IPSC / USPSA Production Division

AF Shooter · March 24, 2000, 10:04 PM

Tired of shooting your PDW against all those race guns in the Limited Divison? Like to be classified against folks who shoot a weapon similar to yours? Ever wanted to shoot a revolver in an IPSC match without being stared at? Need a great excuse to go out and buy a new weapon? E-mail your area directors and Mike Voigt and let them know you want the Production and Revolver Divisions on line ASAP. Tell them to dump the politicts and lets turn this back into a practical sport and one that will atract new shooters!
Local clubs; the new division rules are out there on the IPSC website. We can do this from the grass roots up if enough shooters want it to happen.
BTW, it's to bad that the first major competion to be held in the US with the new divisions is going to be sponsered by Slick&Wesson. Maybe we can change that too!

DVC

------------------
Tom Whitman
SSgt, USAF

actionshooter · March 25, 2000, 09:16 AM

In my opinion,we need new shooters and this is a great way to bring them in.

RickB · March 27, 2000, 02:48 PM

I think it is too little, to late. IPSC isn't going to be able to attract more real-gun shooters until they do something about course design; and that will not happen as long as Open is the glamor division. In our Section, we try to enforce 8-round neutrality, provide sufficient distances between shooting boxes to allow for re-loads, etc., but the game is all about running and gunning. If you want to shoot your revolver or carry auto in competition, look into IDPA. I'm not knocking IPSC; I shoot a single stack .45 in Limited (and have no desire to get a hi-cap or a scope), but if you want to use your service/carry weapon in more realistic shooting scenarios, go IDPA.

Covert Mission · March 27, 2000, 09:15 PM

Interesting. I shoot IDPA at a great club in CA, and haven't had the desire to get into the IPSC arms race. I'm moving to MT, where the closest club is an IPSC one, which is just establishing IDPA too.

I was agonizing about what rig to get for IPSC, but I'm gonna stick with my IDPA gear... Glock and 1911, and to heck with the arms race. I'll either shoot limited or production, and shoot it my way (with tactical emphasis) and for fun. If I get lucky and do well, fine.

In the last month, I've shot IDPA, taken a combative pistol class with Gabe Suarez, and shot a pure tactical match, or rather, an exercise. Guess who did worst in the tactical match? The fastest IDPA shooters. They ran right by "bad guy" targets they didn't even see, shot good guys and hostages, used cover poorly, etc. All stuff that will get you dead in the real world. I, a lowly Sharpshooter (borderline expert), finished second, behind a cop, with a Gunsite veteran taking 3rd.

Sorry for the digression, but there's a point. Even with IDPA's defensive orientation, there's a "win, win, win" mindset among many, that teaches people to cut tactical corners. I do this for fun, but want it to be useful if needed. Tactics that are real-world valuable that I can also apply in matches appeal to me. My impression is that IPSC is far from that. Maybe because it's now a sport, rather than a martial art. So, I'll start to shoot IDPA and eventually IPSC with good tactics as a priority, and winning a distant second. imvho.

AF Shooter · March 28, 2000, 12:15 PM

RickB: I agree with your thoughts on IPSC course design. The whole thing has turned into an armed track meet for Hi-Cap space gun shooters. Having said that, for me here in West Texas it's the only game in town. I love to shoot IDPA, but have to drive 4 hours to get to a match.

Covert Mission: IPSC shooting can be an arms race, but here at my local club we have as many or more Limited shooters using "real" guns as we do race-gun shooters. Our Open division always pulls the least number of entries. We have quite a few shooters here in the Texas North section who compete with regular weapons, real holsters, and 10 round magazines. We don't win our classes very often, but you should see the looks we get when we do

My main reason for wanting to push the Production division is that it will allow more folks the chance to get into a sport many of us love, and be competitive, without having to run out and get a new weapon.

------------------
Tom Whitman
SSgt, USAF

Covert Mission · March 28, 2000, 02:11 PM

AF: I hope that's the case at my new club... that Limited is the predominant class. Actually, I don't care either way... I'll just show up and shoot. "Run what ya brung" as street racers say. I'll bet it really ticks off some, when youse guys win with your single stack carry guns. Yeeha! Beware the man with one gun.

PS: your comment "an armed track meet" made me laugh, when I visualized it.

[This message has been edited by Covert Mission (edited March 28, 2000).]

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March 24, 2000, 10:04 PM	#1
AF Shooter Member Join Date: March 24, 2000 Posts: 95	Tired of shooting your PDW against all those race guns in the Limited Divison? Like to be classified against folks who shoot a weapon similar to yours? Ever wanted to shoot a revolver in an IPSC match without being stared at? Need a great excuse to go out and buy a new weapon? E-mail your area directors and Mike Voigt and let them know you want the Production and Revolver Divisions on line ASAP. Tell them to dump the politicts and lets turn this back into a practical sport and one that will atract new shooters! Local clubs; the new division rules are out there on the IPSC website. We can do this from the grass roots up if enough shooters want it to happen. BTW, it's to bad that the first major competion to be held in the US with the new divisions is going to be sponsered by Slick&Wesson. Maybe we can change that too! DVC ------------------ Tom Whitman SSgt, USAF

March 25, 2000, 09:16 AM	#2
actionshooter Member Join Date: January 19, 2000 Posts: 27	In my opinion,we need new shooters and this is a great way to bring them in.

March 27, 2000, 02:48 PM	#3
RickB Senior Member Join Date: March 1, 2000 Location: Boise, ID Posts: 8,517	I think it is too little, to late. IPSC isn't going to be able to attract more real-gun shooters until they do something about course design; and that will not happen as long as Open is the glamor division. In our Section, we try to enforce 8-round neutrality, provide sufficient distances between shooting boxes to allow for re-loads, etc., but the game is all about running and gunning. If you want to shoot your revolver or carry auto in competition, look into IDPA. I'm not knocking IPSC; I shoot a single stack .45 in Limited (and have no desire to get a hi-cap or a scope), but if you want to use your service/carry weapon in more realistic shooting scenarios, go IDPA.

March 27, 2000, 09:15 PM	#4
Covert Mission Senior Member Join Date: April 28, 1999 Location: West of the Pecos Posts: 671	Interesting. I shoot IDPA at a great club in CA, and haven't had the desire to get into the IPSC arms race. I'm moving to MT, where the closest club is an IPSC one, which is just establishing IDPA too. I was agonizing about what rig to get for IPSC, but I'm gonna stick with my IDPA gear... Glock and 1911, and to heck with the arms race. I'll either shoot limited or production, and shoot it my way (with tactical emphasis) and for fun. If I get lucky and do well, fine. In the last month, I've shot IDPA, taken a combative pistol class with Gabe Suarez, and shot a pure tactical match, or rather, an exercise. Guess who did worst in the tactical match? The fastest IDPA shooters. They ran right by "bad guy" targets they didn't even see, shot good guys and hostages, used cover poorly, etc. All stuff that will get you dead in the real world. I, a lowly Sharpshooter (borderline expert), finished second, behind a cop, with a Gunsite veteran taking 3rd. Sorry for the digression, but there's a point. Even with IDPA's defensive orientation, there's a "win, win, win" mindset among many, that teaches people to cut tactical corners. I do this for fun, but want it to be useful if needed. Tactics that are real-world valuable that I can also apply in matches appeal to me. My impression is that IPSC is far from that. Maybe because it's now a sport, rather than a martial art. So, I'll start to shoot IDPA and eventually IPSC with good tactics as a priority, and winning a distant second. imvho.

March 28, 2000, 12:15 PM	#5
AF Shooter Member Join Date: March 24, 2000 Posts: 95	RickB: I agree with your thoughts on IPSC course design. The whole thing has turned into an armed track meet for Hi-Cap space gun shooters. Having said that, for me here in West Texas it's the only game in town. I love to shoot IDPA, but have to drive 4 hours to get to a match. Covert Mission: IPSC shooting can be an arms race, but here at my local club we have as many or more Limited shooters using "real" guns as we do race-gun shooters. Our Open division always pulls the least number of entries. We have quite a few shooters here in the Texas North section who compete with regular weapons, real holsters, and 10 round magazines. We don't win our classes very often, but you should see the looks we get when we do My main reason for wanting to push the Production division is that it will allow more folks the chance to get into a sport many of us love, and be competitive, without having to run out and get a new weapon. ------------------ Tom Whitman SSgt, USAF

March 28, 2000, 02:11 PM	#6
Covert Mission Senior Member Join Date: April 28, 1999 Location: West of the Pecos Posts: 671	AF: I hope that's the case at my new club... that Limited is the predominant class. Actually, I don't care either way... I'll just show up and shoot. "Run what ya brung" as street racers say. I'll bet it really ticks off some, when youse guys win with your single stack carry guns. Yeeha! Beware the man with one gun. PS: your comment "an armed track meet" made me laugh, when I visualized it. [This message has been edited by Covert Mission (edited March 28, 2000).]