winchester model 1894, bullet hole in mag tube

[superpelly]

I have interesting Winchester model 1894 with a bullet hole on the side of the Mag tube. A friend gave me this rifle, we don't know the history of the gun because the person who owned it passed away. There is a tag on the gun that says "old west History" $3000.00 according to serial number it was made in 1906. Any way just thought I would share this unique Winchester.

[eastbank]

may have been a ambush shot as it came from the side,i wonder where the second shot went. eastbank.

[Ibmikey]

Since there is no documentation on the rifle's history I would find a used tube and spring and restore it to shooting condition. Keep the tube for a conversation piece. The

[superpelly]

yeah, probably not a bad idea. I'll try to find one.

Will the Marlin 1894 tube work also, or any other models ?

[olddav]

What are the chances that the barrel is damaged? It looks like the shot impacted the barrel after penetrating the mag tube.

[T. O'Heir]

"...What are the chances that the barrel is damaged?..." Can't imagine any way the tube could take a hit and the barrel not being severely damaged. I'm suspecting that hole isn't the result of a bullet strike. Even with a cast bullet there'd be far more damage.
Parts are fairly easy to come by though. Mag tubes run $22.05 at Gunparts.

[superpelly]

I have looked and looked that really looks like a bullet made that hole. Not sure what else could do that. There is no damage to the barrel. I have looked for a used mag tube with no luck, just the 1/2 sized ones. Did find a place that makes new ones, but it would look kind of awkward on it . Think I'll just leave it and hang it up in the cabin for conversation piece

[mehavey]

Slug the barrel to check for constriction at the suspect point.

Then replace the tube and shoot it.
Don't put that racehorse in the closet.

[T. O'Heir]

"...what else could do that..." A great, big, nail like a RR spike for one. Or the pointy ended auto body work hammer seen here. http://www.princessauto.com/en/detai...et/A-p2990149e
Just can't see there being no other damage if the thing was hit by any kind of bullet. The steel on mag tubes isn't thick and there'd be some kind of tearing of it and damage to where it connects to the receiver. A barrel will not stop a bullet like that anyway. It'd have some kind of damage too.
Gunparts is listing 23 5/8" and 26" pre-64 mag tubes.

[us920669]

There are many possibilities. Bullet may have lost most of its velocity, maybe went through a heavy saddle scabbard. It is odd that there is no bullet metal pressed into the steel around the hole.
Elmer Kieth wrote of being shot in the belly by a 45 LC. It first hit his saddle horn, then a heavy leather gun belt, failed to break the skin but made him so "sick" that he fell from his horse so hard that his buddies left him for dead.
Someone on another forum posted a picture of a 1911 that was hit by a Jap rifle bullet. It failed to pass through, but again, range was unknown.
Interesting relic - can you get an idea of the caliber of whatever hit it?

[James K]

If/when you decide to remove that mag tube, remember that the magazine ring does NOT (repeat, NOT) drive out of a dovetail; it has to be rotated AFTER the tube is removed. A lot of Winchester lever guns have been damaged by folks who didn't remove the ring and tube properly.

Jim

[Boncrayon]

I would think it was a sudden gun fight that was hit by a .45LC with a lucky shot, but that the distance would have lost energy from damaging the barrel. I like the idea of pushing a bullet slug though the barrel so see if there is an aversion in its path.

[superpelly]

Ok, brought the rifle to local gunsmith. There is no damage to Barrel ,he did some type of bore test. He also said that it has not been fired for a long time. Probably the day it got damage. He thinks (about 99% )that it was hit by a small caliber pistol. He siad that he could see lead trails on the metal tube. The back of the Mag tube is split but it did not make a mark on the barrel. He said to leave it has it is and use your imagination on what could of happened !

[James K]

A .45 Colt hit would have flattened that magazine tube. I agree on the small caliber, but think a .22 would have been more likely.

A desperate gun fight? A man holding his empty rifle as a shield in a last hope of saving his life? Maybe.

Or someone fooling with his .22 when it goes off and blows a hole in a rifle sitting in the gun cabinet? Oh, sheesh!

Jim

[Slopemeno]

At the counter at our shop we had an Auto-5 barrel that had been hit with a shot column from about...six inches away. Tight confines in a blind.

That Auto-5 barrel was a banana.

[FrankenMauser]

"...What are the chances that the barrel is damaged?..." Can't imagine any way the tube could take a hit and the barrel not being severely damaged. I'm suspecting that hole isn't the result of a bullet strike. Even with a cast bullet there'd be far more damage.
Parts are fairly easy to come by though. Mag tubes run $22.05 at Gunparts.

With a small caliber, low velocity, lead bullet, that's actually more damage than I would expect. I think it was 'standard velocity' .22 LR at close range.


I've been party to, or the donating party for multiple firearms and firearm parts that were used as targets.
You'd be surprised what most firearms can take before they show real damage.

Grips, stocks, and plastic parts go quickly. But frames, barrels, and substantial steel parts can take much more abuse than you might imagine.

For example:
I have a Yugo 24/47 Mauser barrel sitting about 4 feet from me right now. I removed it from a rifle that was used as a target ...and I plan to use the barrel in the future. It took dozens of hits, at 50-75 yards, from everything ranging from .22 LR to 7.7x58mm Jap, from .243 Win to .30-06, from 7.62x54R to .45 Auto, from 9mm to .44 Mag, and everything in between.

.22 LR and 9mm didn't even hurt the adjustable rear sight, let alone other parts of the barrel. They just left lead and copper smears. And the big boys? Direct hits with jacketed bullets resulted in no detectable damage, anywhere. Even when the chamber area was hit by EIGHT consecutive rounds of 7.7x58mm and at least 6 rounds of .30-06, the only evidence was a few jacket fragments nearby and the collection of lead and copper smears.

The receiver itself took 13 rounds of 7.7x58mm to the same 3-4" area before it cracked on the left side. And then it took about 30 more rounds of 'high powered' rifle and 'magnum' handgun rounds to break a piece off.


And then there's this guy...
It looks pretty bad.
...But that represents about 300 rounds that did almost nothing more than shatter the grips - everything from .22 LR to .44 Mag.
Most of the damage was actually done with .45 Auto running really hot 230 gr FMJ loads at close range (~10 feet). .22 LR, .380 Auto, and .38/.357 with lead bullets really didn't do more than leave lead smears. 9mm and .44 Mag at 35 yards caused some deformation, but the pistol still functioned and I would have felt safe firing it (well... if it wasn't already being used as a target due to being ridiculously unsafe).

[mannyCA]

Very cool! Thanks for posting.

[superpelly]

I took off the tube, forgot to mention when talking with the gunsmith, he wondered if the mag tube was loaded with rounds? Don't know ? I Will take some more pics

[cw308]

At leaset the serial numbers aren't ground off. History, l like my rifles in working order whatever the history. Unless I'm going to hang it on the wall.

[James K]

Straying off topic, but I once saw a BHP that had been taken from a German officer in WWII. The German had fired at Americans from behind a tree, and an American officer had fired back with his pistol, neither one doing any damage. Finally an American spectator at the gunfight, who just happened to be holding a BAR, put a stop to the fun with a few .30 bullets that penetrated the tree, the High Power, and the German, in that order.

One bullet had penetrated the HP just above the grip, where the slide meets the frame, permanently keeping the slide from opening, and destroyed the sear bar, leaving the hammer cocked. There were still three or four rounds in the magazine and there had been an unfired round in the chamber until the veteran drove the firing pin in with a punch and fired it.

Jim

[Guv]

I also think it looks like a 22. This would explain the lack od damage to the barrel. Smells of a couple of young boys with too much time on their hands.
That is one hell of a story James !!

[4V50 Gary]

Do not restore it.

If you want a shooter, get a shooter.

[Erno86]

I second it on "Do not restore it."

It looks like a 30 caliber {or something similar in size} hole from a bullet fired at long range.

[stubbicatt]

I have a soft spot in my heart for old Winchesters. Some say the soft spot is in my head! LOL!

When I look at the quality of the fit and finish of some of my old timers from the 1800s and early 1900s, it is difficult for me to equate these work-a-day rifles from yesteryear with the ubiquitous AR15 of today. But that's what they were, rather simple, unembellished, reliable, accurate enough, mass-produced, working firearms. The filled the role of today's AR15.

OP I hope you enjoy your rifle. IIRC, 1906 was the first year they put the proof mark on the receiver ring and the barrel, near the receiver ring.

[Hawg]

I would fix it and use it. Whatever happened to it is merely speculation with no monetary value.