In the market for a shotgun, need some advise

[hsr2d2]

Hi All,

I am "The New Guy" here, looks like a great place to be.

Looking to buy a shotgun probably around Father's Day and do have a few questions.

Purpose of this gun will be shooting some skeet with my nephew and possibly for HD. I have no plans at this time for hunting.

I probably going to go for a 12 gauge pump action, the Rem 870 seems to be a popular choice around here, will not exclude other brands/models, though.

Pricerange about $400.

Any recommendations or thoughts? Barrel length, finish, stock?

One more thing, I did notice that wally world does have some of the popular brands/model, are there any differences to the ones bought at other stores?

Thanks,

Hans

[oneounceload]

Since you are talking one gun for both HD and some clays, any of the combos that have a 18 and 28 inch barrel set will work just fine. Remington versus Mossberg is Ford versus Chevy - get the one you like the best

[Armorer]

One major feature that the 870 has over any Mossberg is the Reciever. The 870 reciever is milled from 8 pound block of steel while the Mossberg reciever is aluminum. You cannot wear out an 870, if parts eventually wear out just replace the part. An 870 is more like an old american made muscle car, as long as the engine and body are there you can keep rebuilding it.

[TheKlawMan]

I recently bought an 870 for primarily for HD, but then got interested in shooting clays to the point that I may get something else more suitable for clays.

As for getting into the Mossberg/Remingtpon debate I will not. It is pretty much a matter of personal choice.

Yousaid that you wish to shoot skeet. You may know this already, but skeet is a particular clay target game that involves breaking double birds. That can be done with a pump but it is difficult. There are, however, other clay shooting games that do not ivolve shooting doubles, such as basic Trap, for which a pump works fine.

If you know you wish to shoot trap, you may wish to get a gun that shoots semi authomatic (they call it an auto loader) or an over under. An advantage of an auto loader is that felt recoil is greatly absorbed by cycling systems operated by gas, also but I think less so by interia cycling systems.

Good advice that the guys here gave me before buying my first shotgun (technically not my first as I came here for info on repairing a hundred year old gun) was to shoot before buying if possible. Many shotgun ranges will rent guns at a very reasonable price and often shooters have offered to allow me to try their guns.

One thing about the Remington (or the Mossberg for that matter) the cost isn't going to break the bank. If you don't use it much it is what these guys call a safe queen that you have for HD and can hall out once and while to take to the range or perhaps try your hand at hunting.

As for which barrel to get, I would go with a 28" vent rib that accepts chokes. Later, if you feel you need a short barrel you can pick one up new or used. I am glad to have both, but agree with those that feel you can get by with a long barrel for HD depending on your defense plan.

You may also wish to consider the queen of the 870, if you are willing to spend nearly double, and get a Remington Wingmaster. For that matter, you may want to go for a used Wingmaster, but the basic 870 Express is a good solid shot gun.

Good luck and have fun.

You asked about WalMart guns. WM out here does not carry them, but I do know that some of the Maverick's as well as some of the Remington's made up for certian large retailers such as Big 5 Sporting Goods are not exactly the same as the standard firearm. For instance, the action slide on the B5 isn't the regular Mossberg part, but the one taken from Mossberg's Maverick line. B5 also markets two different Remington Express models that ares slightly different than what Remington calls the 7 round. The Big 5 has the Law Enforcement short forend (some people prefer it but others want the sproting forend) on its 18 1/2" barrel with the 2 round extension. B5 also sells a 20" 8 round model with the sproting forend but it doesn't have a sling swivel stud on its barrel brace. I don't know if these changes are to enable them to say they are not undercutting the exact model on price, when it comes to the Reminton, but the action slide sold on the Mossberg combination package is definitely inferior to the standard slide. (This is not to say that the Maverick two barrel package is not a good value if you prefer a Mossberg over a Reminton.)

Haave I confused things enough?

[oneounceload]

To follow up with TKM's comment - you mention "shooting some skeet" - if you are talking about hand thrown "pasture" clays, that is one thing...............if you are talking about the real game called "Skeet" - that is something altogether different and his comments about shooting the doubles with a pump is wise - you are handicapping yuo0urself and making it harder with a pump

[C0untZer0]

If you can wait till later this year you can pickup the Kel-Tec KSG:







If you take it skeet shooting though people will think yer mental


http://www.keltecweapons.com/news/pr...c-shotgun-ksg/

AND here is an article about SG home defense ammo. Old school conventional wisdom was 00 Buck unless you're worried about over-penetration in which case use #4. But there is a convincing argument from Randy Wakeman here for #1 and #0 Buck:

http://www.chuckhawks.com/home_defense_shotgun_ammo.htm

Here is some interesting info on shotgun wounds at various distances:

http://firearmsid.com/A_distshotpatt.htm

Some pictorials of shot patterns at more than HD range with different chokes and ammo:

http://www.theboxotruth.com/docs/bot45.htm

Also some pattern testing at 7 yards and 15 yards. I don’t know what the layout in your house is like but typical HD distances at 15 – 20 feet, hallways / stairways may vary. In my old house the distance from the formal living room to the family room (where all the home electronics were) was about 35’. It used to be that you could expect buckshot pattern to open up approximately one inch for every yard away from the muzzle. When it exits the muzzle it's almost one inch in diameter. So at 10 feet it might be a 3 1/2" to 4" inch pattern. But cup / no cup, and different performance loads (flight control) change that.

So anyway these links should give you some idea of what your shot pattern would be. When you get your KSG you’ll have to shoot some patterns with it to see (he he he).


http://www.shotgunworld.com/bbs/view...191407&start=0

http://www.shotgunworld.com/bbs/view...p?f=7&t=239195

http://www.myscienceproject.org/shooting.html


Another choice might be the Benelli M4:

http://www.benelliusa.com/shotguns/benelli_m4.php

[C0untZer0]

There is also the Mossberg 930 Field / Security combo.

Interchangeable 18.5 and 28" barrels

[38superhero]

Mossberg....

[theblakester]

+1 to OneOzLead's original response.

Walmart has great prices on new shotguns. The quality is just as good as anywhere else.

[watkins1988]

remington 870 7 shot express. about $320. you wont be disapointed

[zippy13]

Greetings hsr2d2 and welcome aboard.

Do you really mean Skeet as is shoot on an organized Skeet field, or do you mean skeet as a generic term used by those casually shooting clay targets in a stubble field?
__________________________________
Life member National Skeet Shooting Assn.

[BigJimP]

In full disclosure ....I'm anti Wal-Mart for anything ....they kill local small town economies / and don't treat their employees very well ( in my opinion ) ....so I wouldn't buy anything from them ...ever .../ regardless of price ...

However, sometimes the big box retailers - Cabelas, Sportsmans Warehouse, Dicks, etc ... (do offer some guns that are a little different than standard models ...so you do have to be careful ...look at the specs...

In my opinion ...one of the best pump guns on the market is the Browning BPS Hunter model with a 28" barrel. A couple of things I really like about it ...its a very smooth action, very strongly built ...but it has the safety on the top of the tang ...making it very easy to reach even with gloves on vs 870's on trigger guards / they make the stock "cast neutral" so it doesn't favor a rightie or a leftie ...and it ejects out of the bottom ( so a leftie or a rightie can shoot it ) and all the hulls are at your feet.

http://www.browning.com/products/cat...unter-firearms

They're retailing new in box around here for under $ 600. At least check one out before you decide.

[hsr2d2]

First of all, BIG thanks to all the very informative replies! Very helpful.

To clarify a little bit: My nephew (who lost his Daddy a few years ago) has one of those clay target throwers at his G'pas "shooting range" aka backyard. His G'pa and I are trying to fill in a little as a supplemental Dad. So, am I going to shoot skeet? No, it's basically shooting at one clay target at a time, hence a pump will be just fine.

As to homedefense, my primary weapon for that is and will be my Baby Eagle, just like to have the option of having a pump available.

One other question, should I be looking at the option of 2 3/4, 3 and 3 1/2 or will 2 3/4 and 3 just be fine? Is the 3 1/2 basically for magnum?

While Rem and Moss seem to be very popular and recommended, after browsing the local stores a little, a Benelli would also fit my pricing criteria. Any comments on that?

I really appreciate your help.

Thanks,

Hans

[oneounceload]

For what your purposes are, 2-3/4 will be all you need. If it comes able to go to 3" as well, so be it - but firing those can make your ortho surgeon rich later in life

[InTheCountry]

I own a Mossberg 500 love it. Next time I buy a shotgun Im buying a Benelli auto loader. Benelli isnt even close to the 400 dollar range. I got my mossberg for like a 100 or 200 dollars. My friend and I were out shooting one day and he picked up winchester bird shot value packs from wal mart and just about every other shell was getting stuck. That was with his remington 870 express super mag. 12ga. Changed my opinion in the 870.

[BigJimP]

Most shotguns these days are chambered in 3" or 3 1/2" ....you can shoot 2 3/4" or 3" shells in a gun chambered for 3" shells. There are a number of companies that make a variety of 12ga shells, in 3", that are magnums.

3 1/2" chmabered guns ...are really, if ever, needed in waterfowl hunting.

Buying a gun chambered in 3 1/2" is just more money / and you'll probably never need it.

Benelli makes a good pump gun / nothing wrong with them - but Browning BPS is still my first choice for a high end gun at an affordable price / but nothing in general wrong with the 870's either.

[mrsmith1a]

Spam,spam,spam.....

[theblakester]

Benellis are solid. Most shotguns now are made to use 2 3/4 and 3 in shells. I don't think you need a 3 1/2 chamber.

[hsr2d2]

Have not decided yet (taking my time on this) but will go the lgs over the next few days to see about pricing, models available and also to hold and shoulder. This should give me some ideas which one I prefer.

Right now I am leaning towards the 870 and the Nova, seems many people really like those two.

Thanks again for all your input.

Hans

[TheKlawMan]

You didn't mention how old the kid is and if the gun is mainly for him or yourself. With some guns, like the 870 and probably the Benelli and the Mossberg, you might want to get one with a youth or compact stock that can be lenthened with a kit as the kid grows.

[publius]

Tough to beat a 3" 870. Don't need a 3.5. Not even sure they offer a 2.75 any more.

[big al hunter]

The 12 ga. 3 1/2" shell was designed to hold more steel shot. After lead was banned for waterfoul hunting steel shot was the only available non-toxic material. It does not have the same energy as lead and more pellets were needed to effectively kill birds at the same distances previously done with lead. Any pump action stamped for 3 1/2" will shoot 2 3/4 and 3" as well. This does not work in reverse though, do not use 3 1/2" shells in a 3" gun. It may fit but that is very dangerous and creates more pressure than the gun is designed to have in its chamber or barrel. 3 1/2 inch shells have far more recoil than the 2 3/4 inch so unless you feel like bruising your shoulder you more than likely won't need it. Manufacturers assume we all know that we can shoot 2 3/4" shells in a 3" chamber, so some of them have stopped stamping the barrel as 2 3/4 or 3" and have instead only labeled them 3". You will save money and your shoulder by shooting 2 3/4" shells. They will do the job with clays up close in the back yard.

If you ever get the bug to own an auto-loading shotgun the shell length is more critical as some guns will not cycle properly with smaller shells than they are designed for, due to less pressure being generated. Have fun and be safe.

[hsr2d2]

Sorry for not responding sooner, but have been really busy with attending fundraisers, dance recitals, graduation...

In regard to my nephew, he has his own shotgun, so the one I am shopping is going to be for me.

Anyway, I did have a chance to visit some of the local stores, did like the feel of the rem, moss, and the Nova. Also came across a BPS Hunter at academy for $500. Wonderfully crafted, and feels very good and sturdy.

Did some more reading and at this moment have "narrowed" it down to:

Benelli SuperNova
Shoulders well, seems well built, many people seem to like it a lot, and contrary to many, I think it looks cool. Also, very easy to take apart for cleaning.

Mossberg 930
Gets many positive reviews, will check it out some more this weekend.

Rem 870
American made, huge following, shoulders well, however, many people say that craftsmanship has gone pretty bad. When I looked at one at store, the blueing looked very "thin".

Browning BPS Hunter
Shoulders well, smooth action, the craftsmanship seems very good (just look at that blueing, WOW). Not sure where its made. Some say very difficult to take apart.

Soooo, this is where I am at right now. Still open to any comments and suggestions.

Thanks everyone and have great and safe holiday weekend.

Hans

[BigJimP]

Browning BPS is not difficult to fully strip - clean - lube - and reassemble.

Like all guns - there are always a couple of tricks to it ....but its easy to master ....and there are lots of books and DVD's on line, etc to help you out on all guns these days. When I strip my pump guns ( BPS 12ga and a 20ga ) - I drop the trigger group out as a unit ( and while I have some experience taking it fully apart - its isn't something I recommend without experience). For the most part - a Q tip and a little compressed air is all you need to clean the trigger group anyway.

http://thefiringline.com/forums/atta...4&d=1236031619

Here are my BPS Hunter models - I think I bought the 12ga in 1974 / 75 -- and the 20ga a few yrs later maybe 78 ...and they've killed a lot of game birds and thousands of clays. I don't shoot them a lot anymore ...but I'd never sell them - they're just good solid guns.

The other guns on your list are good guns too / remember you can't tell a lot about "Fit" in the store ....you'll have to take them to a pattern board and make sure the stock dimensions "fit" and the gun hits where you are looking. But with minor modifications - any of the guns on your list will probably be fine - but I am biased - and partial to Brownings. All of my primary clays or hunting guns these days are Browning Citori O/U's ( XS Skeet, XT Trap's, etc )...

Both of my BPS's have held up very well ....and the 20ga was the first training gun for both of my boys in the 80's ...so there are a few nicks and scratches on them ( but I don't use them as a spare boat paddle either ...) With some work / it is possible to refinish a high gloss Browning stock - or a satin finish stock like the newer BPS's are coming out with now ...I've just never bothered.

[Dave McC]

Hans, real world complaints about the 870 are far less frequent than those on the Net.Find a good used WM and make it fit. Get a short barrel for HD and deer and a longer one for clays and game. You will have Shotgunning's equivalent to a SAK.

Few people will ride an 870 in to one of the various Clays Halls Of Fame. But,a surprising number of those in those halls own 870s.