Biggest "***" range session ever.

lilcris · January 12, 2013, 06:01 PM

I bought a 1911 EMP 9mm last September and have been going to the range every two weeks with it. Besides a recoil spring malfunction (sent off to Springfield to be fixed), the gun has performed almost flawlessly through 400-500 rounds.

Today I shot one 50 round box and probably experienced 30-35 total malfunctions. It failed to feed almost every round (the slide would lock back and I'd have to rack again), I had 2-3 stovepipes, and my slide would fail to lock at the end of several clips. Perhaps most annoyingly, my husband experienced far fewer of these problems when he tried my gun. The gun had just been cleaned and we used Fiocchi ammo for the first time today. In the past we have used PMC and Magtech. Any ideas what could be causing this many failures?

We also tried out my brand-new Ruger MKIII 22/45. I liked the gun in general, but I was surprised by how cheap the magazine appeared to be. I had a hard time loading the magazine at the correct angle, figuring out when the magazine was completely seated and sometimes I had a hard time getting the bullets to load into the chamber. This makes me feel like an idiot. Are there better aftermarket magazines out there or does it just take more finesse?

Finally, I tried my husband's .45 for the first time today (Springfield 1911 Trophy Match). My groupings were far better on the .45, which is a little more powerful than my 9mm and a little too big for my hands, than they have ever been with my 9mm. This seems very very very odd to me. Any idea why I might shoot better with a .45? I would totally steal my husband's gun if the grips weren't so aggressive and uncomfortable.

Thanks!

lyodbraun · January 12, 2013, 06:25 PM

Prob cause you were using clips instead of magazine's to feed the gun.. those clips will cause all sorts of problems

Vermonter · January 12, 2013, 06:29 PM

In general if one person is having an issue with malfunctions in a semi auto and someone else is able to run the same gun with fewer instances of the malfunctions you could be limp wristing.

I have no knowledge of your Ruger mags.

Regards, Vermonter

musher · January 12, 2013, 06:36 PM

Quote:

we used Fiocchi ammo for the first time today

And therein lies your problem with the EMP, I would guess. Try your regular ammo and see if the problem goes away.

berettaprofessor · January 12, 2013, 06:45 PM

Sounds like the Fiocchi is a little weak for your gun. It worked better with your husband probably because his grip is a little stronger and allowed the weak round to perform at it's maximum in terms of locking the slide back. Try it again with your regular loads.

You're shooting better with the 45 likely because a) it's longer-barreled than the EMP, so you have a longer sight radius (more accuracy), and b) it may just fit your hand a little better, gripwise or otherwise.

kahrguy · January 12, 2013, 06:49 PM

For your ruger make your self something like this- http://www.amazon.com/Ruger-Mark-Mag.../dp/B002R1DIQS

It will help you to load very easily. There most be a dozen types and makes out there . Ours has no name but must be 25 years old now. The rugers mags my look cheap buy they will work just finework . There not made for speed loading but there are heavier design bases used in matchs. Maybe something here will help you including speed loaders. - http://www.eabco.com/store/ruger-mar...-22/45-pistol/

The larger heavier 1911 in 45acp has more of a push than a sharper snap the 9mm has in the smaller handgun. Just a fact of live . You will get use to it. You also have a shorter sight radius and that can hurt accuracy. Buy some thin grips for the old mans 1911 and go shooting. Sounds like with so many today if something that could be caused by bad ammo comes up , change brands before blaming the handgun.

Remember too that ever firearm company has some problems from time to time so just handing in there and learn your handguns.

geetarman · January 12, 2013, 08:23 PM

Did you clean the gun prior to taking it to the range?

Are you SURE you have the recoil spring in right?

It is a fairly easy thing to reverse the spring and that will cause all kinds of functioning problems.

Some recoil springs are open on both ends but many are closed on one end.

If one end is closed, it needs to go onto the guide rod first.

I bought a new Smith and Wesson 1911E and the owners manual instruction was wrong. I had all kinds of problems until I called the service center and got it right.

AndyWest · January 12, 2013, 08:58 PM

My opinions:

Re: 1911 9mm, it's possible you just got a bad batch of ammo. It's also possible you weren't being stiff enough in the wrist (not the finger). Limp-wristing happens when you're tired or just not focused enough. Happens to me and it's frustrating. But maybe dis and clean the magazines.

Re: Ruger Mark, naah you're not an idiot. The mags are small and Ruger Marks work differently than most centerfire pistols.

Re: 45, maybe the round or the SA match trophy fits you better. Don't question it, just steal your husband's gun and replace the grips.

chris in va · January 13, 2013, 01:02 AM

My GF likes my 45 better, so it's not just you.

BillM · January 13, 2013, 01:53 AM

The gun has performed flawlessly for 400-500 rds.

You switched ammo and it malfunctions.

Try switching back to the ammo that ran. If that
cures the problem, don't buy any mor Fiocchi ammo.

The 22/45 takes a little getting used to. There are
a few things you can do to make it more operator
friendly. My wife's 22/45 has:

Volquartzen trigger kit
Hammer bushing replaced to remove magazine safety
Cocking handle so she can rack the slide easily
Replacement (longer) magazine basepads to make
it easier to seat the magazines--hers are purple.

LuciusSulla · January 13, 2013, 04:03 AM

This company has some interesting upgrades for Rugers.

http://majesticarms.com

May make life easier for you.

Denezin · January 13, 2013, 11:01 AM

Well there are 3 things usually that cause a semi auto to malfunction. 1 is bad magazines 2 is bad ammunition and 3 is the shooter. Now with the evidence given it sounds like you maybe limp wristing. If this is not the case try a replacement mags and different ammo or just different ammo through the same mags. Hope this helps.

buckhorn_cortez · January 13, 2013, 03:32 PM

Quote:

Are you SURE you have the recoil spring in right?

It is a fairly easy thing to reverse the spring and that will cause all kinds of functioning problems.

Not with an EMP. The recoil spring and guide rod are an integrated unit and when you replace the recoil spring you buy a "kit" that is the recoil spring / guide rod as a single unit. The guide rod / spring "kit" can only be oriented one direction.

To the OP. I have used 124 grain Fiocchi ammunition in my EMP and it works reliably. Make sure you are using 124 grain ammunition or 147 grain ammunition until the pistol is broken in a bit. When new, you may find 115 grain ammunition does not cycle the gun properly. Make sure you have a good grip on the pistol and are holding your wrist relatively stiff against the recoil.

JN01 · January 13, 2013, 04:56 PM

Quote:

I had a hard time loading the magazine at the correct angle, figuring out when the magazine was completely seated and sometimes I had a hard time getting the bullets to load into the chamber.

Having the cartridges not properly chamber might be related to the magazine not being fully seated. This seems to be a weak point with the 22/45, but is easily corrected.

You just need a thicker base plate that isn't flush with the bottom of the frame. You can purchase replacements, these for example: http://www.tech-custom.com/, or you can fashion your own from rubber or other material and contact cement them to the bottom of the stock base pads. Be sure to leave a hole in the bottom to access the plunger to disassemble the magazine.

Dashunde · January 13, 2013, 05:20 PM

Quote:

and we used Fiocchi ammo for the first time today. In the past we have used PMC and Magtech. Any ideas what could be causing this many failures?

Seems youve answered your own question.
I'd take it right back and try proven ammo again... it would nag at me for days if I didnt.

It sounds like weak ammo to me - failing to lock back on last round, stovepipes, and your husband with (presumably) stronger/stiffer grip might have been able to channel more of the available recoil back into the slide for better cycling.

Coltman 77 · January 13, 2013, 05:26 PM

I like Fiocchi ammo. I've shot 9mm, .45 acp and .357 magnum and always found it to be full powered and clean shooting.

IMO, it's top quality range and possibly SD ammo.

I'd love to find some more at the moment.

BTW, a well made, quality, reliable sidearm will shoot any ammo you feed it, if it's clean and lubed properly.

Good luck OP.

lilcris · January 13, 2013, 11:28 PM

Thanks, everyone! The range officer thought my gun didn't like the blunt tip of the Fiocchi ammo, or perhaps the fact that it was 115 grain ammo. I'll try something else next time. The gun was newly cleaned and lubed, so that shouldn't be a problem. I'll also work on my technique, as that appears to be a contributing factor.

I will spend more time fiddling with my .22. It really is hard to tell when the magazine is seated properly and I probably didn't quite pull the slide back far enough some of the time. Thanks for the suggestions on some of the aftermarket parts - I'll look into them!

And the real result of all of this is that I now want a full-size 1911 .45. Gah!

Skans · January 15, 2013, 08:27 AM

I tend to shoot well with .45 1911's as well, even though I really prefer 9mm's due to capacity and ease of carrying. Personally, I think most of it has to do with the 1911 style single action trigger. And, a 1911 grip fits me well.

pilpens · January 15, 2013, 09:08 AM

If your set on .45 1911 - go for it.
My GF and I like 1911 in 9mm more than the 45; less felt recoil.
She initially used my Kimber but she likes the STI Trojan FO front sight better. So, now the STI has thin grips and a short trigger.
I still say the pistol is mine. It just does not fit me anymore.
Have fun

Dondor · January 15, 2013, 03:59 PM

Some guns are just plain picky about ammo. Smaller ones seem more so.

Haven't shot that brand of ammo, but from the sound of your problem, that might be the culprit. I'm with everyone else.. clean the gun and go back to what you were using prior to the malfunction and see if that cures it.

January 12, 2013, 06:01 PM	#1
lilcris Member Join Date: September 14, 2012 Location: Portland, OR Posts: 15	Biggest "" range session ever.* I bought a 1911 EMP 9mm last September and have been going to the range every two weeks with it. Besides a recoil spring malfunction (sent off to Springfield to be fixed), the gun has performed almost flawlessly through 400-500 rounds. Today I shot one 50 round box and probably experienced 30-35 total malfunctions. It failed to feed almost every round (the slide would lock back and I'd have to rack again), I had 2-3 stovepipes, and my slide would fail to lock at the end of several clips. Perhaps most annoyingly, my husband experienced far fewer of these problems when he tried my gun. The gun had just been cleaned and we used Fiocchi ammo for the first time today. In the past we have used PMC and Magtech. Any ideas what could be causing this many failures? We also tried out my brand-new Ruger MKIII 22/45. I liked the gun in general, but I was surprised by how cheap the magazine appeared to be. I had a hard time loading the magazine at the correct angle, figuring out when the magazine was completely seated and sometimes I had a hard time getting the bullets to load into the chamber. This makes me feel like an idiot. Are there better aftermarket magazines out there or does it just take more finesse? Finally, I tried my husband's .45 for the first time today (Springfield 1911 Trophy Match). My groupings were far better on the .45, which is a little more powerful than my 9mm and a little too big for my hands, than they have ever been with my 9mm. This seems very very very odd to me. Any idea why I might shoot better with a .45? I would totally steal my husband's gun if the grips weren't so aggressive and uncomfortable. Thanks!

January 12, 2013, 06:29 PM	#3
Vermonter Senior Member Join Date: October 17, 2010 Posts: 962	Diagnosis In general if one person is having an issue with malfunctions in a semi auto and someone else is able to run the same gun with fewer instances of the malfunctions you could be limp wristing. I have no knowledge of your Ruger mags. Regards, Vermonter

January 12, 2013, 08:23 PM	#7
geetarman Senior Member Join Date: November 18, 2009 Location: Arizona Posts: 3,157	Did you clean the gun prior to taking it to the range? Are you SURE you have the recoil spring in right? It is a fairly easy thing to reverse the spring and that will cause all kinds of functioning problems. Some recoil springs are open on both ends but many are closed on one end. If one end is closed, it needs to go onto the guide rod first. I bought a new Smith and Wesson 1911E and the owners manual instruction was wrong. I had all kinds of problems until I called the service center and got it right. __________________ Geetarman Carpe Cerveza

January 12, 2013, 08:58 PM	#8
AndyWest Senior Member Join Date: October 14, 2011 Posts: 627	My opinions: Re: 1911 9mm, it's possible you just got a bad batch of ammo. It's also possible you weren't being stiff enough in the wrist (not the finger). Limp-wristing happens when you're tired or just not focused enough. Happens to me and it's frustrating. But maybe dis and clean the magazines. Re: Ruger Mark, naah you're not an idiot. The mags are small and Ruger Marks work differently than most centerfire pistols. Re: 45, maybe the round or the SA match trophy fits you better. Don't question it, just steal your husband's gun and replace the grips. __________________ Shoot smart. Shoot S-Mart.

January 13, 2013, 05:26 PM	#16
Coltman 77 Senior Member Join Date: October 3, 2009 Location: NC Posts: 1,244	I like Fiocchi ammo. I've shot 9mm, .45 acp and .357 magnum and always found it to be full powered and clean shooting. IMO, it's top quality range and possibly SD ammo. I'd love to find some more at the moment. BTW, a well made, quality, reliable sidearm will shoot any ammo you feed it, if it's clean and lubed properly. Good luck OP. __________________ "A man can be destroyed but not defeated". Ernest Hemingway Protect our 2nd Amendment Rights -- Join the NRA

January 12, 2013, 06:25 PM	#2
lyodbraun Member Join Date: January 4, 2012 Location: Ohio Posts: 90	Prob cause you were using clips instead of magazine's to feed the gun.. those clips will cause all sorts of problems

January 12, 2013, 06:45 PM	#5
berettaprofessor Senior Member Join Date: November 23, 2008 Posts: 1,091	Sounds like the Fiocchi is a little weak for your gun. It worked better with your husband probably because his grip is a little stronger and allowed the weak round to perform at it's maximum in terms of locking the slide back. Try it again with your regular loads. You're shooting better with the 45 likely because a) it's longer-barreled than the EMP, so you have a longer sight radius (more accuracy), and b) it may just fit your hand a little better, gripwise or otherwise.

January 12, 2013, 06:49 PM	#6
kahrguy Senior Member Join Date: October 1, 2012 Posts: 561	For your ruger make your self something like this- http://www.amazon.com/Ruger-Mark-Mag.../dp/B002R1DIQS It will help you to load very easily. There most be a dozen types and makes out there . Ours has no name but must be 25 years old now. The rugers mags my look cheap buy they will work just finework . There not made for speed loading but there are heavier design bases used in matchs. Maybe something here will help you including speed loaders. - http://www.eabco.com/store/ruger-mar...-22/45-pistol/ The larger heavier 1911 in 45acp has more of a push than a sharper snap the 9mm has in the smaller handgun. Just a fact of live . You will get use to it. You also have a shorter sight radius and that can hurt accuracy. Buy some thin grips for the old mans 1911 and go shooting. Sounds like with so many today if something that could be caused by bad ammo comes up , change brands before blaming the handgun. Remember too that ever firearm company has some problems from time to time so just handing in there and learn your handguns.

January 13, 2013, 01:02 AM	#9
chris in va Senior Member Join Date: December 26, 2004 Location: Louisville KY Posts: 13,806	My GF likes my 45 better, so it's not just you.

January 13, 2013, 01:53 AM	#10
BillM Senior Member Join Date: January 20, 2009 Location: Amity Oregon Posts: 791	The gun has performed flawlessly for 400-500 rds. You switched ammo and it malfunctions. Try switching back to the ammo that ran. If that cures the problem, don't buy any mor Fiocchi ammo. The 22/45 takes a little getting used to. There are a few things you can do to make it more operator friendly. My wife's 22/45 has: Volquartzen trigger kit Hammer bushing replaced to remove magazine safety Cocking handle so she can rack the slide easily Replacement (longer) magazine basepads to make it easier to seat the magazines--hers are purple.

January 13, 2013, 04:03 AM	#11
LuciusSulla Junior Member Join Date: October 27, 2012 Posts: 1	This company has some interesting upgrades for Rugers. http://majesticarms.com May make life easier for you.

January 13, 2013, 11:01 AM	#12
Denezin Senior Member Join Date: February 22, 2010 Location: North Carolina Posts: 209	Well there are 3 things usually that cause a semi auto to malfunction. 1 is bad magazines 2 is bad ammunition and 3 is the shooter. Now with the evidence given it sounds like you maybe limp wristing. If this is not the case try a replacement mags and different ammo or just different ammo through the same mags. Hope this helps.

January 13, 2013, 11:28 PM	#17
lilcris Member Join Date: September 14, 2012 Location: Portland, OR Posts: 15	Thanks, everyone! The range officer thought my gun didn't like the blunt tip of the Fiocchi ammo, or perhaps the fact that it was 115 grain ammo. I'll try something else next time. The gun was newly cleaned and lubed, so that shouldn't be a problem. I'll also work on my technique, as that appears to be a contributing factor. I will spend more time fiddling with my .22. It really is hard to tell when the magazine is seated properly and I probably didn't quite pull the slide back far enough some of the time. Thanks for the suggestions on some of the aftermarket parts - I'll look into them! And the real result of all of this is that I now want a full-size 1911 .45. Gah!

January 15, 2013, 08:27 AM	#18
Skans Senior Member Join Date: November 20, 2008 Posts: 11,132	I tend to shoot well with .45 1911's as well, even though I really prefer 9mm's due to capacity and ease of carrying. Personally, I think most of it has to do with the 1911 style single action trigger. And, a 1911 grip fits me well.

January 15, 2013, 09:08 AM	#19
pilpens Senior Member Join Date: April 24, 2008 Location: Ohio Posts: 1,696	If your set on .45 1911 - go for it. My GF and I like 1911 in 9mm more than the 45; less felt recoil. She initially used my Kimber but she likes the STI Trojan FO front sight better. So, now the STI has thin grips and a short trigger. I still say the pistol is mine. It just does not fit me anymore. Have fun

January 15, 2013, 03:59 PM	#20
Dondor Senior Member Join Date: February 23, 2006 Posts: 226	Some guns are just plain picky about ammo. Smaller ones seem more so. Haven't shot that brand of ammo, but from the sound of your problem, that might be the culprit. I'm with everyone else.. clean the gun and go back to what you were using prior to the malfunction and see if that cures it.