owning a number of Lugers I might grab it as it isn't all that common of a gun. But, either way, it would require a full inspection and one needs to know what they are looking for. They also need to know what they want, a shooter or a collector's gun. Either way, these days $950 is pretty much entry level except for basket cases.

RickB · February 17, 2015, 04:35 PM

Quote:

How is it different from any other bottle neck case? Simpler than loading for a strait case I would think?

Straight case: Clean and load.
Bottle neck case: Clean, lube, resize, clean, trim, deburr, then load.

I have so much time and energy into my .30 Luger cases that I've named each one.

James K · February 17, 2015, 07:23 PM

First, the 9mm Parabellum (9mm Luger) is not a straight case, it is tapered.
Second, to get proper tension on the bullet, you have to resize the 9mm also, though you usually will not have to trim.

The .30 Luger is pretty easy to reload. Unless the loads are quite hot, the cases will not stretch enough to require trimming.

Jim

**44 AMP** · February 17, 2015, 11:34 PM

Quote:

Straight case: Clean and load.

Assuming you have carbide dies, and you are including the flaring of the case mouth as part of "load".

I load a number of bottleneck cases. And several strait cases, and those called "strait" but that are actually tapered.

And while I don't load for .30 Luger, I don't see it being any different than any other bottlenecked case.

If you have to trim (and deburr) every time, you aren't doing something right. CHECK length every time, sure. Trim only when needed.

Yes, straight cases are so much easier, that's why the die sets have 3 (or 4) dies, instead of the 2 used for bottleneck cases.

James K · February 17, 2015, 11:54 PM

If you want a cartridge that is tough to load, try a .25 ACP! I had to make a "tool" out of a wooden clothes pin to handle the little case.

Jim

**44 AMP** · February 18, 2015, 11:49 AM

I don't load for .25acp, but I do for .32ACP. The small cases are a pain, but not as much of a pain as .22 Hornet! Hornet brass seems paper thin at the mouth, and is very easily damaged/deformed.

Just out of curiosity, what would you give for this one? It's a 1936 s/42.

James K · February 18, 2015, 07:32 PM

It looks to be reblued and the grips are plastic replacements. Without a matching magazine, I would say it is worth $1000 or so, maybe more or less depending on the prospective buyers. It is basically a shooter.

Jim

**44 AMP** · February 19, 2015, 01:47 AM

Yes, its a shooter, reblued (I was told it was done by the factory during the war - riiiiigt..

), sideplate is mismatched, mag is replacement. Note all the straw color has been blued...and the grips..well..yeah..

But isn't it pretty???

in fact, that's what my wife said, as I came out of the show where I got it.
"what did you get, this time?" frowns, taps foot...

I open the box and show her..
"ohh, PRETTY!"

I was thinking about a grand. Seems like you can't hardly find Lugers (including very poor ones) for much less these days.

crazy charlie · February 19, 2015, 06:12 AM

Way too much $.
Just saw a shooter grade 9mm, engraved, re-blued go for $650. It was a good looking pistol, re-blue done nicely.
I'd follow the suggestions other posters have given and keep looking.

**44 AMP** · February 19, 2015, 11:36 AM

Quote:

Just saw a shooter grade 9mm, engraved, re-blued go for $650. It was a good looking pistol, re-blue done nicely.

One gun, right? reblued, and engraved? Somebody loved that gun. One shop I know had a beautiful AC43 P-38 with a matching, original correct holster. It was on consignment, and the asking price was $900.

The only problem was that while it was a decent price for a top quality specimen with all the correct accessories, the gun in the shop had, at some time, been professionally nickel plated. It was a very good job, and 100% intact, but....that rig wasn't worth near that much nickled.

There are still deals out there, a gun here, another there. If you are patient, and shop around a lot, you can still find them. But you won't find many.

Another shop I know had a .30 American Eagle, no finish left at all, hardly, and they wanted $1300! The people who know what Lugers are worth are hugely outnumbered by the people who think they know what Lugers are worth!

James K · February 19, 2015, 09:20 PM

The problem is that Luger prices are all over the lot, which is why I don't really like to give a value on them. And of course, any value I do give, like the BB value and others) is retail, what a dealer might sell the gun for, not what one can get out of it from a dealer.

IMHO, that $650 is pretty low, even for a shooter grade; near junkers bring more than that around here. Of course engraving, in most cases, lessens the value, as do plating, rebluing, mismatched parts, Franzite and similar grips, and damage due to "repair" attempts. It is hard for folks today to realize that after WWII, a Luger would sell for around $10, maybe $12 with a belt and holster. (P.38's were $5.) $10 then was equivalent to maybe $350 today, so Lugers beat the inflation curve. Sure makes one wish for a time machine!

Jim

**44 AMP** · February 20, 2015, 01:31 AM

Lugers for $19.95 and GI 1911A1s for $24.95 in the ads in the back of 1950s magazines. (or maybe it was the other way around, I don't remember exactly anymore).

Amazing how the last generation's left over junk is our priceless collectible, isn't it?

And Lugers aren't, and never were junk. Not the pinnacle of development today, more like an evolutionary dead end, mechanically. But there is a special thing about them.

Still one of the most widely recognized pistols of all time, and if someone put one in a popular video game, they might even stay that way for another generation!

James K · February 20, 2015, 09:32 PM

I remember watching at a gun show as a friend looked at a near new 1860 Army Colt. The owner was a man who believed nothing made after 1900 was worthy of even discussing, let alone collecting. My friend eyed the Colt and remarked, "When you've seen one piece of war surplus junk, you've seen them all." The owner nearly had apoplexy on the spot.

Jim

Que · February 21, 2015, 11:44 AM

I have to agree that it is very difficult to value a Luger based on some photos on the Net. It's the same thing with buying a Luger on the Internet. There are some very reputable dealers but you tend to pay a premium for the reassurance of their expertise. And, they do make mistakes from time to time. I hear time after time from some of the experts that the very best way is to purchase a Luger is in person. They even admit that they have been burned on occasion when buying online, and these are experts. I waited for years until the right one presented itself locally.

I'd have to say that 44 AMP's 1936 Mauser would be a good gun for lots of folks. It's a shooter so if a part breaks you aren't agonizing over it. You don't need cotton gloves to handle it. Plus, it still bears all of it's history. I found a Luger that was affordable to me ($850) that I look at similarly. A 1938 S/42 with 95 percent original finish, all matching except the hold open lever, and the knob on the takedown lever was broken off which I have since replaced with an unnumbered part. The grips were aftermarket as was the mag. I have since replaced the grips with very nice WWII originals and have obtained a period correct mag. I have maybe $1100 into the gun which some might consider too much for a shooter, but it's a darn nice shooter. By examining the gun in person I was able to assess what I would need to put into the gun to make it right. Even the best and most complete Internet photos don't tell the whole story.

So, intending to only own one Luger, I ended up with exactly what I wanted. A shooter in mostly original condition in overall excellent condition. Paying the premium for a collector grade gun wasn't what I wanted. I think that is the first question that a prospective Luger owner must answer: will the gun be shot?

The Luger has been a grail gun since I was a kid (I'm 56) since I first saw one watching Combat in the Sixties. At first after finally obtaining one, the search over, it was sort of a letdown, but I got over that really quickly. But I have one grail gun left, a Broomhandle, and that search has begun.

**44 AMP** · February 22, 2015, 12:19 PM

I've never shot a Broomhandle in .30 Mauser, so, I cannot say, for certain, BUT I did own a Bolo Broomhandle that had been converted to 9mm Luger for many years. I only shot it once. Standard AmEagle red box 9mm ball.

It was the MOST PAINFUL 9mm I have ever fired, and I've fired a LOT of different ones.

When you do get your grail Broomhandle, if you plan to shoot it, WEAR A GLOVE!!!!

Seriously, the odd, small grip shape, combined with the large slot for the stock really bites your hand (at least in 9mm). Be warned!

Que · February 22, 2015, 01:30 PM

Thanks 44 AMP. I have read that they are not the most pleasant shooters. Ergonomics were not the concern of the day.

Many of my grail guns have been a direct extension of being a yute in the 60's and 70's (I'm 56). I collected Model Replica guns. I've since acquired real versions of those replicas: Luger, PPK, P38, HSc, 1911, M1934, S&W Model 19. Only two left to go, the Broomhandle and the MP40. With an affordable MP40 in 9mm on the horizon it will be a race between that and the Broomhandle (probably a Bolo). I will own it more to own it than shoot it.

February 13, 2015, 10:32 AM	#2
mapsjanhere Senior Member Join Date: August 6, 2009 Location: Albuquerque Posts: 2,832	If all the numbers are matching and there's decent finish left it's a good price. If the numbers are mismatched and it's refinished it's too high. __________________ I used to love being able to hit hard at 1000 yards. As I get older I find hitting a mini ram at 200 yards with the 22 oddly more satisfying.

February 13, 2015, 12:37 PM	#3
44 AMP Staff Join Date: March 11, 2006 Location: Upper US Posts: 28,832	I'm by no means a Luger expert, but I do have the Standard Catalog of Luger (Davis 2006), and I can find no listing for a DWM 1923 Commercial model. Guns listed as 1923 models are the "safe & loaded" (rare, 7,000 made), the 1923 Stoeger American Eagle (very rare less than 1,000 made), the 1923 Stoeger "safe & loaded" (included in the American Eagle number), the 1923 Finnish Military contract, (approx. 6,500 made) and the 1923 Swedish contract (less than 1,000 made). I can not find anything that precisely matches the specs in the linked picture. If the gun is a 1920 Commercial model (which just happens to be dated 1923) it is a very common gun, and in VG condition was listed at $1,000 and good at $650 (2006 prices). $950 in today's dollars for an all matching number, original finish good or better, Luger is a very good deal. If the gun has been refinished, and/or does not have ALL matching numbers, its only a fair deal, in my opinion. Better answers on current value can be found with the Luger experts on Luger collector web sites. I bought a reblued, mismatched 1936 gun (which looks brand new) for $750, but that was over 5 years ago. At the shows, "shooter" Lugers are around $1,000 currently (which is high), but, it's a seller's market. (and they tend to hang around at those prices, ) Good luck! __________________ All else being equal (and it almost never is) bigger bullets tend to work better.

February 18, 2015, 11:49 AM	#15
44 AMP Staff Join Date: March 11, 2006 Location: Upper US Posts: 28,832	I don't load for .25acp, but I do for .32ACP. The small cases are a pain, but not as much of a pain as .22 Hornet! Hornet brass seems paper thin at the mouth, and is very easily damaged/deformed. Just out of curiosity, what would you give for this one? It's a 1936 s/42. __________________ All else being equal (and it almost never is) bigger bullets tend to work better.

February 19, 2015, 01:47 AM	#17
44 AMP Staff Join Date: March 11, 2006 Location: Upper US Posts: 28,832	Yes, its a shooter, reblued (I was told it was done by the factory during the war - riiiiigt..), sideplate is mismatched, mag is replacement. Note all the straw color has been blued...and the grips..well..yeah.. But isn't it pretty??? in fact, that's what my wife said, as I came out of the show where I got it. "what did you get, this time?" frowns, taps foot... I open the box and show her.. "ohh, PRETTY!" I was thinking about a grand. Seems like you can't hardly find Lugers (including very poor ones) for much less these days. __________________ All else being equal (and it almost never is) bigger bullets tend to work better.

February 20, 2015, 01:31 AM	#21
44 AMP Staff Join Date: March 11, 2006 Location: Upper US Posts: 28,832	Lugers for $19.95 and GI 1911A1s for $24.95 in the ads in the back of 1950s magazines. (or maybe it was the other way around, I don't remember exactly anymore). Amazing how the last generation's left over junk is our priceless collectible, isn't it? And Lugers aren't, and never were junk. Not the pinnacle of development today, more like an evolutionary dead end, mechanically. But there is a special thing about them. Still one of the most widely recognized pistols of all time, and if someone put one in a popular video game, they might even stay that way for another generation! __________________ All else being equal (and it almost never is) bigger bullets tend to work better.

February 13, 2015, 06:58 PM	#4
RickB Senior Member Join Date: March 1, 2000 Location: Boise, ID Posts: 8,518	I have heard of "1923" Lugers, but was never clear about how they differed from a '20? Different serial range? No military parts? Dunno.

February 13, 2015, 08:18 PM	#5
JT-AR-MG42 Senior Member Join Date: December 27, 2008 Posts: 555	No expert either. Photo you post (I cannot enlarge them) shows stocks that do not seem to be original. At least the lines? that look to be either a start on a re-checkering job or a form of skip-line checkering. Not original IMHO. Also, I would have expected to see a stamped/wood bottom magazine with it rather than the later WW II milled/aluminum base magazine shown. Guess I would have to yard it apart to go number hunting (and want to mess with a 'shooter' in .30 cal.) before spending my dough on that one, but that's just me. You probably already checked, but ammo is relatively spendy (like 25 bucks a box). If you are figuring to be re-loading for it, bullets and cases are not regularly stocked items at most stores. Good luck with your decision, JT

February 13, 2015, 11:16 PM	#6
James K Member In Memoriam Join Date: March 17, 1999 Posts: 24,383	The gun Kenyon and others call the "1923 Commercial" was made by DWM for commercial sale in Germany and foreign markets, mainly the U.S. Some intended for the U.S. market have the "SAFE" and "LOADED" markings in English, rather than in German; those bring a premium. All are 7.65 Parabellum caliber (not 7.65 Browning, a much smaller cartridge) because German arms makers were prohibited in that period from making guns in the 9mm military caliber. Proof marks are standard commercial and serial numbers run five digits in the 73500-96000 range and are in the standard commercial locations. The chamber top is unmarked; the DWM trademark is on the toggle. Unlike the "1920 Commercial" guns many of which were reworked military pistols, the "1923 Commercials" seem to be newly made. The original magazine would be the folded sheet metal with a wood bottom piece. The grips appear to be either home made or worked on. Jim

February 14, 2015, 11:51 AM	#7
RickB Senior Member Join Date: March 1, 2000 Location: Boise, ID Posts: 8,518	I handload for my '20, and while it's a real hassle compared to loading a straight-walled round, it's better than paying a dollar a round, or whatever loaded ammo costs. You really need only one source, one time, for brass. Finding bullets of the correct .309"-.310" diameter is more problematic. I've pushed .311"-.312" bullets through a .309" sizer with excellent results.

February 14, 2015, 09:03 PM	#8
44 AMP Staff Join Date: March 11, 2006 Location: Upper US Posts: 28,832	How is it different from any other bottle neck case? Simpler than loading for a strait case I would think? __________________ All else being equal (and it almost never is) bigger bullets tend to work better.

February 15, 2015, 12:25 PM	#9
spacecoast Senior Member Join Date: October 14, 2009 Location: Sunshine and Keystone States Posts: 4,461	Aside from the "Safe and Loaded" guns mentioned by James K and 44 Amp (one correction, there were ~ 2,000 made, current documented serial# range 89,734 to 91,511), the "Alphabet" 1920s Commercial Lugers numbered about 100,000 and were made from ~1920 to about 1928. They have suffix letters visible on the front of the frame starting with "i" running up through about "r". You could infer production in 1923 with about a "m" suffix or so. The gun pictured above (not very well) does appear to have grip issues. If it's a common 1920s Commercial, all matching and correct, it's probably a $1000 gun. Before buying a Luger, I recommend you join the Luger forums (luger.gunboards.com and lugerforum.com) and draw on the wealth of knowledge available. There are good tutorials at each site that will verse you in the basics of Luger variations and where to look for the serial numbers, full and partial. The commercials didn't have as many locations to examine. Note - if you would like to shoot it, .30 cal ammo is expensive and not that easy to find. Even brass and bullets are in fairly short supply. A serial number would really help nail down what this is and what it might be worth as a first Luger. Here are a couple of post-WWI Commercial Lugers in .30 cal: ~1921 commercial #9377k. This one shoots very nicely. 1923 Safe and Loaded #89934,

February 17, 2015, 09:40 AM	#10
Que Senior Member Join Date: January 20, 2008 Location: Georgia Posts: 912	As has already been stated, Lugers produced during this period were required to be in 7.65 Parabellum. In addition to that barrels had to be shorter as is the case with this gun at 3 5/8". Would I buy this gun? Kind of hard to know from the photos. But, in general, if it was to be my only Luger I'd probably pass. I would want a more standard one with a standard length barrel and in 9mm. If I was planning on owning a number of Lugers I might grab it as it isn't all that common of a gun. But, either way, it would require a full inspection and one needs to know what they are looking for. They also need to know what they want, a shooter or a collector's gun. Either way, these days $950 is pretty much entry level except for basket cases.

February 17, 2015, 07:23 PM	#12
James K Member In Memoriam Join Date: March 17, 1999 Posts: 24,383	First, the 9mm Parabellum (9mm Luger) is not a straight case, it is tapered. Second, to get proper tension on the bullet, you have to resize the 9mm also, though you usually will not have to trim. The .30 Luger is pretty easy to reload. Unless the loads are quite hot, the cases will not stretch enough to require trimming. Jim

February 17, 2015, 11:54 PM	#14
James K Member In Memoriam Join Date: March 17, 1999 Posts: 24,383	If you want a cartridge that is tough to load, try a .25 ACP! I had to make a "tool" out of a wooden clothes pin to handle the little case. Jim

February 18, 2015, 07:32 PM	#16
James K Member In Memoriam Join Date: March 17, 1999 Posts: 24,383	It looks to be reblued and the grips are plastic replacements. Without a matching magazine, I would say it is worth $1000 or so, maybe more or less depending on the prospective buyers. It is basically a shooter. Jim

February 19, 2015, 06:12 AM	#18
crazy charlie Senior Member Join Date: February 29, 2008 Location: PA Posts: 229	Way too much $. Just saw a shooter grade 9mm, engraved, re-blued go for $650. It was a good looking pistol, re-blue done nicely. I'd follow the suggestions other posters have given and keep looking.

February 19, 2015, 09:20 PM	#20
James K Member In Memoriam Join Date: March 17, 1999 Posts: 24,383	The problem is that Luger prices are all over the lot, which is why I don't really like to give a value on them. And of course, any value I do give, like the BB value and others) is retail, what a dealer might sell the gun for, not what one can get out of it from a dealer. IMHO, that $650 is pretty low, even for a shooter grade; near junkers bring more than that around here. Of course engraving, in most cases, lessens the value, as do plating, rebluing, mismatched parts, Franzite and similar grips, and damage due to "repair" attempts. It is hard for folks today to realize that after WWII, a Luger would sell for around $10, maybe $12 with a belt and holster. (P.38's were $5.) $10 then was equivalent to maybe $350 today, so Lugers beat the inflation curve. Sure makes one wish for a time machine! Jim

February 20, 2015, 09:32 PM	#22
James K Member In Memoriam Join Date: March 17, 1999 Posts: 24,383	I remember watching at a gun show as a friend looked at a near new 1860 Army Colt. The owner was a man who believed nothing made after 1900 was worthy of even discussing, let alone collecting. My friend eyed the Colt and remarked, "When you've seen one piece of war surplus junk, you've seen them all." The owner nearly had apoplexy on the spot. Jim

February 21, 2015, 11:44 AM	#23
Que Senior Member Join Date: January 20, 2008 Location: Georgia Posts: 912	I have to agree that it is very difficult to value a Luger based on some photos on the Net. It's the same thing with buying a Luger on the Internet. There are some very reputable dealers but you tend to pay a premium for the reassurance of their expertise. And, they do make mistakes from time to time. I hear time after time from some of the experts that the very best way is to purchase a Luger is in person. They even admit that they have been burned on occasion when buying online, and these are experts. I waited for years until the right one presented itself locally. I'd have to say that 44 AMP's 1936 Mauser would be a good gun for lots of folks. It's a shooter so if a part breaks you aren't agonizing over it. You don't need cotton gloves to handle it. Plus, it still bears all of it's history. I found a Luger that was affordable to me ($850) that I look at similarly. A 1938 S/42 with 95 percent original finish, all matching except the hold open lever, and the knob on the takedown lever was broken off which I have since replaced with an unnumbered part. The grips were aftermarket as was the mag. I have since replaced the grips with very nice WWII originals and have obtained a period correct mag. I have maybe $1100 into the gun which some might consider too much for a shooter, but it's a darn nice shooter. By examining the gun in person I was able to assess what I would need to put into the gun to make it right. Even the best and most complete Internet photos don't tell the whole story. So, intending to only own one Luger, I ended up with exactly what I wanted. A shooter in mostly original condition in overall excellent condition. Paying the premium for a collector grade gun wasn't what I wanted. I think that is the first question that a prospective Luger owner must answer: will the gun be shot? The Luger has been a grail gun since I was a kid (I'm 56) since I first saw one watching Combat in the Sixties. At first after finally obtaining one, the search over, it was sort of a letdown, but I got over that really quickly. But I have one grail gun left, a Broomhandle, and that search has begun.

February 22, 2015, 12:19 PM	#24
44 AMP Staff Join Date: March 11, 2006 Location: Upper US Posts: 28,832	I've never shot a Broomhandle in .30 Mauser, so, I cannot say, for certain, BUT I did own a Bolo Broomhandle that had been converted to 9mm Luger for many years. I only shot it once. Standard AmEagle red box 9mm ball. It was the MOST PAINFUL 9mm I have ever fired, and I've fired a LOT of different ones. When you do get your grail Broomhandle, if you plan to shoot it, WEAR A GLOVE!!!! Seriously, the odd, small grip shape, combined with the large slot for the stock really bites your hand (at least in 9mm). Be warned! __________________ All else being equal (and it almost never is) bigger bullets tend to work better.

February 22, 2015, 01:30 PM	#25
Que Senior Member Join Date: January 20, 2008 Location: Georgia Posts: 912	Thanks 44 AMP. I have read that they are not the most pleasant shooters. Ergonomics were not the concern of the day. Many of my grail guns have been a direct extension of being a yute in the 60's and 70's (I'm 56). I collected Model Replica guns. I've since acquired real versions of those replicas: Luger, PPK, P38, HSc, 1911, M1934, S&W Model 19. Only two left to go, the Broomhandle and the MP40. With an affordable MP40 in 9mm on the horizon it will be a race between that and the Broomhandle (probably a Bolo). I will own it more to own it than shoot it.