Purchase a Police Positive Special?

unit 900 · October 29, 2014, 05:23 PM

Purchasing Advice: PPS

A local shop has a 1958 Police Positive Special on consignment. It has a 4"bbl and about 60% of its original bluing. Grips are somewhat worn. Sorry, no pictures available. The barrel crown has a nice ding with some metal peeled back. I will go back with a magnfier and soft lead bullet to see if it affects the exit of the projectile. When the revolver is in lock up with the trigger back and hammer down, it seems pretty solid. As I try to rotate the cylinder, the trigger wants to move a bit, but my OP and Cobra do the same. Assuming that the damage to the crown is cosmetic, is $325 plus tax a reasonable price? Thanks. I have also posted this on another forum, in my search for good advice, Thanks

McShooty · October 29, 2014, 06:35 PM

The police positive special was a good service revolver. I assume it is in .38 Special. Other calibers were offered also, such as .32 Colt New Police (S&W Long). This one sounds rough, especially with a bad ding in the crown. The price is too much IMHO. Colt made more of these than any other model of service revolver.

Jaywalker · October 29, 2014, 09:27 PM

I think it's too high a price with the damage on the crown. That's functional damage, not cosmetic.

somerled · November 7, 2014, 05:46 PM

Maybe I'd pay that much if it was in time, if it ignited primers reliably upon a test fire, and the present owner would sent it to a good smith to get it re-crowned first. There are some great Police Positive Specials out there for not much more.

lamarw · November 7, 2014, 10:16 PM

In my opinion that is a lot of missing bluing for the money. It is more than just holster wear.

CajunBass · November 8, 2014, 05:58 AM

You know, really that's probably not a way out price these days, but I say that only because I don't see much of anything for less, no matter how bad or good or who made it.

Having said that, I'd look for something nicer even if I had to pay more for it. Around here a nice one will be tagged about $375-400.00.

Of course you're in Maryland, and that might make a difference.

Sevens · November 8, 2014, 12:52 PM

Have to agree that price doesn't sound mind blowing to me, and I say this mostly because there are MANY of these out there, not a rare handgun. Nice ones are pretty gorgeous though.

SaxonPig · November 8, 2014, 02:45 PM

Old Colts ooze panache. Price sounds about right to me. Can't comment on the ding to the muzzle without seeing it but I bet it could be stoned out or a smith could run a crowning tool over it and clean it up. Ask for $50 off the price for the repair.

I have one PPS hanging around the house and it's a later one.

McShooty · November 10, 2014, 02:03 PM

That is a very nice looking PPS, but I am looking for some panache oozing out of it in the photo and I can't see any.

Sgt127 · November 11, 2014, 10:30 PM

You think the nickel is hard to photograph, the panache is almost impossible. It's there though.

McShooty · November 12, 2014, 01:47 PM

You are right about that. Maybe it would help to underexpose a bit. You can see a bit of panache in this short cylinder precursor to the Police Positive Special. It is a Police Positive First Model, made in 1914, and was owned by A. E. Bargren, a member of the Rockford, Illinois Police Dept for 50 years, serving as Chief from 1894 to 1940.

That 46 years is thought to be the longest tenure of a police chief in America.

shaunpain · November 12, 2014, 07:37 PM

I have to agree that you won't find one for much less in any condition. If I were you, I'd want to make sure it had original grips, it was in time, and the internals (especially the bolt) were in good condition. I'd want a little more bluing left personally, but I just think the Royal Blue is gorgeous and I wouldn't buy a refinished Colt for any price. Take some pictures!

Bart Noir · November 12, 2014, 07:43 PM

I know that the PP came before the PPS, as the names indicate. But that shorter frame and cylinder just don't seem right

For me, the D-Frame dimensions are defined for all eternity, by the Police Positive Special and Detective Special versions. Those are so "just right".

Saxon, I purchased two of that generation of PPS (blued ones), and they both should never have left the factory. They both would not fire a full cylinder without binding up. One was pristine in finish but shaved jackets off the bullets and jammed up so tight a soft mallet was needed. I do not own that one anymore.

The second one had the cylinder latch so loose in its track, that it would let an edge catch the cartridge rims. I fixed that with my Dremel tool! Yes, I am one of those who Dremeled on a gun. But just this once, I swear.

But now the latch allows the cylinder to turn with cartridges actually in it. I always thought that to be kind of important.

Bart Noir

James K · November 12, 2014, 08:45 PM

The older Colts seem to be held almost as sacred objects by some folks, but Colt goofed, too. The oddest one I can recall was a PPS we got in new from Colt with NO HOLE IN THE BARREL!! Yet it had the serial numbered Colt target with six holes in the black. I wanted to buy it, but my boss insisted on sending it back. I always wondered if Colt had some guy with a hole punch turning out those targets; that target was sure not fired with that gun.

Edited for a correction: The gun was an Official Police, not a PPS.

Jim

October 29, 2014, 05:23 PM	#1
unit 900 Senior Member Join Date: August 16, 2001 Location: Maryland Posts: 130	Purchase a Police Positive Special? Purchasing Advice: PPS A local shop has a 1958 Police Positive Special on consignment. It has a 4"bbl and about 60% of its original bluing. Grips are somewhat worn. Sorry, no pictures available. The barrel crown has a nice ding with some metal peeled back. I will go back with a magnfier and soft lead bullet to see if it affects the exit of the projectile. When the revolver is in lock up with the trigger back and hammer down, it seems pretty solid. As I try to rotate the cylinder, the trigger wants to move a bit, but my OP and Cobra do the same. Assuming that the damage to the crown is cosmetic, is $325 plus tax a reasonable price? Thanks. I have also posted this on another forum, in my search for good advice, Thanks

November 8, 2014, 05:58 AM	#6
CajunBass Senior Member Join Date: May 6, 2005 Location: North Chesterfield, Virginia Posts: 4,767	You know, really that's probably not a way out price these days, but I say that only because I don't see much of anything for less, no matter how bad or good or who made it. Having said that, I'd look for something nicer even if I had to pay more for it. Around here a nice one will be tagged about $375-400.00. Of course you're in Maryland, and that might make a difference. __________________ For God so loved the world, that He gave His only begotten Son, that whoever believes in Him should not perish, but have everlasting life. John 3:16 (NKJV) Last edited by CajunBass; November 8, 2014 at 06:05 AM.

November 8, 2014, 12:52 PM	#7
Sevens Senior Member Join Date: July 28, 2007 Location: Ohio Posts: 11,756	Have to agree that price doesn't sound mind blowing to me, and I say this mostly because there are MANY of these out there, not a rare handgun. Nice ones are pretty gorgeous though. __________________ *Attention Brass rats and other reloaders:* I really need .327 Federal Magnum brass, no lot size too small. Tell me what caliber you need and I'll see what I have to swap. PM me and we'll discuss.

November 12, 2014, 07:43 PM	#13
Bart Noir Senior Member Join Date: August 5, 2000 Location: Puget Sound, USA Posts: 2,215	I know that the PP came before the PPS, as the names indicate. But that shorter frame and cylinder just don't seem right For me, the D-Frame dimensions are defined for all eternity, by the Police Positive Special and Detective Special versions. Those are so "just right". Saxon, I purchased two of that generation of PPS (blued ones), and they both should never have left the factory. They both would not fire a full cylinder without binding up. One was pristine in finish but shaved jackets off the bullets and jammed up so tight a soft mallet was needed. I do not own that one anymore. The second one had the cylinder latch so loose in its track, that it would let an edge catch the cartridge rims. I fixed that with my Dremel tool! Yes, I am one of those who Dremeled on a gun. But just this once, I swear. But now the latch allows the cylinder to turn with cartridges actually in it. I always thought that to be kind of important. Bart Noir __________________ Be of good cheer and mindful of your gun muzzle!

November 12, 2014, 08:45 PM	#14
James K Member In Memoriam Join Date: March 17, 1999 Posts: 24,383	The older Colts seem to be held almost as sacred objects by some folks, but Colt goofed, too. The oddest one I can recall was a PPS we got in new from Colt with NO HOLE IN THE BARREL!! Yet it had the serial numbered Colt target with six holes in the black. I wanted to buy it, but my boss insisted on sending it back. I always wondered if Colt had some guy with a hole punch turning out those targets; that target was sure not fired with that gun. Edited for a correction: The gun was an Official Police, not a PPS. Jim Last edited by James K; November 12, 2014 at 09:01 PM.

October 29, 2014, 06:35 PM	#2
McShooty Senior Member Join Date: January 4, 2012 Location: Northern Missouri Posts: 480	The police positive special was a good service revolver. I assume it is in .38 Special. Other calibers were offered also, such as .32 Colt New Police (S&W Long). This one sounds rough, especially with a bad ding in the crown. The price is too much IMHO. Colt made more of these than any other model of service revolver.

October 29, 2014, 09:27 PM	#3
Jaywalker Senior Member Join Date: November 16, 2001 Location: Texas Posts: 330	I think it's too high a price with the damage on the crown. That's functional damage, not cosmetic.

November 7, 2014, 05:46 PM	#4
somerled Senior Member Join Date: June 11, 2005 Location: eastern Kansas Posts: 603	Maybe I'd pay that much if it was in time, if it ignited primers reliably upon a test fire, and the present owner would sent it to a good smith to get it re-crowned first. There are some great Police Positive Specials out there for not much more.

November 7, 2014, 10:16 PM	#5
lamarw Senior Member Join Date: April 12, 2010 Location: Lake Martin, AL Posts: 3,311	In my opinion that is a lot of missing bluing for the money. It is more than just holster wear.

November 8, 2014, 02:45 PM	#8
SaxonPig Senior Member Join Date: April 24, 2006 Posts: 1,900	Old Colts ooze panache. Price sounds about right to me. Can't comment on the ding to the muzzle without seeing it but I bet it could be stoned out or a smith could run a crowning tool over it and clean it up. Ask for $50 off the price for the repair. I have one PPS hanging around the house and it's a later one.

November 10, 2014, 02:03 PM	#9
McShooty Senior Member Join Date: January 4, 2012 Location: Northern Missouri Posts: 480	That is a very nice looking PPS, but I am looking for some panache oozing out of it in the photo and I can't see any.

November 11, 2014, 10:30 PM	#10
Sgt127 Senior Member Join Date: May 13, 2002 Posts: 1,053	You think the nickel is hard to photograph, the panache is almost impossible. It's there though.

November 12, 2014, 01:47 PM	#11
McShooty Senior Member Join Date: January 4, 2012 Location: Northern Missouri Posts: 480	You are right about that. Maybe it would help to underexpose a bit. You can see a bit of panache in this short cylinder precursor to the Police Positive Special. It is a Police Positive First Model, made in 1914, and was owned by A. E. Bargren, a member of the Rockford, Illinois Police Dept for 50 years, serving as Chief from 1894 to 1940. That 46 years is thought to be the longest tenure of a police chief in America.

November 12, 2014, 07:37 PM	#12
shaunpain Senior Member Join Date: September 12, 2008 Location: Chicago Posts: 854	I have to agree that you won't find one for much less in any condition. If I were you, I'd want to make sure it had original grips, it was in time, and the internals (especially the bolt) were in good condition. I'd want a little more bluing left personally, but I just think the Royal Blue is gorgeous and I wouldn't buy a refinished Colt for any price. Take some pictures!