Sabot slugs vs. regular slugs?

Zoosh · May 15, 2001, 05:13 PM

What are the different purposes for sabot copper slugs vs.
regular lead slugs? I have some of both and have taken
both of them apart to see what's inside, and they
are entirely different, of course. Are the sabot slugs
flatter shooting, deeper penetrating, etc? What would
they be used for?
Thanks

Dave R · May 15, 2001, 05:30 PM

Saboted slugs are designed to be used in rifled barrels. Lead slugs (with rifling on them, like Brenneke's) are designed to be used in smoothbore barrels. Using them in the wrong type barrel yields sub-optimal results.

Dave McC · May 15, 2001, 05:39 PM

Dave R has it right, Zoosh, with few exceptions sabots do ebst in fully rifled bbls, the Brenneke and Forster full bore diameter slugs work best in smoothbores and in rifled choke tubes. And by and large the big lead hunks do their best with fairly open chokes, again with few exceptions.

Use what works best,and find that out by testing for group.
Each shotgun is individual in what works best,and only benchtesting will determine which one to use. The good news, there's no ineffective slugs in 12 through 20 ga, IME, so that worry is eliminated.

We've noted(and mentioned here before that on herd control hunts, we noted slightly longer blood trails with the sabots, but they still did the job.

Zoosh · May 15, 2001, 05:54 PM

Well, I have a smoothbore shotgun, so I guess I have
a big bunch of the wrong kind of slug. Email me
([email protected]) if you are interested in buying
some Federal P151SS 12ga 3" 1oz Hydra-Shok slugs, at
a discounted price.

Dave McC · May 16, 2001, 04:50 AM

Zoosh, the first slug I'd try is the KO Brenneke, partly because of the cheaper price($1.97/5) and partly because they group tightest in my two slug shooters.

However, each shotgun has it's own pick.

CoyDog · May 16, 2001, 11:04 AM

Sabot slugs are designed for use in rifled barrels AND rifled choke tubes. If your shotgun has a screw-in choke system, you can get a rifled tube from Brownells and use the sabots.

Good Shooting, CoyDog

Zoosh · May 16, 2001, 03:38 PM

Thanks for the advice. However, I have a heavily
modified 870, with a Vang Comp barrel, and, more
importantly, ghost ring sights. This means I can't
really swap barrels, because the sights would almost
certainly be wrong, so I can't screw in a rifle choke,
I don't think. I will give Hans a call though and see
if there's a way to do this.
However... if I don't have access to rifle chokes,
and all I have is this smoothbore Vang barrel,
is it safe to shoot sabot slugs through it? Will
accuracy be just slightly worse than with ordinary
lead slugs, or will it be horrible, or what? If it's
the difference between, say, a 2" group and a 4" group,
that's not that big of a deal, and I'll try them out.
Thanks for all the advice. Guys at gun stores don't
know half of what people on this site know.

Dave McC · May 16, 2001, 05:40 PM

Zoosh the loose rule that sabots do best in rifled bbls is just that, a loose rule. Ther's no way to tell how a given load will work with your shotgun w/o range testing.

And, given typical shotgun area hunting ranges, we may be splitting hairs here. A shotgun/slug combo that puts them into 4" at 50 yards is as effective as one that gets groups half that size, IF your typical shot is 35 yards. Mine are..

Kernel · May 17, 2001, 09:45 AM

If you don't have a rifle barrel or choke I'd recommend not shooting sabots. The problem is a non-rifled barrel has no way to impart spin to the projectile. Stabilization will be zero, accuracy beyond 50 yds will be poor, and the bullets will tumble in flight - if you shoot paper targets at 100yds you'll see the keyholeing.

Conventional slugs have grooves in them that are suppose to impart spin. They also have hollow bases that keep them stable and the font end pointed into the wind. Some slugs have attached bases that act as tail fins to impart spin and add stabilization. Sabot projectiles are shaped like an hourglass or like conventional bullets, without spin they're hopelessly unstable.

Shotgun sabots were developed in the '70s and '80s as a way for hunters to shoot flatter trajectories more accurately. Basically with sabots and a rifled barrel you take the average shotgun from a 50yd 3" group to a 125yd 3" group. Sabots exist for one reason - to cleanly harvest deer at "long" range.

Sabots really aren't faster at the muzzle but because they're lighter they don't loose speed as fast and they fly much flatter downrange. This makes it possible to zero at 100 yds, be a few inches low at 125, and a few inches high at 50yds. With a top-of-the-back holdover you can effectively shoot deer sized game out to 150yds. The average hunter with slugs anything past 100yds is almost pure luck - the slugs are so slow and heavy they drop like a rock.

If you're not a hunter who's going to be shooting at these long ranges save your money and buy conventional slugs. They have more energy at close range and in my experience when the shots are well place they're more effective in dropping game. -- Kernel

po boy · May 17, 2001, 06:17 PM

I got a bunch of sabot 12 ga. from BRI whent they first
came out and before they sold the patent to federal or smith
and wesson I don't recall who first but I still use sabots in cyl.bore 20 inch 870 wingmaster with rifle sights shoots all day 4 inch clay birds at 100 yards no problem...your results may vary!!!!!!!!!

Cosmoline · May 18, 2001, 12:27 AM

Keyholing, you say? It seems to me there are a few point-blank situations where that might not be a bad thing.

May 16, 2001, 03:38 PM	#7
Zoosh Member Join Date: February 26, 2001 Location: San Francisco Posts: 30	Coydog... Thanks for the advice. However, I have a heavily modified 870, with a Vang Comp barrel, and, more importantly, ghost ring sights. This means I can't really swap barrels, because the sights would almost certainly be wrong, so I can't screw in a rifle choke, I don't think. I will give Hans a call though and see if there's a way to do this. However... if I don't have access to rifle chokes, and all I have is this smoothbore Vang barrel, is it safe to shoot sabot slugs through it? Will accuracy be just slightly worse than with ordinary lead slugs, or will it be horrible, or what? If it's the difference between, say, a 2" group and a 4" group, that's not that big of a deal, and I'll try them out. Thanks for all the advice. Guys at gun stores don't know half of what people on this site know.

May 15, 2001, 05:13 PM	#1
Zoosh Member Join Date: February 26, 2001 Location: San Francisco Posts: 30	What are the different purposes for sabot copper slugs vs. regular lead slugs? I have some of both and have taken both of them apart to see what's inside, and they are entirely different, of course. Are the sabot slugs flatter shooting, deeper penetrating, etc? What would they be used for? Thanks

May 15, 2001, 05:30 PM	#2
Dave R Senior Member Join Date: January 7, 2000 Location: Idaho Posts: 6,073	Saboted slugs are designed to be used in rifled barrels. Lead slugs (with rifling on them, like Brenneke's) are designed to be used in smoothbore barrels. Using them in the wrong type barrel yields sub-optimal results.

May 15, 2001, 05:39 PM	#3
Dave McC Staff In Memoriam Join Date: October 13, 1999 Location: Columbia, Md, USA Posts: 8,811	Dave R has it right, Zoosh, with few exceptions sabots do ebst in fully rifled bbls, the Brenneke and Forster full bore diameter slugs work best in smoothbores and in rifled choke tubes. And by and large the big lead hunks do their best with fairly open chokes, again with few exceptions. Use what works best,and find that out by testing for group. Each shotgun is individual in what works best,and only benchtesting will determine which one to use. The good news, there's no ineffective slugs in 12 through 20 ga, IME, so that worry is eliminated. We've noted(and mentioned here before that on herd control hunts, we noted slightly longer blood trails with the sabots, but they still did the job.

May 15, 2001, 05:54 PM	#4
Zoosh Member Join Date: February 26, 2001 Location: San Francisco Posts: 30	Well, I have a smoothbore shotgun, so I guess I have a big bunch of the wrong kind of slug. Email me ([email protected]) if you are interested in buying some Federal P151SS 12ga 3" 1oz Hydra-Shok slugs, at a discounted price.

May 16, 2001, 04:50 AM	#5
Dave McC Staff In Memoriam Join Date: October 13, 1999 Location: Columbia, Md, USA Posts: 8,811	Zoosh, the first slug I'd try is the KO Brenneke, partly because of the cheaper price($1.97/5) and partly because they group tightest in my two slug shooters. However, each shotgun has it's own pick.

May 16, 2001, 11:04 AM	#6
CoyDog Senior Member Join Date: December 15, 2000 Location: Wyoming Posts: 163	Sabot slugs are designed for use in rifled barrels AND rifled choke tubes. If your shotgun has a screw-in choke system, you can get a rifled tube from Brownells and use the sabots. Good Shooting, CoyDog

May 16, 2001, 05:40 PM	#8
Dave McC Staff In Memoriam Join Date: October 13, 1999 Location: Columbia, Md, USA Posts: 8,811	Zoosh the loose rule that sabots do best in rifled bbls is just that, a loose rule. Ther's no way to tell how a given load will work with your shotgun w/o range testing. And, given typical shotgun area hunting ranges, we may be splitting hairs here. A shotgun/slug combo that puts them into 4" at 50 yards is as effective as one that gets groups half that size, IF your typical shot is 35 yards. Mine are..

May 17, 2001, 09:45 AM	#9
Kernel Senior Member Join Date: November 21, 1999 Location: Madison, WI.... "78 Square Miles Surrounded by Reality" Posts: 923	If you don't have a rifle barrel or choke I'd recommend not shooting sabots. The problem is a non-rifled barrel has no way to impart spin to the projectile. Stabilization will be zero, accuracy beyond 50 yds will be poor, and the bullets will tumble in flight - if you shoot paper targets at 100yds you'll see the keyholeing. Conventional slugs have grooves in them that are suppose to impart spin. They also have hollow bases that keep them stable and the font end pointed into the wind. Some slugs have attached bases that act as tail fins to impart spin and add stabilization. Sabot projectiles are shaped like an hourglass or like conventional bullets, without spin they're hopelessly unstable. Shotgun sabots were developed in the '70s and '80s as a way for hunters to shoot flatter trajectories more accurately. Basically with sabots and a rifled barrel you take the average shotgun from a 50yd 3" group to a 125yd 3" group. Sabots exist for one reason - to cleanly harvest deer at "long" range. Sabots really aren't faster at the muzzle but because they're lighter they don't loose speed as fast and they fly much flatter downrange. This makes it possible to zero at 100 yds, be a few inches low at 125, and a few inches high at 50yds. With a top-of-the-back holdover you can effectively shoot deer sized game out to 150yds. The average hunter with slugs anything past 100yds is almost pure luck - the slugs are so slow and heavy they drop like a rock. If you're not a hunter who's going to be shooting at these long ranges save your money and buy conventional slugs. They have more energy at close range and in my experience when the shots are well place they're more effective in dropping game. -- Kernel

May 17, 2001, 06:17 PM	#10
po boy Senior Member Join Date: January 30, 2000 Posts: 145	I got a bunch of sabot 12 ga. from BRI whent they first came out and before they sold the patent to federal or smith and wesson I don't recall who first but I still use sabots in cyl.bore 20 inch 870 wingmaster with rifle sights shoots all day 4 inch clay birds at 100 yards no problem...your results may vary!!!!!!!!!

May 18, 2001, 12:27 AM	#11
Cosmoline Senior Member Join Date: March 11, 2000 Posts: 1,080	Keyholing, you say? It seems to me there are a few point-blank situations where that might not be a bad thing.